Author Topic: Painting class and other people's disorganization  (Read 4656 times)

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freakyfemme

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Painting class and other people's disorganization
« on: December 08, 2006, 05:01:49 PM »
Hey all,

Last week, during painting class, Pablo asked us to drop off all our paintings at the art building to be evaluated, and "pick them up next week," i.e. this week.  I left class after about an hour, since I was finished everything.  I only stayed to paint trim and signatures, put wires on the backs of my paintings, etc., while meanwhile, other people in the class were still finishing (or, in some cases, STARTING) their cubist paintings, when they were supposed to be finished their "open" projects, or at least close to it.  In case this makes no sense, here's the back story.  The semester consisted of four painting projects, first a monochrome still life, then a complementary colour painting (mine was the one of the white calla lilies that I posted on the previous E-hell forum), then a cubist painting, then an "open" project, where we could basically paint whatever we wanted.  I always made sure I had everything finished in time for the class critiques, so I could start the next project on time and not fall behind.  Sometimes this meant coming in after hours to paint on my own time, but I figured it was worth it, and I enjoy painting, so why not? 

Anyway......after I dropped off my paintings, I figured I'd just pick them up when I had a chance, so I stopped by on Monday or Tuesday afternoon when I had a free moment, and Pablo told me to "come back at the end of the week."  So, I went back there today, at about quarter after three in the afternoon, after I'd finished practicing, since it was, after all, the "end of the week," so I could pick up my work, and hopefully see how I did in the class, because Pablo doesn't grade our work as we finish it, but rather, all at once at the end.  It turned out that Pablo *wasn't* finished, and he told me to "come back on Monday."  Now, I'm writing my last exam tomorrow afternoon, so coming back on Monday will mean re-scheduling my travel plans from Sunday to Tuesday, while travelling on Sunday will mean leaving my paintings in the art building over the holidays, where they might get moved by people who are leaving later on, or misplaced somehow.  Also, I was hoping I could get Lara to take some pictures of my more recent stuff, so I could post them on here and show you guys.

For the record, I think Pablo's practice of grading everything at the end instead of throughout the semester is stupid, but I can see why he feels he has to do it that way, if he didn't, some people wouldn't have any marks, because they didn't finish anything.   Pablo even had to cut some stuff out of the semester, we were supposed to do another painting between our cubist projects and our open projects, called a "local colour study."  I still don't know what that is, because we didn't get to do it, because other people were behind.  Oh, and according to Pablo, the open project wasn't even technically mandatory, it was just "do it if you can, if/when you finish your cubist project."  So, my beefs with the whole thing are as follows:

1.  I finished doing my paintings when Pablo asked me to, so he should have finished marking them when he said he would.

2.  I know paintings take time, but four average-sized paintings (18 by 24 inches, or somewhere thereabouts) in almost three months (early September through the end of November) isn't really that much, especially if people paint on their own, between classes, which Pablo strongly encouraged us to do. 

3.  I don't think it's fair that the people who finished their cubist paintings in time should have had to miss out on the local colour study paintings because of the people who weren't finished.  I think Pablo should have just said something like, "People who are still working on your cubist paintings, keep cubing.  Now, for those of you who are finished, here's how we do a local colour study."  Or better yet, he could have just told the people who weren't done the cubist paintings that they had to leave those, finish on their own time, and move on. 

4.  Apparently, for the people who didn't finish all their paintings, Pablo isn't going to penalize them, but rather, just make the paintings they DID finish worth more, so someone who only did two or three out of the four assignments could end up with a better mark than me, and I did all four......and again, we were supposed to do five.  But anyway, by marking that way, Pablo is effectively telling people that it's okay not to finish all their work.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love painting, and Pablo is awesome, but how should I deal with this the next time it happens, since I'm planning on taking the next level of painting next semester?  Should I just suck it up and deal, or maybe take some initiative, like telling Pablo that I don't want to miss out on anything, and asking him to show me what to do to proceed with the next scheduled project, if I finish on time and others don't?  Or, would that be overstepping my bounds by telling him how to teach his class?  Like I said, he's passionate about art, and very knowledgeable as well, and he's a really nice guy, but I think that's the problem.  He's so concerned about being the prof that everyone likes, he just doesn't know how to set clear expectations and deadlines, for us OR for himself.

djinnidjream

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2006, 06:30:54 PM »
Can you ask Pable to store the paintings somewhere safe for you until you return?  That way you don't have to mess up your travel plans and your paintings won't get damaged.
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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2006, 06:38:21 PM »
Definitely make him take responsibility for storing your painting (since he was the one who kept it too late).  If you're curious about the assignment that never happened, maybe you can ask him (now or once next semester starts) to meet with you and show you what it would have been.  If you're genuinely interested in learning, it shouldn't be a problem - and you can do a painting on your own, not for a grade.  Which will probably help your technique if you're taking another semester of it.

