No, It's Really Not All That Wonderful to Have So Many Kids In Here

[merkay]

At my library, children under 14 can't check out rated-R movies - but they're allowed to check out any books they want.  We do have a few (the Illustrated Guide to Black Sex, for instance, which cracks me up because I don't see what's so black about it) that I hope they don't find, but since they don't know where to look, so far it's been all good :-)

I actually vehemently disagree with policies like this.  There is a lot of literature out there that somebody is going to object to.   I also have a feeling that the books about g*a*y issues would end up on such "banned" lists.  So, equal access to information for all patrons, as far as I'm concerned.  If a parent doesn't want their child to see or read something, they can come to the dingdangity library with them.   I also doubt that most parents would agree with what I think their children shoul be reading, anyway.

I think it's a legal thing - providing rated R material to minors would be equivalent to letting them into an R-rated movie, which you're supposed to be at least 16 to see when unaccompanied by an adult (at least in the US).  More realistically, for parents who work and can't spend all their free time babysitting their pre-teens, it keeps the kids from checking out movies against their parents' permission.  Books aren't rated, so there's no real way to separate them out like that (and I don't buy a lot of books that I'd object to my kids seeing, anyway - at least not at my branch).

Nope, the movie rating system has absolutely no legal standing, and is an entirely voluntary process.  Although by "voluntary" I mean, your movie has no chance in hell of being shown in a movie theater if it doesn't have an MPAA rating. 

Wikipedia article on the history of the MPAA and the critics.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPAA_film_rating_system

There is a recent documentary about this subject called "This film is not Yet Rated."http://www.ifc.com/films?aId=18019

I've worked at a number of libraries in the past 10 years and none of them placed restrictions on who could check out what materials. 

[JeanFromBNA]

Lily, have you thought about writing a book of your own?  You have a way with words, even if few at your library seem to be listening.

[Yarnspinner]

(blush blush)  Thank you Jean.  (blush blush) I do love to write but can never get all the time together to finish anything.  (Maybe if this board wasn't so addicting )

Yes, I keep notes on a lot of this stuff and have some idea about using the little angels in a book some one of these days.  I have to finish the one I promised I'd write for one of my "good" kids, "she-who-loves-ghost-stories."  We had a discussion one day about a television program we both love, but which I only catch on visits to homes of friends who also watch it because I do not have cable and get exactly one station in clearly.

My Young Friend (she was 14 at the time, her english is approximate--it's a second language for her and part of her charm is the way she speaks it): You don't get cable?  How you LIVE without cable?  I DIE without cable!

Me: Well, MYF, there are many other things one can do without cable television.

MYF: Like what?

(Keep in mind this is a girl who is not only an honor student, but a voracious reader--and did I mention English is her SECOND language?  Her first language involves an alphabet that doesn't even LOOK like ours.)

Me:  Well, you like to read.  I read books.  I listen to music.  I play with my cat.  I get together with friends and go to movies.  I exercise.  I go for walks.  I pay bills.  I clean.  I do crafts.  I write b--

MYF:  You WRITE?  What you write?  You write horror?  You write ghost story?

Me:  Well--

MYF:  You do.  I know you do.  You love j-horror like me.  Right?

Me:  well, I'm working on something like that.

MYF:  You bring in.  I read.  I tell you if it good or not.

Now, I trust this kid with my own DVDs and books.  (And my manga.  The kids can't believe an adult would read the same stuff they would like.  I keep telling them I am an old kid but with manners.)  So I let her read a few of my trial chapters.  Now she's on me every time she comes in.  "You write more?  How much more?  When it finish? You got to finish!"

I am actually closer to finishing this book than anything else in my life...and my little editor has started e-mailing me harrassing notes that go like this "I tape HOUSE for you last night.  Now stop reading e-mail and WRITE something."

If it does get finished and published, I am dedicating it to her.

And if I may digress just a little:

I have to add another conversation quip:

MYF: We just read Old Yeller.  What a screwy book.

Me: Why.

MYF: Last book we read was Where The Redfern Grow.  I sick of reading books where the dog die.  Why teachers pick books where always the dog die?  Why can't dog  live now and then?  Stupid book.

Me:  Um, what book are you reading next.

