Author Topic: A little care with this one  (Read 16350 times)

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Bob Ducca

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2007, 03:24:57 PM »
Vegemite girl is right- that is how it is intended to be used.

FWIW, it always annoys me when people in threads are employing PA tactics to shut the thread down or stop a branch-off discussion. 

The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

The "I wonder when the mods will finally close this" posts also bother me- if you think it should be shut down, why are you still posting in it?  Report it to the mods if it is a problem, stay away if it isn't...

I think when people actually misuse the bean dip phrase it can come across as rude or snarky, but it can be done in a good way.  I remember a thread last year in which we were discussing some unusual spelling choices for baby names.  One poster mentioned that she had chosen a name for her child with an unusual spelling, and she was instantly inundated with posts berating her for her choice, etc.  She responded completely graciously at first, but then it got to be too much.  The "bean dip" phrase there would have been totally appropriate, because people repeating the same point again and again, without bothering to read the whole thread or look at other responses, becomes very tiresome and the bean dip phrase works well.

As in life, you have to judge what is going on.  Personally, I would be very careful about using the bean dip line unless I was the one under attack, but if it was a discussion involving two or three different posters then I could see any one of them throwing it out to defuse the situation.

DottyG

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2007, 03:31:13 PM »
I may have the wrong end of the stick, but I thought - IRL conversations, anyway - the bean dip comment wasn't a way of saying "let's all cool down" but rather putting a definate end to a line of enquiry, such as:

Inquisitive A: "Why haven't you lost weight/put your child in daycare/gotten married?"
Harrassed B: "Sorry, I don't want to discuss this."
Inquisitive A: "But you really should... (etc etc)"
Harrassed B: 'No, I'm sorry, I'm not going to discuss that with you."
Inquisitive A: "But you have to lose weight/put your child in daycare/get married!"
Harrassed B: "I don't want to discuss this. Here - have you tried the bean dip?"

In other words, I always thought it was simply deflection onto another topic, rather than an actual word-for-word line to be used. (As someone else said, it sounds silly when there actually is no bean dip...)

In that way, I agree that it's a useful tool.


blahblahblah

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2007, 03:39:02 PM »
The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

I agree that the majority of "I'm bowing out" posts are annoying (they are a milder form of the flouncing "goodbye cruel world" posts, only not as melodramatic, IMO). However, I have read a few heated threads where a poster just stopped responding for whatever reason, no explanation given. Other posters would then say things like, "Hey, so-and-so hasn't responded to our rebuttals for several days," and they would insinuate that so-and-so was upset that the thread wasn't going in her favor and more stuff along those lines. In that case, I can't blame a poster for wanting to say definitively, "You all keep talking if you want to, but I'm out." It keeps people from making bad assumptions about why the poster is no longer writing in that thread.

Bob Ducca

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2007, 03:44:09 PM »
The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

I agree that the majority of "I'm bowing out" posts are annoying (they are a milder form of the flouncing "goodbye cruel world" posts, only not as melodramatic, IMO). However, I have read a few heated threads where a poster just stopped responding for whatever reason, no explanation given. Other posters would then say things like, "Hey, so-and-so hasn't responded to our rebuttals for several days," and they would insinuate that so-and-so was upset that the thread wasn't going in her favor and more stuff along those lines. In that case, I can't blame a poster for wanting to say definitively, "You all keep talking if you want to, but I'm out." It keeps people from making bad assumptions about why the poster is no longer writing in that thread.

I agree with you there- in that case, I might post a brief, "We'll never agree, so I have stopped responding" response, but without denigrating the other posters.

DottyG

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2007, 04:08:29 PM »
The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

I agree that the majority of "I'm bowing out" posts are annoying (they are a milder form of the flouncing "goodbye cruel world" posts, only not as melodramatic, IMO). However, I have read a few heated threads where a poster just stopped responding for whatever reason, no explanation given. Other posters would then say things like, "Hey, so-and-so hasn't responded to our rebuttals for several days," and they would insinuate that so-and-so was upset that the thread wasn't going in her favor and more stuff along those lines. In that case, I can't blame a poster for wanting to say definitively, "You all keep talking if you want to, but I'm out." It keeps people from making bad assumptions about why the poster is no longer writing in that thread.

I agree with you there- in that case, I might post a brief, "We'll never agree, so I have stopped responding" response, but without denigrating the other posters.