Good luck!

freakyfemme

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2006, 12:23:33 AM »
Well, there are two issues here....the storing of my paintings, and the fact that Pablo seems to allow the class to be held hostage by people who don't finish their work, to the point that he not only doesn't penalize them for not being finished on time, but he slows the pace of the class down to accomodate them, and as a result, the people who *did* finish everything on time missed out on the local colour study painting.  When I asked how I did in the class (when I went to ask about picking up my paintings), he just said that he "thinks I did okay," in a sort of offhand manner.......I'm not expecting a great mark in that class now, I mean, I might have been expecting to do well before, but I'm not sure now.  I mean, he gave me subjective feedback throughout the year, but it was always things like, "Nice shading, Freaky," or "Try to use less black when you're outlining," or "Wow, you came early to get a head start, and I see you've done a lot on your painting since last class."  Those comments are helpful for the time I'm working on a specific painting, but I don't really know how Pablo evaluates the paintings, or how my paintings fit into that marking scheme.

Lady Vavasour

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2006, 01:11:12 AM »
Assuming that those who made an effort to get finished by the deadline had less time to work on their paintings, this grading scheme does seem unfairly to penalise those who did 4 paintings instead of 3. A fairer method of marking would be to allow the best 3 paintings only to count towards the grade. Perhaps you could suggest this to your teacher.

MadMadge43

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2006, 02:04:09 AM »
I could actually see waiting to grade them all at the end, to see the advancements the student made, see a general theme in their work etc...But I don't think Pablo is doing that here. I do tend to think it's because he wants everyone to do well and is bending to their work habbits.

With that being said, I once had a teacher in summer school who wouldn't tell us how we were to be graded. Drove us all crazy and we worked really hard because we had no idea how he was judging us. (Or at least I and others worked really hard, but not all of us).

On the last day of class we begged him to tell us what are grades were and he said, You all get A's. Because I really don't care. You got out of this class what you put into it and it's time that you learn that's more important than the grade. I have tried to take that sentiment into the rest of my life.

I got a lot out of that class and those who didn't put work into it, didn't. I think I won and I really don't care about the others. Maybe you should look at it that way. You're in college now, and it's time to learn, unless their actions are effecting yours it's really not of issue to you.

But it is rude not to have your paintings back in time for break.

MadMadge43

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2006, 02:23:13 AM »
Quote
3.  I don't think it's fair that the people who finished their cubist paintings in time should have had to miss out on the local colour study paintings because of the people who weren't finished.  I think Pablo should have just said something like, "People who are still working on your cubist paintings, keep cubing.  Now, for those of you who are finished, here's how we do a local colour study."  Or better yet, he could have just told the people who weren't done the cubist paintings that they had to leave those, finish on their own time, and move on.

This though does effect you, and I would bring it up with him that you missed out on a learning experience because of his inability to control the situation, and hope that in the future he does not make other students miss out on smililar opportunities.

Musicwoman

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2006, 02:48:43 AM »
Is this a "hobby" class or part of your formal studies?  If the former, the previous posters' suggestions could work.  If the latter, this guy needs his tail kicked but hard.  I have never heard of a professor who drops two pieces of work from the assessment schedule to accomodate the class slackers! 

You certainly do seem to have some dodgy professors, Freakyfemme.
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freakyfemme

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2006, 08:21:55 AM »
Is this a "hobby" class or part of your formal studies?  If the former, the previous posters' suggestions could work.  If the latter, this guy needs his tail kicked but hard.  I have never heard of a professor who drops two pieces of work from the assessment schedule to accomodate the class slackers! 

You certainly do seem to have some dodgy professors, Freakyfemme.

Well, I just took painting out of interest, but I *am* getting credit for it, so of course I want to do well.
 
Edited to add:  I also don't want to make too much of a fuss to Pablo and his higher-ups, because a lot of the people in the class are fine arts majors, and therefore paint much better than I do, and if I start yowling about how "I finished on time and it's not fair," then they might come back with, "Well, the other students may not have finished as many paintings, but theirs were better than yours, so they produced more art than you did, and you don't understand how the artistic process works, you can't RUUUUUSSSSSH it!!!!"  As for my profs, for the most part, they're good at what they do, and nice people as well, so when they do something wrong, it truly is an aberration.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2006, 08:32:48 AM by freakyfemme »

Tabris

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2006, 08:35:01 AM »
I agree with the other poster--you should have the option to drop a painting since the others are getting graded on only three.