MYF: The Yearling  Why you making face?  Does it have dog?  Does dog die?

Me: Well, I think there's a dog...but, um, the story is about a boy who takes in an abandoned fawn.

MYF: Don't tell me.  Let me guess.  The fawn die.

Me:  Oh, honey.  I can't even begin to tell you.  Buy kleenex.

MYF:  Oh crap.

She has a point.  Why does everything we consider great literature have to end with the dog or the deer dying? 

[kjdragonfly]

I have to add another conversation quip:

MYF: We just read Old Yeller.  What a screwy book.

Me: Why.

MYF: Last book we read was Where The Redfern Grow.  I sick of reading books where the dog die.  Why teachers pick books where always the dog die?  Why can't dog  live now and then?  Stupid book.

Me:  Um, what book are you reading next.

MYF: The Yearling  Why you making face?  Does it have dog?  Does dog die?

Me: Well, I think there's a dog...but, um, the story is about a boy who takes in an abandoned fawn.

MYF: Don't tell me.  Let me guess.  The fawn die.

Me:  Oh, honey.  I can't even begin to tell you.  Buy kleenex.

MYF:  Oh crap.

She has a point.  Why does everything we consider great literature have to end with the dog or the deer dying? 

I know exactly what you mean!  I HATE HATE HATE all the books and movies that consist of "child takes in wild/domesticated animal against parent/society/religious demands to not take in said creature.  Child becomes attached to creature and they have many bonding moments.  Then child is threatened by bad person/child's home is threatened by bad person.  Creature defend/helps child overcome evilness.  Creature dies in the struggle and may or may not leave behind babies" 

I have no idea why society loves those movies and books.  It enough to make one stop reading/watching anything with a child and animal in it! 

Sorry for the rant;this is a big pet peeve of mine. 

[jaxsue]

Off topic, but regarding the sad animal stories. I know they're tough to read. To be honest, most classical literature is depressing to a degree (Hemingway, Steinbeck, etc.).

But I have to stick up for Marjorie Rawlings, who wrote The Yearling. That story is more than a sad deer story. It's about a REAL Florida culture, before Disney and Miami Beach and overbuilding. It's not glamorous or refined, but it's fascinating. The people aren't polished and pretty, but it's a viable culture nonetheless. I recommend "Cross Creek." I also recommend visiting her home in Cross Creek, in the middle of nowhere, where you can see what Florida used to be, before the mouse came.

[Slartibartfast]

Off topic, but regarding the sad animal stories. I know they're tough to read. To be honest, most classical literature is depressing to a degree (Hemingway, Steinbeck, etc.).

But I have to stick up for Marjorie Rawlings, who wrote The Yearling. That story is more than a sad deer story. It's about a REAL Florida culture, before Disney and Miami Beach and overbuilding. It's not glamorous or refined, but it's fascinating. The people aren't polished and pretty, but it's a viable culture nonetheless. I recommend "Cross Creek." I also recommend visiting her home in Cross Creek, in the middle of nowhere, where you can see what Florida used to be, before the mouse came.

Nah, if you want REAL Florida culture, read "Florida Roadkill" by Tim Dorsey.  The protagonist (kinda) is a serial killer who is obsessed with Florida history, and it has murder by space shuttle, Barbie doll, Levis jeans, soap, and I'm sure some others that I'm forgetting.  I wouldn't call it a "mystery" really, but he's got some great attention to actual historical detail along with an eye for great farce :-)

[pryncsskittyn]

Lily,
I am so so sorry for what you are encountering.  Not so long ago it was me in the library with a group of friends causing a ruckus.  Though luckily our library had a fantastic park with an amphitheatre (happens to be where I'm getting married next fall), we spent any good day outside in the park.  When we were inside, we had a room that we were allowed to use.  It was a conference room, often used for those off-site college classes, and it was directly across from the circulation desk with glass doors.  In other words, we were allowed to congregate there, but were under constant supervision, without really being a huge PITA to the librarians.  When our turn came up at the terminals, we knew it, cuz that kid would re-join us, then the next person was allowed to go. 
The biggest thing about our library was that they only allowed one person per computer, unless there was a signed note, written on district letterhead, from the teacher, stating that 2 kids were researching together.  I'm still wondering why your library hasn't enacted this policy, or a 3 per group maximum on these groups of kids to keep the noise level down.

