Well that's just how it is.

[supernova]

Flexibility, compromise, understanding the other's POV.  That's what I'm hearing from most of these posts; and they're absolutely correct.

When your little one is new, I should go visit *you* and not plan to stay too long, or worry about getting a little spitup on me.  When your little one is 3 or 4 and adult-oriented fun is called for, once in a while you can get a sitter and we can have cocktails and fancy dinner or political debate or whatever, just like the old days...  and once in a while, I can grab a DVD and some takeout, and come over to your place for a rousing game of Candyland.  I enjoy spending time with my friends, regardless of the venue, because I love my friends.

The OP's "friend" isn't being a friend; she's being a female canine.  "An hour or two isn't worthwhile?"  Sheesh.  Be happy with a phonecall or an email from the parents of a newborn; they've got too dern much to do!  Make a new friend who likes to do the things you used to do with your new-parent friends; be friends with the new parents on new terms that reflect their new lives; and everybody wins--plus you get a new friend!

     - saphie

[supernova]

wetblanket and freaky, I've experienced those things too.  I have "friends" who aren't friends because I refuse to parent and to them parenting is The Only Thing There Is.  (I think Sex and the City coined the term "frenemies?")

I generally let those friendships slide too, because they no longer are willing to see things from my POV.  I'm happy to hear about Junior's progress in school, but I'd also like to talk about my job or my BF or politics or... 

Bottom line:  If your friends disdain you for not doing what they do, no matter what it is--parenting or voting for the ****** party or selling TupperAvonWay or whatever--they aren't really your friends.

     - saphie

ETA:  No offense meant to any home party salespersons, etc.

[hobish]

This is horrible, but in my twenties my friends and I led pretty wild lives, and I've never been a big fan of babies and hate baby showers.

So I was telling one of my guy friends about my friends, a couple, that just announced that they were going to have a baby, I sighed thinking about the shower, the presents, and how I was going to have to pretend I thought the baby was cute. My friend, straight out said, dump them. Startled I asked him to repeat himself. He said, dump them, you're lives are completely different now and they won't want to do anything but deal with the baby, they won't be able to go out and they'll talk about nothing but the baby.  I have to admit I laughed, but it was also kind of true.

Not all friends are life long friends and sometimes you enjoy them while it's both mutually benneficial. I still keep in contact with these friends by the way and it was not nearly as horrible as he said it was going to be, but we will never be the type of friends that we once were.

Of course they weren't any of my best friends, that's different, but rather just people I had enjoyed.

I didn't read the whole thread yet, but i am glad you posted this. I have been reading it thinking " yeah, i am that friend, the one being called clueless & i'm sure selfish is going to surface sometime soon."
You're right to that having a grain of truth. There are peope i am friends with that i didn't see for a good 6 months because they couldn't do anything fun & quite frankly, i don't WANT to understand about breast-feeding & burping & whatever else comes with a baby. I don't like them & i am very uncomfortable being around them. Sometimes the best thing for people to do is part ways if the friendship isn't important enough for either one to make great changes toward keeping it whole. It's just how it is, as the topic suggests.

i do get rankled though, that the person who doesn't want to participate in baby activities is often seen as clueless, selfish, shallow, etc.

[kiero]

Flexibility, compromise, understanding the other's POV.  That's what I'm hearing from most of these posts; and they're absolutely correct.

When your little one is new, I should go visit *you* and not plan to stay too long, or worry about getting a little spitup on me.  When your little one is 3 or 4 and adult-oriented fun is called for, once in a while you can get a sitter and we can have cocktails and fancy dinner or political debate or whatever, just like the old days...  and once in a while, I can grab a DVD and some takeout, and come over to your place for a rousing game of Candyland.  I enjoy spending time with my friends, regardless of the venue, because I love my friends.

The OP's "friend" isn't being a friend; she's being a female canine.  "An hour or two isn't worthwhile?"  Sheesh.  Be happy with a phonecall or an email from the parents of a newborn; they've got too dern much to do!  Make a new friend who likes to do the things you used to do with your new-parent friends; be friends with the new parents on new terms that reflect their new lives; and everybody wins--plus you get a new friend!

     - saphie

I think you've summed this up quite nicely.  relationships change.  And a baby is only little for a while.  Somewhere between 6 months and a year I can see us leaving DD with the grandparents and going out for supper.  And in a year or two - we will probably be able to do a nice event (like a dinner theater thing) which takes a little longer.  And from an adult perspective that's not really that long of a time.  I know that she and I have gone 3 to 6 months without talking (only e-mail) before.  But suddenly 6 weeks is an eternity...  

