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Author Topic: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid  (Read 4365 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2017, 06:45:37 PM »
gellchom wrote:
Quote
Weddings loom large in emotions and memories,

They also trigger big emotions as well.

I think that your strong reaction here is alerting you to the fact that perhaps you are not really as "ok with it" (it = your DH's family's disparity of treatment).


And I do think, actually, it's really self-indulgent and kind of rude to have a non-binding "ceremony"  and expect people to attend. Especially when it's far away, and there doesn't seem to be a reason like "it's my hometown."

I love attending weddings--but not fake ones. And especially not fake ones that happen before the wedding. A vow renewal can happen after the actual vows, so that there were some vows that can be renewed. But there's no such thing as a renewing a vow you haven't even made yet.

It would have to be some pretty important thing for me to change how I viewed that sort of thing. Like, if there were religious vows that the couple considered so binding, but the country didn't, and you had to do the city hall thing in addition. And even then, that had better be a pretty emotionally important church, and that had better be communicated to me.

Otherwise, yes, I'm going to be judging negatively all over the place.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2017, 04:56:09 AM »
While not objectively rude, I think that inviting your loved ones to a destination "wedding" (that may not even be a proper wedding in the legal sense), then inviting them a gift shower where the only suggested options are expensive kitchenware or cash, does come across as quite materialistic and tacky. I personally wouldn't feel livid, but I would be quite annoyed!

And if I read correctly, this couple is also having various bachelor(ette) events on top of that!!

That said, I'd go along to the shower, but just take a gift that's within your budget. You aren't obliged by etiquette to give them the expensive kitchenware or cash.

Oh, and I also think you only need to give them ONE wedding gift (even if they end up having two ceremonies/receptions).

Zizi-K

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2017, 08:20:33 AM »
While not objectively rude, I think that inviting your loved ones to a destination "wedding" (that may not even be a proper wedding in the legal sense), then inviting them a gift shower where the only suggested options are expensive kitchenware or cash, does come across as quite materialistic and tacky. I personally wouldn't feel livid, but I would be quite annoyed!

And if I read correctly, this couple is also having various bachelor(ette) events on top of that!!

That said, I'd go along to the shower, but just take a gift that's within your budget. You aren't obliged by etiquette to give them the expensive kitchenware or cash.

Oh, and I also think you only need to give them ONE wedding gift (even if they end up having two ceremonies/receptions).

I don't quite understand this. The couple is having all of the normal events associated with a wedding. Bachelor/bachelorette parties, showers, and a ceremony/reception. The fact that they are doing a destination wedding doesn't mean that it somehow becomes inappropriate for them to have the other parts. And of course the OP is invited to all of them. She's the groom's sister's wife, so far as I understood it. It would be extremely odd and rude for her not to be invited.

I have absolutely no opinion about the "real" ceremony versus the civil ceremony. When there are international laws and religious beliefs in the mix, people are just going to do whatever in order to have the ceremony they want and to be legally married where they reside. When they celebrate their anniversary, I'm guessing they'll celebrate it on the day of the ceremony that meant a lot to them, when they said their vows in front of their nearest and dearest, not the day they had to deal with the state bureaucracy to get a marriage license. To get into a tizzy about real and fake ceremonies is missing the point I think.

Is this couple "expecting" too much?? I have no idea, I'm not sure how their expectations have been communicated, or how other family members may be exerting pressure. However, the OP and her DH are adults who are in complete control of their finances and schedule. If it is too much of a burden for them to attend an expensive destination wedding, they could have said no! And they can still politely decline to attend the other events. Yes, I think it is rude to ask for cash for the shower. But it is a shower, and not rude to have a registry. That is the whole point of showers.

mime

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2017, 10:40:48 AM »
Having a destination wedding is fine. Having a shower is fine. Having a bachelorette party is fine. Having a Jack and Jill party is fine (I had to look that one up to see what it was). Having a reception for people who can't make it to the destination wedding is fine. Signing legal paperwork before or after a more meaningful ceremony is fine (in my opinion).

Somewhere it all adds up, though, and the total sum is not fine. Especially when family members feel they can't say "no" to any of these things without causing a family rift.

