Do not wake Momma Bear!

[orsuela]

I still don't know if I should have done this but I had had it!

Background info:
I have 5 children, they are not perfect.  My friend has 1, he is.    We are very good friends, and I love her dearly.  But NOT her son (9 years old.)  Everytime they come over I catch him hurting my children.  He is bigger than all of them, and he loves to bully them.  I've caught him spitting beans in my young daughter's eyes (she's 4 years old), repeatedly kicking my small son in the groin (6 years old),  and the whole time he is here he usually has my 8 year old son in a headlock.  I normally ask him politely to stop hurting them if I see him doing it, and let my friend take over from there.  But usually he just lies to her and she will only threaten him, or some benign punishment.  She hasn't mastered the art of seeing through children's "stories."  Now my children are no saints!  I have many stories of them, and I am not blind to their behavior.  But this is a story about him.  I will call him VB: Violent Bully.

Okay, now here is "the incident."  One day last week my friend (this boy's mother) showed up out of the blue with her friend and this friend's child in tow.  I was embarrassed because the house was a mess and so suggested we sit on the front porch furniture.  The children took off for the back yard.  I am making small talk with the women when I hear a scream.  I know exactly which child of mine it is and that it's a "real-pain" scream.  (when you have THIS many kids, you have to know how to read the screams!  )  I get up and excused myself and ran to the back.  I find my DS1 scuffling with VB, and my DS2 crying in pain and holding his head.  I asked what had happened and VB (for once) didn't say anything.  My DS1 told me that VB had punched my DS2 in the stomach and then pulled his hair.  And DS1 was trying to defend my DS2 from any more attacks.  I could tell from the look on VB's face that he had done this, and he didn't try to deny it this time, so I told him this:  "I am sick of you coming to my house and beating up my children.  Every single time you've come you have hurt one of them.  You are bigger than them, and have NO business purposely hurting smaller children!  I do not want you to come and visit my kids again if you cannot behave yourself.  I am not happy with you, and I expect this behavior to end, NOW!  You are going to sit in this chair right here, and I will be telling your mother exactly what happened.  Do you understand?"  The whole time I was talking to him, I was shaking.  I was so upset with him, and just tired of having to protect my own children in their home.  I left him in the backyard, and hauled the other children up front to keep a better eye on them.  We got to the front and my friend asked where her son was.  I told her that I had caught him fighting and asked him to sit on a chair for awhile.  She answered "Well, good!"  Then I served them some refreshments and called to the VB to come to the front yard.  He came and sat by his mother and wouldn't play with the other kids.  Which was fine with me.  Then the visit (thankfully) ended, and they went home. 
Since then, my friend has been strained with me.  But what would you have done??  Maybe I should have called her back (having her walk through my disastrous house) and let her deal with it?  Or just told him to go sit with his mom??  I didn't know, I just couldn't take watching my children get beat up in their own home for no reason--yet again!  And if you're gonna mess with the cubs, don't you expect momma bear to get a little riled up??  What should I have done?? 
(PS: Something good did come out of this, my DS1 finally stood up for his younger siblings, and DS2 is not bugging him this week.)

[minnaloushe]

Gee, the only thing I can think you should have done was have the conversation months ago.

[Irish Clovers]

Your house, your rules.  If ANY kid was picking on mine in their own home, I would come UNGLUED.  I don't think you were wrong at all and his mother should have taken care of this along time ago.

[ZipTheWonder]

If someone hurt (beyond minor the minor scrapping over toys in the toddler years) my child in his own home, I would tell the other parent "I'm sorry to have to cut short our visit and let you go home, but I think my son really needs some attention right now.....can we get together another time....there's the door....buh-bye...."  I would probably send him to his mom, comfort my child, and then give them the bum's rush off my porch.

I really don't like the idea of children being afraid in their own homes, so I think the bully needs to be invited to go home whenever he aggresses on your children.  Every time it happens.

[Alida]

You did nothing wrong, except it should have been done a long time ago.  It is a shame the friendship is strained, but do you really want to keep having your kids hurt by this woman's son, so you can save your friendship? 

