Maybe You Want to LEARN How to Use it BEFORE Listing It On Your Resume (update)

[Yarnspinner]

I'm willing to bet the other librarians have dealt with many patrons like this one.

V has been driving the staff and I crazy for weeks now (granted, it is a very short drive and we are all to eager to get in the car).  V is unemployed and sending resumes everywhere that has a job opening.  Trouble is, she is unqualified, from what we can tell, for almost everything. 

Every time she comes in, it's a whole new resume that she's got typed up.  Her "objective" section is excellent, even though "objective" sections are no longer requisite for most employers.  I would hire the person described in the objective area...only, it isn't HER. 

She has described a self-starting, problem solving paragon who knows the ins and outs of business.  The rest of her resume (the experience section) describes someone who has spent her life stocking shelves, doing inventory and being told what to do.  (And I am not putting down this kind of work...I did it for years while I was going to college).  But you can't use that kind of experience and expect you will be hired for a position as a personal secretary or a teacher, which is what she seems to be applying for.

That said, it was my turn today to help V print her resume.  Keep in mind, she's been coming here now for weeks.  She uses the computer every day to bring up her resume.  Then she has US changing fonts and letter sizes back and forth.  Today she decided that the arial script face she was using didn't look "fancy" enough.  She wanted "fancier".  So I showed her Times New Roman, which is about as fancy as one ought to get on a resume (I mean, I wouldn't use things like the "Algerian" style or "Victorian FairyScroll").  Oh that looked excellent.  Print ten copies.  (At no time, notice, has she actually TOUCHED the computer.)
I printed the ten copies, she looks at it and decides it is boring and she wants the arial because it looks "clean and professional."  So we print out 10 of those.  How does she log out?  We log her out.

Will it surprise you all to know that one of the skills she listed on her resume suggests that she is able to successfully use computers and knows the ins and  outs of same?

I see this all the time.  I once helped a girl figure out how to change things, delete stuff, showed her which buttons to hit and so on...she kept saying she had no clue how computers worked.  Her resume clearly stated that she had a background as a computer tech and new how to trouble shoot Microsoft Word.  (ANd she wasn't writing this for a friend--it was her name on the resume). 

I don't get it.  Don't they realize that if the employer realizes they can't do this they aren't going to get a second chance for less skilled labor?  I know desperation forces us to do desperate things, but surely people realize that if they can't do what they say they are going to be out again, looking for another job and asking me to help them process their resumes. 

Ah well, have to book.  Lunch is over and I'm sure there's another fake computer tech out there in need of help....

Lily Who Is Rapidly Losing Sympathy

[NOVA Lady]

Well this is certainly going to be an awkward situation for if she gets an interview or gets hired. I have 2 stories in that respect on the hiring and the applying side, and neither is fun.

Applying...

My corporate recruitor sent me on an interview for a very desirable governmet contractor. She told me I was 100% qualified for the position, so i confidently went to the interview. The interview was going great and we just just about to stand up, shake hands and leave it off when one of the interviewers offhandly asked me, "I see you've never worked for the government or a contractor before, where did you pick up XYZ Accounting program?" and I just did not know what to say, I had never heard of the program and certainly didn't know how to use it. So I said the same to the effect. Eventually it was cleared up that *I* had no idea it was needed and that my recruitor had told them I was proficient in it (when I confronted her later she told me she figured all accounting software was the same, thats when I switched recruitors!) without my knowledge. I apoligized for wasting their time and they let me know that I really was very qualified and if they weren't able to find someone who did know the program they would be back in touch. But it was embarassing.

So, unless these people are also willing to lie in the interview they are setting themselves up for a not so fun interview.

On the Hiring side:

We needed to hire someone that knew how to do some specific thing for us. The person said they knew how to do it, and had experience that indicated that this was the truth. In reality he did not even have the most basic understanding of the procedure/software/etc and was fired within 3 weeks. So, whats the point? If someone wants to hire someone they dont have to train to do something they wont keep these people around and it will make their work history look even worse.

[Sophia]

A friend of my fathers was hired with the understanding that he knew how to do X.  It wasn't going to be his primary job function, but they wanted a back-up to the guy that did it.  Payroll could not go out without X.  My fathers' friend had a passing understanding of X, and figured he could pick up more later, so he said "sure, no problem.  I know X."  Four days after the hire date, the primary guy was killed in a freak accident.  Of course, my dad's friend had no clue what to do. 

[Twik]

Oh, the memories....

My company hired a person once for a technical/training position which involved a lot of writing. We use Office, pretty common, right?

First day he was sent to format a large table in Word. At the time, Windows did NOT like this large hunk of info, and kept freezing. After he'd been working for several hours, the computer froze. He didn't know what to do, so I told him to reboot.

After he rebooted, he came to me to "help him find the file". I asked him what he had named it, and where he had saved it.