That being said - I can't wait until I can think about things other than the baby again.  It's hard right now.  It's not like I enjoy the fact that the last time DH and I went out for supper and DD slept through the whole thing then only topic that we ended up talking about was parenting.  But I've been promised that in a while there will be more important things than the frequency and color of DD's poops.  And I will celebrate that day when it comes.  

[freakyfemme]

I see both sides of the issue....of course the baby should be the priority for any new parent, but from reading all those posts, I'm really, REALLY not looking forward to all my friends getting pregnant.  I've already been shunted aside by far too many people in favour of boys, sororities, and the drinking/partying crowd, and I really hate it.  I don't want the same thing to happen again when the first of my friends start having babies.

We didn't try to 'shunt' her aside.  In fact we tried to come up with many different thigns we could all do together.  She just refused to do anything that didn't require leaving DD all evening.  I was even willing to meet her for coffee without DD (she would be with DH) for an hour or two.  But she claimed that it would be too short of a meeting and not worth while.  We go out with out childless (one is childfree) friends all the time.  We just have to go to slightly different places at different times.  

Please don't think that once your friends have kids that you can't do anything with them.  Just be flexable.  After the first few weeks to months (depending on the people) they will love to do things with others again.  And then with some creativity - you can all plan a get together which meets everyones needs and is pleasant.  I should also add that it's really hard to keep track of time in the early weeks.  It really helped when people called us.  I know that some people don't like to call new parents - but it ia far better than waiting for us to call.  

Oh, okay, I wouldn't mind THAT.....I'm perfectly fine with making plans with friends at someone's house (mine, theirs, it doesn't matter).  I just remember one time in particular when one of my friends (whom I hadn't seen in over a year because I'd been away at school) got extremely angry and ended our friendship when I requested that we do something together without her fiance, who I barely knew, because if the fiance came along, it'd feel more like a date for them with me as a third wheel.  I said I'd be willing to get to know the fiance later, but for that time, I wanted to see *her.*  Well, she was absolutely livid, and called me "selfish," and hasn't spoken to me since.  That was about a year and a half ago, and it still hurts.

[NYGirl100]

Oh, okay, I wouldn't mind THAT.....I'm perfectly fine with making plans with friends at someone's house (mine, theirs, it doesn't matter).  I just remember one time in particular when one of my friends (whom I hadn't seen in over a year because I'd been away at school) got extremely angry and ended our friendship when I requested that we do something together without her fiance, who I barely knew, because if the fiance came along, it'd feel more like a date for them with me as a third wheel.  I said I'd be willing to get to know the fiance later, but for that time, I wanted to see *her.*  Well, she was absolutely livid, and called me "selfish," and hasn't spoken to me since.  That was about a year and a half ago, and it still hurts.

Freaky, in this particular case your friend was completely insensitive and you're better off without her.  What you asked for was completely reasonable, and it sounds like she was already insensitive because she treated you like the third wheel when you do go out with her and her fiance. 

[ggreg7]

Your post reminded me of something a friend of mine said to me a long time ago...

The friend was getting married.  I was single at the time.  I called her about a month after the wedding and asked if she wanted to do something.  She said that "married people only did things with other married people."

Not long after that I got pregnant (yes, still single).  She was trying to get pregnant at the time.  After I had the baby she called to see if she could come visit.  It took all my self control not to say "Mommies only do things with other mommies." 

gayle

[hobish]

I had a friend, Rose, that i met in 4th grade & actually managed to stay friends with through high school. We were very close & both a little crazy. At 18 we got an apartment together with another friend of ours ... and then Rose got pregnant. Our lives split entirely after spending nearly every day together for the previous six years.
We gradually parted ways. I continued living the life of an 18 year old. She found a religion. I went to school, met some great people & got in a bad car accident. She got married, moved across the country & had three more kids. After a while there was nothing we had in common; we'd both made such completely different choices in life ... 

...twentysome years later we still don't have a whole lot in common. She still has kids & a husband, i still don't nor want to. She's still religious, i am not. It really doesn't matter. We still talk on the phone at least three times a month or so. We still keep tabs on each other's families. We're going to hang out tomorrow for the first time in about four years.

"How it is," even when people grow apart isn't necessarily so bad, and isn't necessarily permanent. It happens. Don't be too hard on your friend. She probably doesn't understand you right now, either.