[Tabris]

I normally ask him politely to stop hurting them if I see him doing it, and let my friend take over from there.  But usually he just lies to her and she will only threaten him, or some benign punishment.  She hasn't mastered the art of seeing through children's "stories."

I believe here was your mistake. You used etiquette when you should not have.

Etiquette is for normal polite interaction and to keep things smoothed over. But if you are a police officer and you encounter a mugging, etiquette would be out of place. ("Excuse me, sir, but would you  mind not beating and stealing from that woman? Thank you.")

What you did with the incident you outlined was absolutely correct, and clearly you got through to the violent bully because he went into a good hard sulk. You have proven that YOU are not afraid of him. He views politeness and fairness as weakness--well, now he knows you're stronger and smarter than he is, and he's whipped.

And his mom doesn't like that because you've shattered the fantasy she entertains that everyone "misunderstands" her son but you were on her side in seeing him as delivered right into her arms by the angels of God.

Letting her take over the discipline when it was clear she wasn't going to do it was not a good idea. From now on, if he steps out of line, tell him your house--your rules. Go sit over THERE with his mother and eat his crumpet and do NOT so much as move a muscle.

Be prepared for him to get sneaky about it if he returns to your home--breaking your kids' toys or something. Do not let him play with your children unsupervised. If it comes down to your word against his, your friend will choose him, but you'll have ammunition at that point to tell her, justifiably, that she is never to enter your orbit again.

Period.

[Clara Bow]

A: Your friend should have her tail kicked for allowing her son to abuse small children. Period. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior and my mother would have ripped my head off if I had dared pull that kind of stunt. And the behavior we're talking about here is not bullying, or boys being boys, it's abuse. Kicking a child in the groin? Punching one in the stomach? That's beyond the pale, big time.
B: A child engaging in violent behavior at this level is quite possibly psychologically disturbed. It could be as simple as an anger management issue or as complex as sociopathy but something is not right here. If your friend will not take care of the issue then I would not allow that child to be around my children AT ALL. Why were they unsupervised knowing that he behaves this way?
He has had ample opportunity to amend his behavior and has failed miserably. Keep him away from your children. And if friend asks why you can tell her it's because her son is dangerous and you fear that one day he's really going to hurt the kids. If that's overreacting then that's just too bad. This kid has issues and his mother is blind to them. Therefore you have to take over for the simple safety of your children.
Can you tell I was bullied as a kid??

[sammycat]

Bravo!!  That was a great way to handle it!  I was so relieved to read that his mother didn't undermine your discipline, as that's what I was afraid you were going to say.  His behaviour is way beyond acceptable.  Calling his mother in to deal with him would have been a complete waste of time as has been proven in the past.

Personally I wouldn't bring this up with her but if she should mention it I'd just tell her straight that you had to do what you had to do.  Negotiating friendships when there are different parenting styles involved can be an absolute nightmare.  At the end of the day though you have to do what is right for your children/family and in this case you did. No matter what else happens - whether it's the friendship dying away or continuing on you know you did the right thing.  

This might have been the wake up call VB and his mother needed.  If he's behaving this way towards your children then chances are very high that he's doing it other people as well.  He probably has some deep psychological issues if he's constantly behaving this way.

Regardless of anything else - NEVER leave your children alone with this thug again.  In fact I would never see this boy again, and if it means losing this friend because of it then so be it.

[kareng57]

You definitely did the right thing, the first priority is to protect your children against this bully.

If your friend calls, e-mails etc. and wants to get together, I'd recommend that you say something like "can we get together for an evening coffee when Dad's around to watch the kids?  Our kids haven't seemed to have gotten along very well the last couple of times.."  I agree that that is probably the understatement of the century, but saying "your son is a monster" is probably not good, etiquette-wise.  It's too bad that she can't see it, she could definitely be facing major problems a few years down the road.

[IndianInlaw]

I see a serial killer in the making.

His behavior is only going to escalate and then his mother will wonder where she went wrong.

I'm actually frightened for you.  He's going to be a teenager before you know it.