And FYI, I wasn't one of those Eminem chasing brats, we were a group of tree-hugging-hippies looking for a quiet place to relax and enjoy our, um, "extracurricular enlightenment".  We even organized puppet shows for the little kids twice a year, creating our own puppets in our little room and writing our own story lines.

[pryncsskittyn]

Me again, replying to sad stories... I grew up in Camden Maine, located next to Rockport Maine (both towns wouldn't fill Sea World with their populations to put it in perspective).  My entire life I grew up hearing real life encounters of Andre' the Seal...  all those sad ones rip my heart out.  Though I did appreciate the movie they put out, I was a little upset that they distorted it so much (the seal isn't even the right SPECIES!  It's a Sea Lion, not the simple Harbor Seal), Andre did not die of old age as the story goes.  He was murdered, it's theorized it was an angry lobsterman (Andre frequently stole bait from them, that's how he ended up in the New England Aquarium),  enough of my sad story, sorry, way off topic.

[IndianInlaw]

Andre was offed?

For real?


I knew he was a sea lion, but not how he met his untimely end.

Some people!

By the way, have you been introduced to the M.I.E culture?

http://www.exiles.com/

[pryncsskittyn]

Poor poor Andre .  Yes, it is thoroughly believed he was "offed".  He wasn't the "much loved" seal the movie made him out to be, just another tourist attraction.  Though my Mom remembers him quite well, she was best friends with the little girl who adopted him.  It is actually now quite illegal in most Maine harbors to feed the seals.  They are theives and will climb aboard boats or "bait floats" and steal all the bait they can scoff.

And I ADORE the site, thank you!  I'm a Maine exile, and am sending the link on to my cousin in Virginia.

[ccnumber4]

To all the librarians here:  despite all the crud you deal with day in and day out, you very likely are making a definite impact in some kid's life.  I hope someday one or two of those kids will let you know that.  I cringe at some of these stories.   

[jaxsue]

Slart - Thanks for the recommendation. I'm between books right now and will check it out. Sounds intriguing.

[JeanFromBNA]

Lily:  When you do get around to writing that story, include the dialogue that you wrote here.  It made me laugh out loud  !

[lilaenne]

Oh, so many different things to which to reply in this thread...

We have a law in PA that requires filtering on public (including library) computers. When it first came in, the staff was all really frustrated, and for good reason -- tickets to "Mt. Gretna's Muder Mystery Dinner Theatre"? Tough luck, the word "muder" is an automatic flag. I also had to turn away a 17-year-old college-bound girl who couldn't register for her fall classes... at Winston-Salem College in NC. Apparently, the filter felt this was a reference to cigarettes rather than a school, and blocked a minor's access accordingly. 

However... Over time, we learned that as long as some kind of filter is in place, we can tweak the details within reason. (Mt Gretna and WSC were eventually restored, along with the Humane Society (no clue why they were blocked) and a few others. On the plus side, when we reported to the tech department that we have an average of 17 screaming teenagers at each computer after school, they took a closer look at MySpace, and decided that concerns about minor children's personal info on the web trumped the freedom to bully and make sexual comments to one another online. Blocked. Oh, happy day.  And our sad, overtaxed bandwidth has also seen the demise of YouTude and ThatVideoSite on the library computers as well.

We had a large band of young teens a few years ago who were impossible to deal with. We did find that you only had to actually call the cops maybe twice, and after that they just got up and left when you reached for the phone. Now, that group is all late teens, and only bother with the library when they're actually doing school work (rarely). They're over the need to be "cool" by being obnoxious, and they've grown up to be pretty tolerable.

On the children's classics front: once, at the request of a young patron, the children's librarian and I tried to come up a list of Newberry winners where no character dies. I think there are maybe four.

[cygirlkat]

I've worked at a number of libraries in the past 10 years and none of them placed restrictions on who could check out what materials. 

Newbie (well, returnee...) chiming in:

Our library doesn't have any restrictions on books, but DVDs, videos and CDs are limited to bearers of adult cards, who are (theoretically ) more responsible with their materials. Our rule isn't content related.