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  • July 25, 2016, 09:41:11 PM

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Author Topic: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums  (Read 4290 times)

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sammycat

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2016, 06:47:25 PM »
I've just seen a segment on Australian TV from a UK morning TV show.

ETA link to story.  http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/07/21/06/05/off-grid-parents-chastised-after-feral-child-wees-on-live-tv

It showed a family who believes in "natural parenting" - whatever that means. In this case it means allowing your one year old child to urinate on the floor of a TV studio and thinking it was okay.  I dread to think what these people would be like if their kids started running riot in a public place. Think it's perfectly appropriate most likely.


I think the Cafe Owner erred only in posting this policy.  And I don't think it went far enough, frankly.  While I've had a few meals ruined by loud, shrieking children, I've had far more meals ruined by obnoxious adults.

Anybody, no matter the age, who doesn't quiet down within a reasonable amount of time - and I think 5 minutes is far too long - should be spoken to and asked to quiet down or leave.  I'm torn on the children.  While I do think it is the parents that should be addressed, I've seen so many children respond much better to a stranger telling them to quiet down than to their parent.  So perhaps gesture to the child and ask the parent(s), 'May I?'

It really makes no difference to me what the source of the loudness is, whether it is a tantrum, whether the person in question is autistic or has some other issue.  While in public, people are expected to behave a certain way and if they do not, they should be removed from public until they are able to behave.  If you have a family member who is always loud, for whatever reason, and you would otherwise never be able to go out, then it is on you to mitigate the issue for everyone else.  Go to a restaurant at an off time and ask to be seated away from other diners, for example.

A large group is always going to be louder than a smaller one so if there is a large group, you make a reservation and let the restaurant decide how best to seat you.  Perhaps they have a separate room or alcove they can seat you in to mitigate any disturbance to other diners.

Pod.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 06:55:17 PM by sammycat »

Dr. F.

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2016, 07:48:30 PM »
I tried not to give any opinion in my original post because I was interested to see what you guys made of it, and the views are mostly pretty much in line  with my own.

I found some of the replies on the original post (shared on my FB feed) infuriating - most felt it was outrageous that anyone else should even consider finding their little angels' behaviour annoying or try to deal with it.

This. Some of the comments on the original post were insane. Basically saying that tantrums are normal, and anyone who doesn't want to listen to one is an evil child-hating jerk. The sheer number of such responses was disturbing. I'm delighted that my fellow ehellions disagree.

jazzgirl205

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2016, 08:59:15 PM »
Tantrums are not a natural part of a child's development.  My dd tried a tantrum once at home.  We put a stop to it immediately and she never had one again.  If she got fussy in a public place as a baby or toddler, we took her outside before she could disturb anyone else.  If we were taking her out to a nice restaurant, we would go early and leave before 6 (before dates, celebrations, and marriage proposals usually occur).  A well behaved child is able to attend concerts, the ballet, museums and other things that help to make them a well rounded human being.  A parent is doing them no favors by letting them misbehave.
Tantrums are not "parents letting a child misbehave". Tantrums ARE a normal part of a child's development because it comes from the child's frustration with being unable to communicate their needs. They also don't have the emotional maturity to regulate their own behaviour in stressful situations, like when feeling tired or hungry, or calm themselves down.

We must have different definitions of tantrum.  If a child is tired or hungry, they may be slightly fussy.  I define a tantrum as an angry fit to try to get one's way.  If a child is slightly fussy, they just need to be taken outside and calmed down - not ignored.  A tantrum must be squashed as soon as it happens so a child won't learn to be unpleasant and rude to get what they want.

I see tantrums totally different from a child misbehaving. A child misbehaving is being wilfully disobedient. A child having a tantrum could just have had a very long day out and needs a quiet place to nap.

jazzgirl205

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2016, 09:12:01 PM »
Tantrums are not a natural part of a child's development.  My dd tried a tantrum once at home.  We put a stop to it immediately and she never had one again.  If she got fussy in a public place as a baby or toddler, we took her outside before she could disturb anyone else.  If we were taking her out to a nice restaurant, we would go early and leave before 6 (before dates, celebrations, and marriage proposals usually occur).  A well behaved child is able to attend concerts, the ballet, museums and other things that help to make them a well rounded human being.  A parent is doing them no favors by letting them misbehave.
[/quote

I wonder if we are thinking about different kids of tantrums. I have a two year old nephew, and maybe what I'm thinking of is more of a "meltdown" than a "tantrum." It is usually caused by him not getting what he wants in combination with him being hungry and/or (over)tired. He doesn't pitch himself to the ground in a screaming fit, but he does cry loudly and inconsolably. I don't know that my sister has found a way to "nip it in the bud," unless that means giving him what he wants (not good parenting). Otherwise, she has to take him off somewhere and let him cry it out, and maybe feed him or put him down for a nap. It would be similarly unpleasant to witness at a cafe as a tantrum. But I think of the age range for tantrums as 2-4, and this is not really the age range in which kids should be going to the ballet or to concerts.