His answer? "Oh, I didn't save it. Word does that automatically." Not without you naming it first, or setting up autosave, it doesn't. And resurrecting the remains of this huge table from .tmp files was virtually impossible.

He didn't believe me. For the remainder of his time at our company, the ONLY time he ever saved a file was at end-of-the-day shutdown. And since he was crashing every couple of hours, that's the only work he'd accomplish during the day.

It's one thing not to know to save your work. But to refuse to do it, despite all evidence that failure to do so loses hours of effort? That takes a certain mindset.

[Sophia]

It's one thing not to know to save your work. But to refuse to do it, despite all evidence that failure to do so loses hours of effort? That takes a certain mindset.

I think everyone loses a file like that ...  once. 

[dawbs]

It's one thing not to know to save your work. But to refuse to do it, despite all evidence that failure to do so loses hours of effort? That takes a certain mindset.

I think everyone loses a file like that ...  once. 

Heck, I've made my living doing tech support and I've done it more than once
(even while I was doing tech-support...)

But the important part is saying "ooh, sometimes I do something dumb and learn from it...even if I 'forget' my lesson ever now and again."

[Rose2Bear]

I don't think describing herself as "a self-starting, problem solving paragon who knows the ins and outs of business" is necessarily bad. Her past jobs might not reflect the ability she possesses. Only being 23 and fresh out of college, I have worked mostly at jobs such as a grocery stores or my current position at Starbucks. However, I would DEFINETLY call myself a self-starting, problem solving person who is business savvy. While experience is key, it is not everything - the mind behind a person can also impact how quickly they will be able to handle a new, more "professional" self-starting job.

That said, I definetly think her part about being computer proficient is a joke and she has no business putting that!

[hobish]

I've run into situations where the ability to use a program is circumstancial. In my last position, the ability to use Excel was required. We used it to make spreadsheets. I was qualified. In the position i am interested in now, but not nearly qualified  the ability to use Excel is required. In the 2nd one, though, the ability to use Excel that they're looking for is far beyond my scope.

OP, in the case of your library visitor, could you maybe point her toward Monster or something like that? I only mention them by name because they're the only service i've used. Their resume building program is great & can be easily transfered to a real resume, not just one to be posted on there. I cannot speak for their other services & they wouldn't pertain to the thread, anyway.

[Lauren]

The one thing my mother always taught me about padding resumes is exagrate your position, NEVER put down you can do something you can't. You WILL be found out and you won't be at that job much longer.

[Clara Bow]

Does she have any educational credentials? Like college or something? Because you're not going to become a teacher without that!
There are a million questions I'd love to advise you to ask her, but they're all snarky at best, downright rude at most. I think I would point out that fluttery script on a resume is a no-no. I've never heard of an employer who said "Well yes I realize that Mrs. Weeniebaker is a rocket scientist with two Nobel prizes but we can't hire her because her font is sooooo boring". And I'd ask her if she's like me to recommend a book on computers since she appeared to be having such a hard time with ours.
Maybe she just wants you to do this stuff for her because it's your jooooooooooob...if that's the case, stick around, the karma will get her.

[CoryanderX]

I've run into situations where the ability to use a program is circumstancial. In my last position, the ability to use Excel was required. We used it to make spreadsheets. I was qualified. In the position i am interested in now, but not nearly qualified  the ability to use Excel is required. In the 2nd one, though, the ability to use Excel that they're looking for is far beyond my scope.

Excel is so weird that way. I was almost rejected from a summer job because they needed someone who was proficient in Excel, and I said that I only knew a little about it, because I can enter data and sort it and move it around and do simple formulas, but nothing too complicated, and I know there's a lot more to it than that. My interviewer hesitantly showed me what I was doing, as if she expected me to be overwhelmed, and it was nothing more than typing addresses into a list.

[Cz. Burrito]

Well this is certainly going to be an awkward situation for if she gets an interview or gets hired. I have 2 stories in that respect on the hiring and the applying side, and neither is fun.

Applying...

My corporate recruitor sent me on an interview for a very desirable governmet contractor. She told me I was 100% qualified for the position, so i confidently went to the interview. The interview was going great and we just just about to stand up, shake hands and leave it off when one of the interviewers offhandly asked me, "I see you've never worked for the government or a contractor before, where did you pick up XYZ Accounting program?" and I just did not know what to say, I had never heard of the program and certainly didn't know how to use it. So I said the same to the effect. Eventually it was cleared up that *I* had no idea it was needed and that my recruitor had told them I was proficient in it (when I confronted her later she told me she figured all accounting software was the same, thats when I switched recruitors!) without my knowledge. I apoligized for wasting their time and they let me know that I really was very qualified and if they weren't able to find someone who did know the program they would be back in touch. But it was embarassing.

So, unless these people are also willing to lie in the interview they are setting themselves up for a not so fun interview.