[freakyfemme]

Oh, okay, I wouldn't mind THAT.....I'm perfectly fine with making plans with friends at someone's house (mine, theirs, it doesn't matter).  I just remember one time in particular when one of my friends (whom I hadn't seen in over a year because I'd been away at school) got extremely angry and ended our friendship when I requested that we do something together without her fiance, who I barely knew, because if the fiance came along, it'd feel more like a date for them with me as a third wheel.  I said I'd be willing to get to know the fiance later, but for that time, I wanted to see *her.*  Well, she was absolutely livid, and called me "selfish," and hasn't spoken to me since.  That was about a year and a half ago, and it still hurts.

Well, actually, what had happened was, my friend and her fiance had gotten engaged in the winter of my second year of university, while I was away at school, and my friend was suddenly *always* on MSN, wanting to talk about her wonderful fiance, and how happy she was, etc., and how she wanted us to get to know each other.  Fast-forward to the summer, my friend said that we should get together, and to call her, and I did, but it turned out that she hadn't really meant it.....she started ignoring me on MSN, and then I asked her why, and she accused me of being "rude," and said that I was "insensitive" because she'd "been sick for over a year" (this was the first I'd heard of it), and I "didn't understand what it was like to be in love."  I told her that I hadn't seen her in over a year, and I just wanted to spend some time with just her before I got to know her fiance (I'd only met him once), but no, they were a package deal for absolutely EVERYTHING now, and I was in the wrong for not accepting that.
Freaky, in this particular case your friend was completely insensitive and you're better off without her.  What you asked for was completely reasonable, and it sounds like she was already insensitive because she treated you like the third wheel when you do go out with her and her fiance. 

[Twik]

IMHO (and I'm speaking as someone who doesn't have kids), if you "dump" your friends because they start families, you're going to miss a lot. People do come out of the "baby haze" eventually. And babies grow up - last summer I was invited out to tea by a very nice young man, where we discussed Japanese culture and his plans for a new business. He's the son of one of my best friends. If I'd "dumped" her when she was swamped with caring for infants, and the narrow focus that that can bring, I'd now be short two friends.

[Chivewarrior]

Oh, okay, I wouldn't mind THAT.....I'm perfectly fine with making plans with friends at someone's house (mine, theirs, it doesn't matter).  I just remember one time in particular when one of my friends (whom I hadn't seen in over a year because I'd been away at school) got extremely angry and ended our friendship when I requested that we do something together without her fiance, who I barely knew, because if the fiance came along, it'd feel more like a date for them with me as a third wheel.  I said I'd be willing to get to know the fiance later, but for that time, I wanted to see *her.*  Well, she was absolutely livid, and called me "selfish," and hasn't spoken to me since.  That was about a year and a half ago, and it still hurts.

Going by the number of posts you've made about other friends, you seem to have far more than your share of insensitive friends, or live in an area with a high concentration of insensitive people.

[freakyfemme]

Oh, okay, I wouldn't mind THAT.....I'm perfectly fine with making plans with friends at someone's house (mine, theirs, it doesn't matter).  I just remember one time in particular when one of my friends (whom I hadn't seen in over a year because I'd been away at school) got extremely angry and ended our friendship when I requested that we do something together without her fiance, who I barely knew, because if the fiance came along, it'd feel more like a date for them with me as a third wheel.  I said I'd be willing to get to know the fiance later, but for that time, I wanted to see *her.*  Well, she was absolutely livid, and called me "selfish," and hasn't spoken to me since.  That was about a year and a half ago, and it still hurts.

Going by the number of posts you've made about other friends, you seem to have far more than your share of insensitive friends, or live in an area with a high concentration of insensitive people.

Actually, Chive, I've just always tried to be sensitive to *other* people's feelings, sometimes to a fault.  What usually happens is, I'll make a new friend, I'll treat my friend well, and vice versa, until something makes it inconvenient for said friend to reciprocate in kind (a significant other, a sorority, new, cooler friends who drink, or just being "too busy" to honour commitments that they made to me), and I'll let it go for the first few times, but then, at some point, I finally snap and (politely) say that this kind of treatment just won't fly, and at that point, my friend drops me.  You'd think I'd know better by now, and I know *rationally,* but I've never been able to act on it.

[EvilAlice]

Actually, Chive, I've just always tried to be sensitive to *other* people's feelings, sometimes to a fault.  What usually happens is, I'll make a new friend, I'll treat my friend well, and vice versa, until something makes it inconvenient for said friend to reciprocate in kind (a significant other, a sorority, new, cooler friends who drink, or just being "too busy" to honour commitments that they made to me), and I'll let it go for the first few times, but then, at some point, I finally snap and (politely) say that this kind of treatment just won't fly, and at that point, my friend drops me.  You'd think I'd know better by now, and I know *rationally,* but I've never been able to act on it.

