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  • November 23, 2017, 11:25:45 AM

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Author Topic: Who is right?  (Read 3653 times)

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Mayadoz

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Who is right?
« on: May 25, 2017, 01:43:40 AM »
This is taken from a Facebook group I'm a member of. Both sides clearly think they are in the right.
I'm fairly sure every invitation I've ever had has specifically stated who it's for, but I also don't think the friend should have assumed they could bring a +1.
(These aren't friends of mine, by the way. I just wondered how eHellions would resolve the situation.)

The original post:
"How many of you wrote individual names on each invite as opposed to writing them on the envelopes? I've got an issue with a guest who didn't have a plus 1 but invited a random person anyway (he doesn't have a partner) and is now being an ******* because I've said at 100 a head it's not on for him to do that. He's said because the two boxes on the invites said " we can make it" & "we cannot make it" that indicated that he has a plus 1."

A message she received from her friend:
"You've properly insulted me now by telling me I should have consulted you before inviting a plus 1. The RSVP clearly confirms that plural were in actual fact being invited.
You don't write names on the envelope, they should be on the actual invitation.In the case of your invites, you didn't identify who you were actually inviting (singular or plural).
In the last two years I've had five wedding invitations and they've all stated name/s on the invite itself. I'm happy to show them to you."

Personally unless this person is a particularly close relative I think I'd be telling him he was no longer welcome at my wedding. She may have committed a faux pas, but presumably it was only his name on the envelope and that doesn't give him the right to impose an additional and unknown guest on the couple.
Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

FauxFoodist

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 01:59:28 AM »
This is taken from a Facebook group I'm a member of. Both sides clearly think they are in the right.
I'm fairly sure every invitation I've ever had has specifically stated who it's for, but I also don't think the friend should have assumed they could bring a +1.
(These aren't friends of mine, by the way. I just wondered how eHellions would resolve the situation.)

The original post:
"How many of you wrote individual names on each invite as opposed to writing them on the envelopes? I've got an issue with a guest who didn't have a plus 1 but invited a random person anyway (he doesn't have a partner) and is now being an ******* because I've said at 100 a head it's not on for him to do that. He's said because the two boxes on the invites said " we can make it" & "we cannot make it" that indicated that he has a plus 1."

A message she received from her friend:
"You've properly insulted me now by telling me I should have consulted you before inviting a plus 1. The RSVP clearly confirms that plural were in actual fact being invited.
You don't write names on the envelope, they should be on the actual invitation.In the case of your invites, you didn't identify who you were actually inviting (singular or plural).
In the last two years I've had five wedding invitations and they've all stated name/s on the invite itself. I'm happy to show them to you."

Personally unless this person is a particularly close relative I think I'd be telling him he was no longer welcome at my wedding. She may have committed a faux pas, but presumably it was only his name on the envelope and that doesn't give him the right to impose an additional and unknown guest on the couple.

While the guest may have a point, he is not right since the bride made it clear he wasn't given a +1.  I understand he misunderstood the invitation, but that still doesn't give him the right to insist on bringing a random uninvited person, especially when the bride clarified that he wasn't given a +1.

sammycat

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 04:01:14 AM »
I've never received an invitation without names on it. If I did, I would assume it had been sent to me in error.

It would be incredibly bizarre to receive an invitation with the space where the guests' name is added being left blank. So in that respect the guest is correct.  The host made a mistake there in not naming the invited guest/s on the invitation. 

The name/s on the envelope don't always match the names on the invitations  Eg. If I'm inviting my cousin, her DH and their six children, the envelope will be addressed to Mr and Mrs Jones, but the invitation will either say the Jones Family, or list out every single member individually.  Alternatively, the envelope could be thrown away, so it's even more imperative that the names are listed on the invitation.

But the guest is completely wrong to assume he can bring a +1 simply because the response card says 'we' instead of 'I'.  That's certainly taking literal meaning to the nth degree.

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 07:20:46 AM by sammycat »

bloo

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 06:55:06 AM »
Well with this invitee, clearly having the name on the invite makes it clear. I've *never* received an invite with our names on the invite itself. Just the envelope.
But ultimately the invitee is in the wrong, as misunderstandings on invites don't allow for witnesses, timelines and corroborating evidence to force an invite. If I was the original poster, I'd say,  "I'm sorry the invite was unclear. I don't need to see your other 5 invitations that were, thanks. Since we're discussing it, I can make it clear. Only you were invited. I don't have space for a plus 1, sorry. Would you still like to come?"

