Honesty vs. Kindness

[Lysitheia]

I feel really weird starting two threads at the same time...

Reading the AI thread, a thought occured. What, exactly, is the line between being supportive of a loved one and feeding their delusions?

At what point would you feel obliged to lay it one the table (for a close friend/family member?) How would you do it?

Does etiquette in a situation like this demand silence or potentially hurtful truth?

[Gigi]

I think it depends on the situation and how much damage control is possible. 

If I'm shopping with Trixie and she asks if an outfit she's considering looks good on her I'd tell her something like "It's nice but I think another color, hem length, fit etc. would flatter you more." That way I haven't told her she looks bad, but that she could look better.

If Trixie shows up wearing an outfit she's already bought and asks for an opinion I try to find something like great color, nice lines, very stylish etc. that I can say without indicating that I love it. I don't want to tell her she looks great, but I also don't want to hurt her feelings. 

Sometimes I've fallen back on something like "Wow, where did you get that?"  Usually that brings a response like "Oh, I got a good buy on it at _____."  This can be followed up by "amazing".  LOL Amazing is a great word since it can mean so many different things.

For something like the AI aspirant  you can always fall back on something like "I admire your courage.  I'd never be able to get up in front of judges and perform."  Even if they're terrible you can be impressed that they have the drive to go for it.  Actually it's even more impressive when they're terrible. 

[Bijou]

I feel really weird starting two threads at the same time...

Reading the AI thread, a thought occured. What, exactly, is the line between being supportive of a loved one and feeding their delusions?

At what point would you feel obliged to lay it one the table (for a close friend/family member?) How would you do it?

Does etiquette in a situation like this demand silence or potentially hurtful truth?

Do you see how shocked some of the family and friends are when the person doesn't make it to Hollywood?  That's because they believe it, too. 
I often wonder what part nerves play in the person being unable to perform well in front of the judges. 
There is one girl I think they should have let through, and Paula was willing to do so as the girl left the room, but was voted down.  It was the girl in the interesting outfit of hat, knee length pants and said she dresses how she feels when she gets up in the morning.  She really made a mess of the song, but when she started out I could hear something in her voice and it was unique.  I wish they had let her through.

[fklwmn]

If Trixie shows up wearing an outfit she's already bought and asks for an opinion I try to find something like great color, nice lines, very stylish etc. that I can say without indicating that I love it. I don't want to tell her she looks great, but I also don't want to hurt her feelings. 

Sometimes I've fallen back on something like "Wow, where did you get that?"  Usually that brings a response like "Oh, I got a good buy on it at _____."  This can be followed up by "amazing".  LOL Amazing is a great word since it can mean so many different things.

Oooohhh... I do NOT agree with this. If Trixie is your friend, and she is wearing something that looks BAD on her, you should definitely be honest with her!! If you can't count on your girlfriends to let you know that something does not flatter you, who CAN you count on? certainly not the people in public who are going to whisper behind their hands at how awful your outfit looks.

My girlfriends and I have always been really good at the "Honey, look at this here.... let's find you something else to wear!" and I am SO thankful about that b/c I cannot tell you how many times I have seen someone out with their friends looking atrocious and thinking "She needs better friends" b/c her friends didn't let her know she shouldn't be wearing whatever it is she was wearing.

[kathrynne]

I find the gentlest way I can to get the message across, and if the person is truly deluded it's not going to get through anyway.

I think many of those horrible auditions on AI are people who are tone-deaf. If you're tone-deaf you probably don't know you can't sing unless someone's kind enough to tell you. Tone-deafness apparently runs in the family, so it's not totally surprising that family members share the illusion that Billy sings well.

Until AI came along it never occurred to me that such a large part of the population could be that tone-deaf.

One thing I question, though, is that many of these people show up for audtions saying they're in choirs and sing in public, and that they get good feedback when they do so. That's sad. We're so afraid of hurting a person's feelings that we let them keep these delusions until someone finally comes along to shatter them.

All children must be terrific at everything they try. Everyone's an artist, the next best-selling novelist, the ultimate singer or an amazing athlete, even if there's no ability whatsoever in these areas, simply because we must preserve self-esteem at all costs.

[Sterling]

If my good friend was wearing something ( or my sister who just can not dress herself) that look awful on her I would be kind but let them know exactly why.  I'll give an example.

My sister lost 112 lbs in a yer and a half.  She is now a size 4 and looks really good.  However even this she has a bulge in her tummy from loose skin that did not shrink and the fact she has had 2 emergancy c-sections.  She found a black dress she loved and asked my opinion.  I gently told her that in was a very straight tight sheath that clung to her bulge.  I think I wored ed it something like "Sweetie you are SO tiny these days but that dress does something funny in the middle and doesn't show off you tiny waist the wat it should."  She found another dress that fit tight right at the waist and then was A lined and skimmed over her one bad spot.  I never mentioned that the other dress actually made it look like she was 6 month pregnate.