The worst interview I had while looking for a job after college was one for which I felt I was qualified, based on the very vague description.  I applied for it.  They had my resume.  Having read my resume, which says that I have a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering, they offered me an interview.  Early in the interview, they told me that they were looking for a PhD electrical engineer.  I was not able to answer a single one of their questions, and I certainly would never have done this to myself on purpose (as in the original post).

[hobish]

Yep; I've seen that too.

My company once had to let go a new analyst after a couple of weeks because they caught him adding up numbers on his calculator before entering them (painstakingly and uncertainly) into the "boxes" in Excel.

"Analyst," btw, at my company meant someone who was extremely proficient with Excel, had a working knowledge of Access, and spent most of their time creating spreadsheets with complicated formulas and doing trend projections.  Not easy to fake that.   

Now, I've nodded my head in a job interview and said, "Sure, I know how to use X program" when I only had a basic knowledge of it, but that meant that from that evening till the next interview, I spent a big chunk of time refreshing/boning up on X program!  Same thing after sending a batch of resumes.  "Today I sent 5 resumes to 'Must be proficient in Word' and 3 to 'Must be able to do query sorts in Access,' so tonight I'll review my Word manual and do a tutorial in Access." 

But I've never outright lied about knowing a program.  If anything, I'd say, "Well no, I don't know Indesign, but I do know Publisher, Pagemaker, Frame and Quark; so I have a strong familiarity with desktop publishing software, and I'm a very quick study.  I believe (local JC) has a self-study program for Indesign; I'll have to look into it."  Way better answer than, "Uh, yeah, sure I do." 

     - saphie

LOL, analyst is exactly the job i was looking at I am not nearly that poficient with Excel & that's excatly why i am not qualified.

[Yarnspinner]

Now with update:

She was back today.  Just a few minutes ago.   

Something about our printer rules before I go on:

We charge 10 cents per page to print.  We emphasze to patrons that they are not paying for paper, but for the ink.  (This is also to stop some folks who want to get around it by bringing their own paper.) 

So, yesterday, after I had charged her for the ten she decided she didn't want (after announcing how much better it looked) and had me put things back to the "more professional" type she said she couldn't pay for anymore.  So, because I didn't want to argue, I let it go.  We do it from time to time when we know it's going to take more out of us in stress than in cash.

So she's back TODAY and wants me to redo it because, even though I sat down and did everything but retype the resume, SHE had neglected to proof read and make sure everything she want got  changed.  And I hadn't changed the font on the address which was the original resume template's design.  (Personally, I wish everyone would just quit using resume wizard.  What is so bloody hard about paragraphing and bolding on a computer, anyway???)  The template she used put her address and phone number in smaller (size 8 font) print.  I showed the thing to her.  I made her proof it. 

And she came back today and wanted me to redo it because it was "my fault" her counselor didn't like it.
I'm ashamed to say that I was polite and calm for all of three minutes before her whining and kvetching and refusal to take an iota or responsibility got to me.  She didn't think she should have to pay as it was my fault.  She should get it free because it was my fault.

At this point, my boss (whom I've written about elsewhere) and Queen (who I have to write only nice things about for a while) jumped in and sent me on my way.  Queen got right in her face and said that she had no business climbing all over me, that we weren't responsible for proofing everything and that it wasn't MY job to make sure SHE got a job.  And finally, she told the patron that she was getting on all our nerves and especially Queen's and Queen didn't want her bothering ANY of us. 

Since Queen and I have had some head to heads on other things (especially anything to do with religion and the way the kids are suspended here) I was stunned, but pleased to have that kind of backup.  Further, my boss, who often caves (like I will do) because it's easier, backed Queen up and told her that there would be no more free copies and no more help. 

She's such a computer whiz, anyway, she can do it on her own.

I know this sounds mean and gloat-y, but I think that, more than people who get in my face and scream, I dislike the ones who stand there and stare at you with puppy dog eyes and whine. 

Whew. 

But I DID apologize to both Queen and Boss for blowing up over a relatively little thing.  They both suggested I had nothing to apologize for because they were ready to go off on her themselves.

Sometimes Karma comes around after all.

You guys are all great!!!!!

[Thipu1]

I know exactly what you mean about people who obviously aren't qualified for jobs.

A while back we were looking for a new Library manager.  This person had to be able to understand and implement a complex, integrated library system.  Computer skills were a top priority. 

We received a resume from a gentleman who would otherwise have looked very good.  He was well-versed in the rather arcane topic of the library and had long experience in a managerial setting.  The only problem was that his resume and cover letter had clearly been typed on an old-fashioned manual typewriter .  We aren't even talking IBM Selectric, folks.  The indentation of the keys could be seen on the paper.  As good a librarian as this guy was, it was obvious that he was not the enthusiastic embracer of innovation we needed