OP is operating under that threat. As someone earlier pointed out, maybe she isn't as "ok" with this family's attitude as she thinks and the frustration has finally manifested itself in anger at the wedding situation.

They agreed to go to the destination and understood what they were getting into for the wedding itself. They may have been operating under the assumption that when the HC expects people to spend $XXXXX to attend, that they wouldn't put additional financial expectations on them, as a sort of courtesy. That doesn't sound unreasonable.

The decision to go may not have been very easy, either. They may have been right on the edge of everything they were willing to give. Then, they learned about all the other things that were getting added on, with the expectation that they will fully participate. I'm guessing we just saw the straw that broke the camel's back.

I really don't get the impression that OP is livid about a shower and a destination wedding. I think it is the heaping of everything together, including the fact that she and her DH (and maybe her stepsister) are expected to fall in line and always be the givers in this family at any cost.


TurtleDove

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2017, 11:21:32 AM »
“I really don't get the impression that OP is livid about a shower and a destination wedding. I think it is the heaping of everything together, including the fact that she and her DH (and maybe her stepsister) are expected to fall in line and always be the givers in this family at any cost.”

It sounds to me as though this pressure is not necessarily from the HC, though. I think the OP should be honest with her DH and set boundaries for what *she* wants to do. She cannot be guilted into doing anything (nor can the stepsister) without her consent. There may be consequences to setting boundaries, but I find it really strange concerning the step sister in particular. It seems there is a significant level of dysfunction given the OP’s perception that she and her husband are treated differently than the “Golden” family members. It also appears that the OP is not on the same page as her husband. I would start there, and make decisions based on whether and how the OP v. DH dispute is resolved. I think the OP is certainly entitled to be upset, but directing the anger toward the HC is not likely to result in any favorable outcome for the OP with her DH or with her in laws.

Kaypeep

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2017, 12:11:52 PM »
I guess I am missing something. 

This is the OP's husband's brother, as close a relative as you can get.  He is the best man, so presumably they're reasonably close.

The OP says she and her husband can afford the trip for the wedding and are looking forward to it.

She didn't have to go to a bachelorette party as she was out of town.

And now she's invited to a shower.  It doesn't appear to require travel.  What's the big deal about that?  Of course they invited her to the shower.

She says the insert is what put her over the edge, and I certainly agree it's repellent. But it's nothing to be "livid" about and to boycott the shower over.  Just ignore it and buy a gift that your budget permits.  Don't skimp just to make a point, though.  You don't have to spend a lot, but choose with a generous spirit, as you would for a friend, not something intended to look small to prove how inferior their values are.

The "golden boy" theme keeps coming up, too.  I get the feeling that the OP has strong negative feelings about her husband's family -- and I'm not saying they aren't 100% justified!  But I just don't see anything so terrible about the wedding (unless you are just utterly opposed to destination weddings) or shower themselves.

Think very carefully before using your BIL's wedding to try to make a statement or criticism.  Weddings loom large in emotions and memories, and you are going to be family for a very long time. Your husband, not they, will pay for any needless negativity thrown on this wedding.  You will never regret being your best, kindest self.

There's also a Jack and Jill invite, and a second reception in hometown. 
I don't think OP is trying to make a statement or anything, she is just looking for a sounding board to confirm her thoughts:  That this is a lot of overkill and gift-grabbing/greed.  Or maybe not, but their family equates gift giving to love, and the BIL is the GC in the family so it's piled on extra high.

I think OP is fine to decline.  It's clear she and her husband are not playing Keep up with the Joneses, even though they are Joneses. 
I don't think doing so is unkind, either.  Maybe she could reconsider going to the shower and bringing a gift she's comfortable giving, off-registry.  That would be the good thing to do.  However, if she and her DH are going to the Jack and Jill and bringing a gift to that as well, I say she gets a pass on this shower.  I think it IS overkill.  I was a bridesmaid in a wedding where the bride's family was having multiple showers and even a "intimate shower" where we were expected to bring her underwear.  I declined.  I told bride i couldnt' attend all these events. Some were a distance, and money was tight.  I didn't know anyone there besides bride and her sister and mom.  She was fine with it.  I think if OP is not very close with the family and is fine with that level of relationship, skipping this shower is totally cool.