As a quick explanation of something that might fit into the "I'm leaving" category....A few days ago, I was involved in a thread and did say that I was going home.  It wasn't a commentary on the person I was talking to but was just an explanation that I wasn't going to be able to post again that evening, as I was going home.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being seen as a "flouncer"! :D


blahblahblah

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2007, 04:14:59 PM »
A few days ago, I was involved in a thread and did say that I was going home.  It wasn't a commentary on the person I was talking to but was just an explanation that I wasn't going to be able to post again that evening, as I was going home.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being seen as a "flouncer"! :D

LOL…I don't think you have to worry. Most people can probably tell the difference between a legit "hey, everyone, I'm going home so I can't post anymore right now" and…the other kind. The attitude usually bleeds through in the latter.

jimithing

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2007, 04:19:43 PM »
The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

I agree that the majority of "I'm bowing out" posts are annoying (they are a milder form of the flouncing "goodbye cruel world" posts, only not as melodramatic, IMO). However, I have read a few heated threads where a poster just stopped responding for whatever reason, no explanation given. Other posters would then say things like, "Hey, so-and-so hasn't responded to our rebuttals for several days," and they would insinuate that so-and-so was upset that the thread wasn't going in her favor and more stuff along those lines. In that case, I can't blame a poster for wanting to say definitively, "You all keep talking if you want to, but I'm out." It keeps people from making bad assumptions about why the poster is no longer writing in that thread.

I agree with you there- in that case, I might post a brief, "We'll never agree, so I have stopped responding" response, but without denigrating the other posters.

As a quick explanation of something that might fit into the "I'm leaving" category....A few days ago, I was involved in a thread and did say that I was going home.  It wasn't a commentary on the person I was talking to but was just an explanation that I wasn't going to be able to post again that evening, as I was going home.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being seen as a "flouncer"! :D



Dotty, I completely saw you as a flouncer when you did that to me! I am completely kidding.  :)

I have sometimes chosen not to respond when threads have gotten particularly heated.  There is a difference between not agreeing with me, as is evidenced on this thread, and being rude and demanding.  If I have said my piece, and feel like we are going around in circles, I will bow out.

mindibrad

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2007, 07:27:52 PM »
I guess i don't understand how offering bean dip is any different than saying, "So, how 'bout those Mets?"  For me, they are one and the same.

Actually, I think that that line often comes across as condescending/patronizing as well. I'm equal opportunity that way. ;D

Gonna agree with you on that one.  Both come across as snarky and (as another poster said above) "superior to you" sounding.



Does it help if I mention that, when I said "have you tried the dip?" to my friend who was trying to draw me in to an argument....that I WAS actually shovelling carrots & dip in to my mouth?

Is it a little less snarky in that instance?

freakyfemme

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2007, 12:22:16 AM »
What if you're ACTUALLY at a party, where there REALLY IS bean dip, and, fascinating as you find the political debate, you just want to let everyone know that they should really try the bean dip before it's all gone? ;)

Issa

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2007, 02:09:34 AM »
Vegemite girl is right- that is how it is intended to be used.

FWIW, it always annoys me when people in threads are employing PA tactics to shut the thread down or stop a branch-off discussion. 

The "I'm bowing out" posts bother me a bit- if you're so disgusted with the thread, stop reading or posting, but don't detail in your post why the rest of us are so rude/disgusting/unfit to breathe and then pronounce that you are leaving...it comes off kind of badly. 

The "I wonder when the mods will finally close this" posts also bother me- if you think it should be shut down, why are you still posting in it?  Report it to the mods if it is a problem, stay away if it isn't...

I think when people actually misuse the bean dip phrase it can come across as rude or snarky, but it can be done in a good way.  I remember a thread last year in which we were discussing some unusual spelling choices for baby names.  One poster mentioned that she had chosen a name for her child with an unusual spelling, and she was instantly inundated with posts berating her for her choice, etc.  She responded completely graciously at first, but then it got to be too much.  The "bean dip" phrase there would have been totally appropriate, because people repeating the same point again and again, without bothering to read the whole thread or look at other responses, becomes very tiresome and the bean dip phrase works well.

As in life, you have to judge what is going on.  Personally, I would be very careful about using the bean dip line unless I was the one under attack, but if it was a discussion involving two or three different posters then I could see any one of them throwing it out to defuse the situation.

The "I'm out of this discussion" thing doesn't bother me too much, because I don't see it as a way of saying "Goodbye Cruel Forum", I see it along the lines of "Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree, and I don't see any point in continuing because we're going in circles." Sometimes a discussion gets too tense, or a little too personal, it can also be a way of saying "Ok, I'm not going to be able to handle this politely, so I'm stepping out."