I started taking my dd to the ballet when she was 3.  Most ballets are fairytales anyway and they always had a children's party afterwards where the tots could meet the dancers.  I started taking her to the symphony when she was 5.  I taught her how to behave and bought her a rhinestone tiara just for the symphony.  If she misbehaved, I was going to confiscate the tiara.  I never had a problem.
She threw a tantrum once at home when she was about 18 mos.  My dh and I laughed and told her she was doing it wrong.  We proceeded to throw ourselves on the ground, flail our arms and legs, and wail loudly.  She thought we had gone completely insane.  She never threw a tantrum again and if another child did, she would look at them as if they had gone completely insane.
Quick question:  Why are people upset when other adults speak to their children?  I never understood that.

Twik

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2016, 09:00:37 AM »
Tantrums are natural, but that doesn't mean they should be indulged. Part of maturing is realizing that tantrums are not an effective way of dealing with frustration, and learning other methods.

I think the problem the café-owner created for herself was the "pre-emptive strike" method of her announcement. Many of the parents growling "No one tells *my* child how to behave except me!" would likely be pleased to have someone come by and try a neutral distraction that just might break the tantrum cycle.

It's poor customer relations to announce publicly that your customers are lousy parents and you're not going to stand for it. However, if all publicity is good publicity, I suppose she succeeded at that.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Kiwipinball

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #35 on: Today at 09:01:50 PM »
Tantrums are not a natural part of a child's development.  My dd tried a tantrum once at home.  We put a stop to it immediately and she never had one again.  If she got fussy in a public place as a baby or toddler, we took her outside before she could disturb anyone else.  If we were taking her out to a nice restaurant, we would go early and leave before 6 (before dates, celebrations, and marriage proposals usually occur).  A well behaved child is able to attend concerts, the ballet, museums and other things that help to make them a well rounded human being.  A parent is doing them no favors by letting them misbehave.
[/quote

I wonder if we are thinking about different kids of tantrums. I have a two year old nephew, and maybe what I'm thinking of is more of a "meltdown" than a "tantrum." It is usually caused by him not getting what he wants in combination with him being hungry and/or (over)tired. He doesn't pitch himself to the ground in a screaming fit, but he does cry loudly and inconsolably. I don't know that my sister has found a way to "nip it in the bud," unless that means giving him what he wants (not good parenting). Otherwise, she has to take him off somewhere and let him cry it out, and maybe feed him or put him down for a nap. It would be similarly unpleasant to witness at a cafe as a tantrum. But I think of the age range for tantrums as 2-4, and this is not really the age range in which kids should be going to the ballet or to concerts.

I started taking my dd to the ballet when she was 3.  Most ballets are fairytales anyway and they always had a children's party afterwards where the tots could meet the dancers.  I started taking her to the symphony when she was 5.  I taught her how to behave and bought her a rhinestone tiara just for the symphony.  If she misbehaved, I was going to confiscate the tiara.  I never had a problem.
She threw a tantrum once at home when she was about 18 mos.  My dh and I laughed and told her she was doing it wrong.  We proceeded to throw ourselves on the ground, flail our arms and legs, and wail loudly.  She thought we had gone completely insane.  She never threw a tantrum again and if another child did, she would look at them as if they had gone completely insane.
Quick question:  Why are people upset when other adults speak to their children?  I never understood that.

I don't completely understand that either. I regularly talk to children and I've never had parents get mad at me. I'm generally joking around with them, that kind of thing. I would NOT discipline a strange child (I might ask him/her to stop doing something if it was negatively affecting me) but would not scold/yell. Obviously you (general) need to gauge the situation and not be creepy. I'm sure it helps that I'm a woman (there are lots of men who love children as much as I do, but there's a lot more suspicion of men, which makes me sad). But I've never had any parents get mad at me.

Katana_Geldar

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Re: Cafe Owner's Plan to Deal with Tantrums
« Reply #36 on: Today at 09:26:58 PM »
For me it's not about a stranger talking to my child, in usually ok with that, it's about a stranger thinking they have the right to discipline my child. That's not right. Only two people have that, myself and DH. We have agreed how to do this and back each other up, anyone else including close relatives will be just confusing.

With a stranger it's even worse. They don't know me or my child or what he's like. If you have a problem with my parenting, talk to me or forever hold your peace.