NFPwife

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2017, 12:37:33 PM »
Having a destination wedding is fine. Having a shower is fine. Having a bachelorette party is fine. Having a Jack and Jill party is fine (I had to look that one up to see what it was). Having a reception for people who can't make it to the destination wedding is fine. Signing legal paperwork before or after a more meaningful ceremony is fine (in my opinion).

Somewhere it all adds up, though, and the total sum is not fine. Especially when family members feel they can't say "no" to any of these things without causing a family rift.

OP is operating under that threat. As someone earlier pointed out, maybe she isn't as "ok" with this family's attitude as she thinks and the frustration has finally manifested itself in anger at the wedding situation.

They agreed to go to the destination and understood what they were getting into for the wedding itself. They may have been operating under the assumption that when the HC expects people to spend $XXXXX to attend, that they wouldn't put additional financial expectations on them, as a sort of courtesy. That doesn't sound unreasonable.

The decision to go may not have been very easy, either. They may have been right on the edge of everything they were willing to give. Then, they learned about all the other things that were getting added on, with the expectation that they will fully participate. I'm guessing we just saw the straw that broke the camel's back.

I really don't get the impression that OP is livid about a shower and a destination wedding. I think it is the heaping of everything together, including the fact that she and her DH (and maybe her stepsister) are expected to fall in line and always be the givers in this family at any cost.

I think the bolded would sum it up for me if I were the OP. There's a tipping point and the OP has hit it. Letting off steam here and then deciding where her boundaries are for each individual event and the wedding as a whole makes sense. That's where I'd start, "What's our total budget for this wedding in money? Time? Hassle factor?" Then, I'd evaluate each event in light of those guidelines. Some events might be low cost and a moderate time commitment but the hassle factor is high. Other things are expensive but might have a lower hassle factor --in my mind, the destination wedding falls here if the OP and her husband limit the time devoted to the wedding and make it a vacation. Then anything that's too costly in terms of cash, time, or hassle gets an RSVP of "Sorry, can't make it."

gramma dishes

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2017, 12:42:17 PM »
I think part of the problem is that her husband's entire family is really whooping it up for this wedding with all sorts of additional showers and events beyond the wedding itself.  I do not get the feeling that the same level of either financial or emotional enthusiasm was shown for the OP and her husband's own wedding.  Let's be truthful here.   We all might hate to admit we'd feel this way, but I think many of us would be kind of hurt.

ladyknight1

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2017, 12:57:07 PM »
snip

There's also a Jack and Jill invite, and a second reception in hometown. 
I don't think OP is trying to make a statement or anything, she is just looking for a sounding board to confirm her thoughts:  That this is a lot of overkill and gift-grabbing/greed.  Or maybe not, but their family equates gift giving to love, and the BIL is the GC in the family so it's piled on extra high.

I think OP is fine to decline.  It's clear she and her husband are not playing Keep up with the Joneses, even though they are Joneses. 
I don't think doing so is unkind, either.  Maybe she could reconsider going to the shower and bringing a gift she's comfortable giving, off-registry.  That would be the good thing to do.  However, if she and her DH are going to the Jack and Jill and bringing a gift to that as well, I say she gets a pass on this shower.  I think it IS overkill.
  I was a bridesmaid in a wedding where the bride's family was having multiple showers and even a "intimate shower" where we were expected to bring her underwear.  I declined.  I told bride i couldnt' attend all these events. Some were a distance, and money was tight.  I didn't know anyone there besides bride and her sister and mom.  She was fine with it.  I think if OP is not very close with the family and is fine with that level of relationship, skipping this shower is totally cool.
[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with the bold text. There is a tipping point, there is a level where it becomes too much.

Maybe OP and her DH attend his brother's destination wedding, the local wedding, the reception, and the shower. Where is the line drawn for all of the additional events? It has to be drawn somewhere, and I am fairly confident that OP is not the only one looking at this askance.
“All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost."
-J.R.R Tolkien

gellchom

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2017, 01:01:27 PM »
I think part of the problem is that her husband's entire family is really whooping it up for this wedding with all sorts of additional showers and events beyond the wedding itself.  I do not get the feeling that the same level of either financial or emotional enthusiasm was shown for the OP and her husband's own wedding.  Let's be truthful here.   We all might hate to admit we'd feel this way, but I think many of us would be kind of hurt.