If they can't see it and you love them you have to find a way to stop them without hurting thier feelings to much.

[jais]

Generally speaking, it's best to find a way to be honest without being unkind.  And it's not always possible.  I don't mean to hijack your thread here, but my daughter, CAN'T sing. She has her father's voicetone and honestly sounds like she's singing thru her nose. At 10 years old, I don't think it's right to tell her straight out that she can't, I just try to encourage her more towards dance or drawing as she's better at both of these.  When we watch AI, she always talks about how much she wants to audition when she's old enough, I don't have the heart to tell her she wouldn't make it, so I try to change it to a discussion about what age she thinks is old enough.  Am I doing her a disservice by not being honest about her voice?

[goblue2539]

Am I doing her a disservice by not being honest about her voice?

At 10, I'd say no.  Now, if at 18 you still think she can't sing well but you drive her to the audition anyway, yes.  I'm sure though, that within that time frame either the show will be gone, or you'll have found a way to tell her about her voice.  How does she think her dad sounds?

[Twik]

jais, perhaps talk about how nearly everyone who gets accepted on AI has a vocal coach, and has spent years perfecting their voice. Then discuss if one would be a good idea for her.

Worst that can happen, she spends some money becoming a better singer than she is now. She'll probably learn her limitations, either from her teacher or from listening to other students. Or, it turns out that her voice can be improved significantly, and she would have a chance (best case scenario).

[twinkletoes]

I can't seem to find my first post!

I'd like to be honest about some things.  My sister is obese, and she has health problems - back pains, shortness of breath, etc.  I wish she would lose the weight - she'd look so much better.  It makes me so frustrated, as I want to say something - anything - but I think no matter what I say, it would be rude.  Don't get me wrong - I'd never say "do you really need seconds?" or anything crass like that. 

[Mrs. Eclipse]

I was just thinking of something.

The only person who's ever flat out told me that I'm not a good singer is my father

He's also the only one I trust to tell me things how they are.  Which is something that is very important to me.

Sometimes being honest, while it might be hurtful at the time, can be helpful to the long-term relationship, if only because each person knows the other has all their cards on the table.

Of course, there are nice ways to say it, as well as different situations where it may not be appropriate, but sometimes you have to say it.

[goblue2539]

Of course, there are nice ways to say it, as well as different situations where it may not be appropriate, but sometimes you have to say it.

I think this is the key, and I can't say how much I agree and love how well you put it.  It is possible to be kindly honest.  The trick is putting that into practice.

[twinkletoes]

Good points, TerriblePun.

One more thing:  I think it's nice to tell people to change something that can be easily fixed.  If your friend is trying on a dress that isn't a flattering look, you can truthfully tell her to get something else in a color/cut/size that will flatter her.  

However, I've been on the receiving end of people who have criticized my hairstyle, or clothing, or whatever.  And then I had to sit there while that person ordered dinner.  I felt awful - I was so embarrassed, and I wanted to just go home.  I couldn't do anything to 'fix' the problem, so I felt miserable and kept thinking "I bet that person keeps thinking of how awful my shirt looks."  For what it's worth, I've never talked to that person again.

And if someone were to ask me "what do you think of my hairstyle/clothes/makeup?"  I'd take a second and think.  If someone is obviously loving the look, I'll think of something to say - "wow, that lime-green is an eye-catching color!"  If they weren't sure, I'd try to state it in a way that wasn't mean, maybe "I like the color, but the cut isn't very flattering."  

[kathrynne]

I was just thinking of something.

The only person who's ever flat out told me that I'm not a good singer is my father

He's also the only one I trust to tell me things how they are.  Which is something that is very important to me.

Sometimes being honest, while it might be hurtful at the time, can be helpful to the long-term relationship, if only because each person knows the other has all their cards on the table.

Of course, there are nice ways to say it, as well as different situations where it may not be appropriate, but sometimes you have to say it.

Much better to be told honestly that you're not Kelly Clarkson early on, before you start dreaming of a musical career.

Unfortunately, many people are running around telling tone-deaf people that they have "perfect pitch." After hearing many "perfect pitch people" do what they consider to be singing, I'm thinking I'll keep earplugs around. I have a SIL who claims to have perfect pitch. When she opens her mouth to sing I'd like to pitch her!

[Athos_000]

I used to work for a Dress Barn. Generally people who are shopping at this store are at their wits end because they've been everywhere else already and this is the last hope to find something that fits. I got very good at fitting customers, and they were always appreciative that I would tell them the truth about how things looked instead of pushing a sale. The last thing any of them wanted (or needed) was to leave the store with an outfit that looked horrible.

I even talked one guy out of buying his daughter a dress from our store, because we did not currently have anything in stock appropriate for a 15 year old, and I couldn't imagine how crushed she would have felt if her dad had brought home a dress for her to wear to homecoming that her grandmother would have enjoyed wearing (besides the fact that the girl was not with him to actually fit, we couldn't even be sure of a size to give him).