[JoyinVirginia]

If your friend is not happy with how VB was treated, that's too bad. It is more important for your kids to be happy and safe than your friend to have her kid with her.  I am with other posters, you did good but should have done it when you FIRST noticed VB behavior. Bully's do not respond to polite requests.

When oldest DD was little, we had lots of neighborhood kids and her friends over often. I led a Girl Scout troop for several years, also. So I am speaking from experience. First bad behavior: severe talking to, direct commands that I expect to be obeyed right then. Second offense: the power of yelling, which is even more powerful if you rarely yell;  And off to home goes the offender. On subsequent visits: prior offender gets severe talking to when they walk in my house: you do ANYTHING out of line and you will immediately be sent home and you are banned from playing at our house.  

You have too much to do, to be worrying about kids that can't behave. Visiting your house is a privilege, not a right. VB should have been banned before this. Do not let the kid back in your house at all, unless he is sitting right by his mother and in your sight the entire time.  

Joy in Virginia, who really recommends yelling at times to get your point across!

[Deetee]

and I will be telling your mother exactly what happened.  Do you understand?"  The whole time I was talking to him, I was shaking.  I was so upset with him, and just tired of having to protect my own children in their home.  I left him in the backyard, and hauled the other children up front to keep a better eye on them.  We got to the front and my friend asked where her son was.  I told her that I had caught him fighting and asked him to sit on a chair for awhile.  She answered "Well, good!" 

Did you actually tell the mother exactly what her son did? I can't fault your other actions, but I think you should have been more clear with the mother (not just the son) as to how upset you were and how much damage he had done. From what you wrote, it sounds like you just told the mom they were all fighting and didn't mention the specifics.

[ShadesOfGrey]

Did you actually tell the mother exactly what her son did? I can't fault your other actions, but I think you should have been more clear with the mother (not just the son) as to how upset you were and how much damage he had done. From what you wrote, it sounds like you just told the mom they were all fighting and didn't mention the specifics.

I agree with this, and with the idea that you should have said something earlier in the relationship.  If you are at the point of losing it, it means that something should have been done earlier to avoid the situation. 

That being said, if VB is bullying your kids, you have a right to stop him, if the other parent isnt stopping it first. 

There is something you can do in the future-dont make play dates with this child or leave these children unsupervised together.  Most likely, as parenting is a sensitive issue, your friend will be a little offended at your lack of desire to leave her child alone with yours, but if it is what you must do, do it without value judgement. 

good luck.   

[cheyne]

I wouldn't allow this child in my home again, period.  I had a similar situation with my only nephew.  He has always been large for his age, and a complete bully.  My sister and mother could not see it, and made-up all kinds of excuses for his behavior.  The final straw (for me) was when he put his hands on my son's throat and threatened to kill him.  (My son is 1.5 years older, but was physically smaller than my nephew at the time).  This happened on a large family vacation 4 years ago.  I had it out with my sister, and we have not spoken, or seen each other in that time.  It is sad to lose a friend or relative because of something like this, but the safety of your children come FIRST.  This is not an etiquette issue, it is a safety issue. 

(Completely OT here, but my nephew threatened to kill his mother with a butcher knife about 6 months after the above incident.  They got him into counselling, but he was 13 years old by then and it really is too late.)

[willow08]

Amen to what Tabris said.

I think you were pretty restrained considering the damage that this kid could be doing to your children. Repeated kicks to the groin could cause some serious problems for your younger son. Also head injuries are not great for small children.

I know what you mean about the Mama Bear. I was angry and disguested last night watching a news report on the teenage girls in NY who videotaped themselves brutally beating a 13yo classmate. But then Dh made a comment about hoping that our 2 yo never finds herself in that sort of bullying situation and suddenly I was filled with a rage I cannot even describe. The idea of someone hurting my child that intentionally and that maliciously turned me into another person altogether.

Good for you for putting your foot down. This shows your children that their safety and wellbeing means more to you than maintaining a friendship with a woman who lets her son terrorize them. I think I would let this friendship slowly die or if you continue to see this woman make it a "moms only" lunch or visit in a setting where the children are not welcome. Leave yours at home with a sitter. VB will have to make other arrangements.