I doubt anyone disagrees with that.  Many of us said we find all this eye-rolling at the very least, and worse, especially given all the context. And the title of the original post is directed to feelings, not actions.

But she still needs to make some decisions.  I agree that one shower gift (Jack and Jill is like a shower, right?) is plenty. 

Overall, I think that TurtleDove's last post gives the wisest advice so far:
Quote
It also appears that the OP is not on the same page as her husband. I would start there, and make decisions based on whether and how the OP v. DH dispute is resolved. I think the OP is certainly entitled to be upset, but directing the anger toward the HC is not likely to result in any favorable outcome for the OP with her DH or with her in laws.

Redneck Gravy

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2017, 01:46:25 PM »
I think part of the problem is that her husband's entire family is really whooping it up for this wedding with all sorts of additional showers and events beyond the wedding itself.  I do not get the feeling that the same level of either financial or emotional enthusiasm was shown for the OP and her husband's own wedding.  Let's be truthful here.   We all might hate to admit we'd feel this way, but I think many of us would be kind of hurt.

Agreed.  And once again when you are not the golden or silver child you resent being treated like you were less. 

Add the additional events the OP is expected to attend (and apparently give until it hurts), the smallest thing might set me off at the point as well.

Livid is just a descriptive word, I don't see it as more than angry used here, not the "most angriest ever" if you KWIM.   


TurtleDove

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2017, 02:28:42 PM »
And once again when you are not the golden or silver child you resent being treated like you were less. 

As an aside, I have known quite a few families in which each child at one point or another thought the other(s) were favored. I am not doubting the OP's perspective here, just pointing out that while the OP may validly feel she has been treated differently, other family members may have a different perspective on the same facts. I get the sense that the DH is interested in moving forward with his family, while the OP is still really hurt and not at a place where she wants to forgive perceived wrongs from the past. That is why I think the OP should first really discuss how she is feeling with her DH. I think it would be really counterproductive to take out her feelings on the HC and drive a wedge between her husband and his family, which would then likely drive a wedge between the OP and her DH.

bah12

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2017, 06:58:31 PM »
I still don't see where the HC is doing anything wrong.  Having a destination wedding does not mean that the other wedding-related activities (showers, bachelor and bachelorette parties, etc) are suddenly inappropriate.  Inviting someone, especially a close family member as the OP, to all the activities is also very appropriate.  Also, most destination weddings that I am aware of, especially when held in another country, require some sort of civil ceremony back "home" in order for the marriage to be legally recognized, so that isn't even something odd, different, or selfish about this situation.  Second receptions at home for those that couldn't attend (and for close members of the family that did attend) the destination wedding are also common.

It doesn't even sound like the HC is the one that is putting all this pressure on family members to attend and spend lots of money.  Aside from registering at an expensive store, they have done nothing else.  The egregious shower invites were produced by the hosts...the IL's and mother of the bride.  The pressure on family members seems to come from FIL.

I get that the OP is frustrated and angry.  I don't even blame her.  It just sounds to me like this isn't about the lavish and selfish ways of the HC, but about how the IL's are treating this wedding. And considering that she is married to the "grey" sheep of the family, this perceived (or even real/actual) inequity may be causing these harsh feelings.  She says it's ok that they have been treated unfairly/differently and that it doesn't bother her or her DH...but, I question if that is true.  It was important enough to mention.  Maybe it hasn't been bothersome until now, or maybe something else is triggering this intense anger at the HC.  I just don't think that the blame, from what we have been told, is the fault of the HC.  IL's probably, someone/thing else possibly, but HC, unlikely.

ladyknight1

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2017, 07:41:47 PM »
Does it really matter if the treatment is harsh enough to cause these feelings? I'm not sure why people don't believe the OP.
“All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost."
-J.R.R Tolkien

NFPwife

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Re: Need advice/someone to talk me down because I'm livid
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2017, 07:49:35 PM »
Does it really matter if the treatment is harsh enough to cause these feelings? I'm not sure why people don't believe the OP.

I think answering the question "Who are you really mad at?" is useful, especially when you're going to be involved with all the players long term. It helps in setting your boundaries,  IMO.