I agree with the bean-dip thing potentially becoming snarky, but that it can also be quite useful. I also agree with the posters who have said maybe it's better to be more straightforward. I do remember the thread you mention, and it did bother me quite a bit. I think when a thread gets that long, posters don't read all the pages, and repeat themselves. In that situation though, I don't recall if a mod was notified, but I do remember some posters saying something along the lines of "Let's lay off guys."

IRL I think the bean-dip thing is a way of humorously chilling out a tense situation. Sometimes it may backfire, sometimes it's better to be straightforward, but sometimes I think it works. I remember using it once myself - some close friends and I were having a political discussion, and things got very heated up and tense between two of them. I remember saying something that had NOTHING to do with the subject at hand, like "Sooo guys, read any good books lately." It was an obvious way of implying "Ok, this is getting too tense, maybe we need to relax a little and possibly change the subject." As I remember, after a moment, saying that made them stop for a second, and laugh at themselves, and then try to continue the discussion, albeit in a less angry way.

Bob Ducca

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2007, 08:28:52 AM »
Quote
The "I'm out of this discussion" thing doesn't bother me too much, because I don't see it as a way of saying "Goodbye Cruel Forum", I see it along the lines of "Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree, and I don't see any point in continuing because we're going in circles." Sometimes a discussion gets too tense, or a little too personal, it can also be a way of saying "Ok, I'm not going to be able to handle this politely, so I'm stepping out."

If all the poster said was, "I'm out of this discussion," or, "I'm bowing out, since we'll never agree," that would be fine.  What bothers me is when something like this is posted (made up/paraphrased by me):

"I'm out.  I can't believe all of you don't agree with me!  It is completely clear that purple dinosaurs were, in fact, the dominant species of life on our planet until 1833, and anyone who thinks differently should be sterilized and have their children taken away.  All of you who are advocating that they never existed are placing the OP in grave harm when the dinosaurs come back and rule as our masters."

Okay, that one was over the top, but some of the "I'm out" posts seem to be more a way to try and shame other posters rather than stop a heated turn, and those are the ones I was referring to.  ;)

Tagy

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2007, 01:04:03 PM »
Personally, I'm not in favor of this one on the whole.  There are some times when it might help.  But, more often than not, you (the generic you) really come across as being high-handed and rude.  Especially in a written forum where there isn't a way to see the expression on your face that tones this comment down and makes it not so abrupt.

I agree with this.  While the bean dip comment can be a great diffuser, it can also come off as quite highhanded.

Austin Annie

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2007, 04:14:51 PM »
Here's my 2 cents (as a longtime lurker but only occasional poster, I'm less of a "newbie" than my description implies):
If you're actually at a party and someone is asking you questions that you're uncomfortable answering, "have you tried the [food being served at party]?" is far more polite than "for the last time, I am not pregnant yet, mind your dang business."  Just as previous posters have said.
It might be infuriating if you use the line on someone you were voluntarily engaging in debate with, or to two people who are voluntarily debating in a manner that makes you uncomfortable--so, indeed have "a little care with this one."
Now, goodbye cruel thread, I'm off to read other posts. flounces off

Elle

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2007, 05:15:27 PM »
I'm a little worried now . . .  :-[

A little while back I posted a topic and after the matter was resolved (IRL not on the board) I basically said I was bowing out of the discussion. I said something along the lines of 'I was feeling snarky and didn't want to antagonize anyone. I considered the matter resolved but the forum was free to continue debating amongst themselves.'

Was I rude or melodramatic or flouncy? Honestly I don't know! I was trying to bow out of the conversation gracefully before I DID say something snarky or rude.

artk2002

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Re: A little care with this one
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2007, 08:49:56 PM »
I really can't stand the random "have you tried the bean dip?" in the middle of a debate because its so blantantly OBVIOUS and smacks of superiority. Why do you get to determine that this conversation needs to stop? In real life, no one would randomly say "Have you tried the bean dip" unless there was.... bean dip. What started out as a suggestion and a TACTIC has become this trite response that personally, I just roll my eyes at and ignore. In real life, you would gently steer conversation based on what is actually at hand. The above scenario with the dogs was perfect. You nuetralize the situation without coming across as condescending.

I don't take it as a way to get the conversation to stop, completely.  Just as a reminder to breathe and that it's just a topic of discussion, not a life or death matter.

Because it's what we call a "polite fiction."  It's a way of redirecting without being confrontational.
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