General Etiquette > Family and Children

I'd like your opinions on the following situation please

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sammycat:
Fay and Sue are friends who each have a son aged 4. (Fay = Fabio and Sue = Sam )  All 4 people are at Sue's house, along with a mutual 3rd friend, and her 4 year old son.  All 3 boys are playing happily outside, or so we think.  Fabio and Sam have a bit of a love/hate relationship; most days they get on but some days they just don't.  Today they were getting on.  Then Sue's DH comes in to say that Fay's son Fabio is bleeding.  All the mums go outside and sure enough Fabio's lip is bleeding. He's not crying and doesn't seem particularly worried about the blood, but does seem a little shocked.  It turns out that Sam threw a toy at Fabio and that it was unprovoked.  If it had been any child other than Sam there's a 99.9% chance that it was accidental, but based on past behaviour it can only be assumed with Sam that it's 50/50 as to whether it's accidental or deliberate.

Under normal circumstances this is what I see happening:  Sue takes her son over to Fabio to apologise (either he says it or his mother says it on his behalf).  Fay's son accepts the apology and everyone moves on. End of story.  These things happen all the time with kids and there's no point dragging it out.

What if the story ends differently.  Sue makes no attempt to have her son apologise other than saying quietly to him that you don't throw toys. No other acknowldgement that what Sam did was wrong, nor does she seem concerned about Fabio's condition.  Sue then goes back inside.  Fay then tells Sam that he has to apologise to Fabio but Sam refuses and actually sticks his fingers in his ears and alternates between poking out his tongue and saying that he wasn't listening.  Upon going inside to tell Sue of this she flat out refuses to make her son apologise for any of his behavior at all and tries to actually blame Fabio in some twisted way.  

The way she sees it unless her child actually means the apology there is no point in making him say it.  Firstly, she didn't even try and make him say it, and secondly, at that age most children don't really mean or understand an apology but they still say it anyway (or the parent at least apologises to the child or other parent).

Sue and Sam are not particularly liked at the educational centre they all attend, partly because of this sort of attitude (ie. Sam can do no wrong).  Mutual friend stays out of it completely.  What are your thoughts on this?

Gileswench:
I think Sue is doing her son no favors by refusing to teach him even the most basic manners. If I was Fay, I wouldn't let my kid play unsupervised with Sam.

JoyinVirginia:
My opinion: Sam is 4, if he is not firmly corrected and forcefully told to not throw toys and make other kids bleed, he will not take it seriously. Telling him quietly that "we dont throw toys" is meaningless unless backed up with some action on mom's part, like making hiim have a time out, not allowing him to play until he can play nicely, etc  My prediction is that one day one of Sam's playmates will get mad at being hit, and wallop Sam upside the head. I doubt if Sam's mom will like that very much.
Joy in Virginia

Gigi:
What Joy said!!!

sammycat:
That incident happened a couple of years ago now and all the boys have since started school.  Lets just say that Sam is not the most popular boy in the school and his mother is probably the most loathed parent, by both parents and staff.  Actually Sam and Sue have swapped schools this past year so that's 2 schools they're not popular at.  But of course it's always everyone else's fault, as they don't see things the way Sue does, as her way is the only way.  ::)  Oh, and neither Fay nor mutual friend speak to Sue now.

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