Oh Joy

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 07:14:25 AM »
As far as I'm concerned, they're both wrong.

It sounds like the invitation was addressed properly and the guest misinterpreted it.  It happens.  Where they're wrong is taking it as something to combat over, not as a misunderstanding to work through with consideration.  These are friends, and this is a happy event.  How do they handle misunderstandings with people they don't like in tough circumstances?

Mayadoz

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 07:29:18 AM »
I've never received an invitation without names on it. If I did, I would assume it had been sent to me in error.

It would be incredibly bizarre to receive an invitation with the space where the guests' name is added being left blank. So in that respect the guest is correct.  The host made a mistake there in not naming the invited guest/s on the invitation. 


Edited for clarity.

I'd thought it might be an invitation without a space for names so I never thought of that; I've had those before. But then as far as I recall, our names were still written somewhere on it, even without a dedicated space.

I also agree with Oh Joy - why is this a battleground between friends?

Responses to the poster so far have all told her to either make it clear to the friend he will not be able to bring a guest or uninvite him altogether.
Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

Margo

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 08:16:32 AM »
They are both wrong.

The bride and groom should have made sure that they put the names of the people they were inviting on the invitation. having them only on the envelope is sloppy and lazy, and runs the risk of all sorts of issues. (I would not have predicted this particular situation, but people don't automatically keep envelopes, so I would have thought that things such as people forgetting / not being sure if children were invited would have been a potential issue.)

The guest should have checked before inviting anyone else - it's never OK to assume that you have a plus 1, (Plus, when you open the envelope and realise the bride and groom haven't bothered to personalise the invitation to put your name on it, expecting them to have personalised the RSVP to distinguish between I and We is a stretch!)

They were then both rude to each other, and the bride errs again talking about the cost of the reception.

If I were the guest, I'd not longer want to go to this person's wedding.
If i were the bride or groom, I probably wouldn't want him there any longer.


If I were the bride or groom, I

MurPl1

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 08:26:42 AM »
Please do not insult etiquette from other countries just because it is different.  In the US we do not put names on the invitation and it is proper to put the names of those invited on the envelope. It is not considered sloppy or lazy in this country.

Margo

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 08:46:52 AM »
The post makes clear this is in the UK, where names do go on the invites and it is sloppy and lazy to leave them off. My comment was about this specific situation.

It's very common here to see people critical of things which are perfectly normal in places other than the US, it doesn't mean that they are insulting those other countries or their customs, it simply means they are applying local norms to a local situation.  In the same way, responding to a post about a UK situation and applying UK norms is not an insult to the US or customs there.

SamiHami

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 08:53:47 AM »
The guest is 100% wrong. He said, "You don't write names on the envelope, they should be on the actual invitation." That is wrong. You write the names of the invitees on the envelope. All of the invitations I have ever received have been pre-printed and you do not write on them. You put them in the envelope and mail them.  I have never in my life (and at my age, I've been invited to a lot of weddings and have never seen someone write on the invitation.

This guy is a boor and should be uninvited. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he is being invited to a celebrate a very special moment in someone's life. Dates should never be assumed when it comes to a wedding. If your name is not on the envelope, you are not invited, period. If he wants to go on a date he can do it on his own dime.

ETA: after reading other posts, it appears that in other countries it may be considered appropriate to write names on the invitation itself. I contend, though, that since the wedding is a celebration of the marriage of the happy couple, that he shouldn't be bringing along a random date. If he were in a relation-ship with someone or had a long-term significant other, possibly. But to want to invite a stranger (to the couple) to their wedding? I find it difficult to believe that would be considered appropriate. I still say if he wants to take someone out to an expensive dinner and get all dressed up that is great! But he needs to pay for it himself and not use someone else's life events to entertain his random date.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 09:00:03 AM by SamiHami »

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Hmmmmm

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 10:48:28 AM »
The post makes clear this is in the UK, where names do go on the invites and it is sloppy and lazy to leave them off. My comment was about this specific situation.