I wonder if you're rushing it, or assuming that these other people want friendships, when they really want acquaintance-ships?  I'm not saying this to criticize but to give you another perspective.  It sounds terrible, but I have all the FRIEND friends I really need in my life.  Now, if I've known someone as an acquaintance, for a pretty long time, it sometimes, pretty rarely, moves on over time to a true friend level- the kind of person I feel I need to be "there" for when they need something, and expect to be there for me.  But you need to know the other person for a pretty long time in my experience before you have a good feel for if this is something you want, AND something they want- then there's the whole issue of if you really click on that level.  I'm not unfriendly and have lots of acquaintances, people I've gone to school with, worked with, and got along famously with, but then circumstances change and we move on. 

I'm much much older than you, and this has worked for me pretty well.  Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone you're friendly with has to be your really close friend.  Some people just aren't up for the job for whatever reason, and you'll grow apart in time anyway.  Work on being a good casual friend and don't worry about how long it lasts or how deep the friendship is.  You're obviously a very fun and thoughtful person.  Over time, the right ones will develop into true friendships so you'll have that.  In the meantime you can enjoy hanging out with people you are simply friendly with, and who will disappear as your circumstances change.

Sorry, got in a preachy mode there for a minute.  But this seems to hurt you and I hate to see that.  Quality is way more important than quantity in friendships.  I'd rather have one person who I wouldn't hesitate to ask a huge imposting favor of, then 100 people who would be ready to go to the movies with me at the drop of a hat.  And to be a real true friend is a lot of work because you HAVE to be there for each other no matter what.  If people are telling you they aren't ready for that with you, it's not necessarily a reflection on you.  We have a limited amount of time and emotional energy, and need to save it for the things that are truly important to us.

Sorry for the lecture- eek.  Don't know what got into me.

[freakyfemme]

Actually, Chive, I've just always tried to be sensitive to *other* people's feelings, sometimes to a fault.  What usually happens is, I'll make a new friend, I'll treat my friend well, and vice versa, until something makes it inconvenient for said friend to reciprocate in kind (a significant other, a sorority, new, cooler friends who drink, or just being "too busy" to honour commitments that they made to me), and I'll let it go for the first few times, but then, at some point, I finally snap and (politely) say that this kind of treatment just won't fly, and at that point, my friend drops me.  You'd think I'd know better by now, and I know *rationally,* but I've never been able to act on it.

I wonder if you're rushing it, or assuming that these other people want friendships, when they really want acquaintance-ships?  I'm not saying this to criticize but to give you another perspective.  It sounds terrible, but I have all the FRIEND friends I really need in my life.  Now, if I've known someone as an acquaintance, for a pretty long time, it sometimes, pretty rarely, moves on over time to a true friend level- the kind of person I feel I need to be "there" for when they need something, and expect to be there for me.  But you need to know the other person for a pretty long time in my experience before you have a good feel for if this is something you want, AND something they want- then there's the whole issue of if you really click on that level.  I'm not unfriendly and have lots of acquaintances, people I've gone to school with, worked with, and got along famously with, but then circumstances change and we move on. 

I'm much much older than you, and this has worked for me pretty well.  Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone you're friendly with has to be your really close friend.  Some people just aren't up for the job for whatever reason, and you'll grow apart in time anyway.  Work on being a good casual friend and don't worry about how long it lasts or how deep the friendship is.  You're obviously a very fun and thoughtful person.  Over time, the right ones will develop into true friendships so you'll have that.  In the meantime you can enjoy hanging out with people you are simply friendly with, and who will disappear as your circumstances change.

Sorry, got in a preachy mode there for a minute.  But this seems to hurt you and I hate to see that.  Quality is way more important than quantity in friendships.  I'd rather have one person who I wouldn't hesitate to ask a huge imposting favor of, then 100 people who would be ready to go to the movies with me at the drop of a hat.  And to be a real true friend is a lot of work because you HAVE to be there for each other no matter what.  If people are telling you they aren't ready for that with you, it's not necessarily a reflection on you.  We have a limited amount of time and emotional energy, and need to save it for the things that are truly important to us.

Sorry for the lecture- eek.  Don't know what got into me.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that a lot of the time, this pattern takes place over several years, after which my friend and I have mutually established that we *are* close.