It's very common here to see people critical of things which are perfectly normal in places other than the US, it doesn't mean that they are insulting those other countries or their customs, it simply means they are applying local norms to a local situation.  In the same way, responding to a post about a UK situation and applying UK norms is not an insult to the US or customs there.

Just curious.... Do all UK invites have a space for the names of the people being invited? Does someone handwrite them in or are the invites individually printed?.... And what I'm really curious about is what happens if the space is too small to write in all the names? I remember looking at a UK wedding invite website and seeing the line to write in and thought happens if the invite is for more than a couple and includes minor children. There's no way you'd be able to get Mr & Mrs Hmmmmm plus our two kids first names on one line.

DavidH

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 10:49:46 AM »
I think the misunderstanding here is reasonable.  You can hardly address an envelope to someone you know and someone you don't know (the plus 1), so having the invitation say "We" on the RSVP and the envelope just have the person you know's name is unclear.  It's one thing to write Mr. and Mrs. Jones on an envelope or to write Jane Doe and John Green on an envelope, but I can't imagine writing John Green plus 1 on the envelope. 

The right way to have handled it would have been to have gotten in touch with the bride for clarification, but I can see how a person could interpret an RSVP choice of "We" will attend as including the plus 1.  Similarly, it's pretty rude to air this type of thing in public.  A phone call from the bride to clarify immediately on hearing of the issue is much nicer than posting it on Facebook.

Once it's clarified, as the guest, you have two choices, decline or apologize to your plus 1 for the confusion and make other plans with them.

gellchom

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 04:25:40 PM »
Is this guy nuts? 

It's bad enough that he pretended to think that the awkward plural wording (weren't any guests invited alone?) of the response card and the failure to write the guests' names on the invitation in the usual UK fashion (can't see why that would mean anything about a plus one anyway) clearly established that he could bring a date.

But arguing with his friend after she clarified that he was invited alone, as if he could force her to permit him to bring a date because he "proved" that her invitation, properly parsed, entitled him to do so?  Wow.

She shouldn't have argued with him or brought up the cost; she should have just said something like, "Oh, I'm so sorry it wasn't clear [even though it really was], and I really regret the confusion.  But unfortunately we are not able to invite people to bring dates.  I'm looking forward to meeting him/her another time."

I don't know whether it is really considered required to include names on the invitation such that omitting them is considered rude or a faux pas or anything.  But even if it is, this guy's rudeness just leaves anything she did wrong on the invitation in the dust.

Bert

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 04:45:11 PM »
Yeah, this isn't a coupon that he is catching a restaurant on a technicality on to get extra pizza toppings or something.  This is a wedding invite from a friend. 

I live in the US and we listed the names of each person invited on the actual invites.  I understand that etiquette here may say differently, but I'd argue that this confusion is what I foresaw when we decided to break that rule. 

Generally, I think invitees need to be pretty careful when assuming a plus one that the happy couple has never met.  This guy approached the whole thing very clumsily and rude.

Mustard

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Re: Who is right?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 05:08:08 PM »
The post makes clear this is in the UK, where names do go on the invites and it is sloppy and lazy to leave them off. My comment was about this specific situation.

It's very common here to see people critical of things which are perfectly normal in places other than the US, it doesn't mean that they are insulting those other countries or their customs, it simply means they are applying local norms to a local situation.  In the same way, responding to a post about a UK situation and applying UK norms is not an insult to the US or customs there.

Just curious.... Do all UK invites have a space for the names of the people being invited? Does someone handwrite them in or are the invites individually printed?.... And what I'm really curious about is what happens if the space is too small to write in all the names? I remember looking at a UK wedding invite website and seeing the line to write in and thought happens if the invite is for more than a couple and includes minor children. There's no way you'd be able to get Mr & Mrs Hmmmmm plus our two kids first names on one line.

Wedding invitations in the U.K. tend to be printed, with a space of one or two lines for the names of people invited to the wedding. (If my memory serves,  Prince William and Kate Middleton's invitations were the same - although mine must have been lost in the post so never arrived.). It does seem strange to this Brit that the envelope for a U.S. invitation is in some ways more important than the details given on the invitation...