Second thought: if he doesn't grade during the semester, how do you know whether you need to improve or not? one of the big things in the "squishy" subjects (like English in my case) was learning what your professor liked and didn't like so you could change the way you worked in order to accommodate that. (For example, the TA who gave me a C on a project because the story had an angel in it, and she said I should consider all those faiths that didn't have angels in them. Uh, it was a short story. I  had already asked for suspension of disbelief. If you can believe in martians in the story, you can believe in angels in the story. Thank you.) The next time I wrote for that TA, you can bet the story had no religious content whatsoever.

Well, how are you to know Pablo (Picasso's) likes and dislikes and the way he grades if he hasn't bothered grading you? You have no feedback on what to improve, what to avoid, and so on. That's going to negative affect not only your grade but also your ability to learn.

Is there anyone else with whom you can take Painting II?

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freakyfemme

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2006, 08:39:26 AM »
I could actually see waiting to grade them all at the end, to see the advancements the student made, see a general theme in their work etc...But I don't think Pablo is doing that here. I do tend to think it's because he wants everyone to do well and is bending to their work habbits.

With that being said, I once had a teacher in summer school who wouldn't tell us how we were to be graded. Drove us all crazy and we worked really hard because we had no idea how he was judging us. (Or at least I and others worked really hard, but not all of us).

On the last day of class we begged him to tell us what are grades were and he said, You all get A's. Because I really don't care. You got out of this class what you put into it and it's time that you learn that's more important than the grade. I have tried to take that sentiment into the rest of my life.

I got a lot out of that class and those who didn't put work into it, didn't. I think I won and I really don't care about the others. Maybe you should look at it that way. You're in college now, and it's time to learn, unless their actions are effecting yours it's really not of issue to you.

But it is rude not to have your paintings back in time for break.

I don't agree with that either.....you may think you "won," but so will the people who didn't do their work and got A's anyway, and that'll just teach them that they can get something for nothing.  I know that that doesn't directly affect you in the short run, but for me, I think Pablo's grading system just perpetuates the worst qualities of Bishop's, i.e. the idea that taking responsibility for one's life and obligations is optional.

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2006, 09:42:28 AM »
When I asked how I did in the class (when I went to ask about picking up my paintings), he just said that he "thinks I did okay," in a sort of offhand manner.......I'm not expecting a great mark in that class now, I mean, I might have been expecting to do well before, but I'm not sure now.  I mean, he gave me subjective feedback throughout the year, but it was always things like, "Nice shading, Freaky," or "Try to use less black when you're outlining," or "Wow, you came early to get a head start, and I see you've done a lot on your painting since last class."  Those comments are helpful for the time I'm working on a specific painting, but I don't really know how Pablo evaluates the paintings, or how my paintings fit into that marking scheme.
Personally, this kind of thing would scare the daylights out of me. I had a drawing teacher who never said much all semester - he was a nice friendly guy who would make generic comments about people's work, and that was it. He told me at the end of the year that I nearly failed. As I'm staring at him in total horror, he starts pointing out all the errors I had made in the drawings he was handing back, and all I could think was "Why the H--- didn't you tell me this before - I could have fixed that MONTHS AGO!!!!"

Since your class is not a "pass or die" type of thing, I wouldn't stress too much about it if I were you. Do ask him if he can put your paintings in a safe place till you can come to get them. And *after* he has graded you and the whole thing is done, you can tell him, nicely, that you would have liked to do the colour study, and maybe he could have let the faster students do it on their own as an extra credit project, rather than cut anything out of the class. I think this is about as much as you can hope for, since he doesn't sound like the kind of person who is going to start cracking the whip over these people.
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freakyfemme

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2006, 10:44:27 AM »
When I asked how I did in the class (when I went to ask about picking up my paintings), he just said that he "thinks I did okay," in a sort of offhand manner.......I'm not expecting a great mark in that class now, I mean, I might have been expecting to do well before, but I'm not sure now.  I mean, he gave me subjective feedback throughout the year, but it was always things like, "Nice shading, Freaky," or "Try to use less black when you're outlining," or "Wow, you came early to get a head start, and I see you've done a lot on your painting since last class."  Those comments are helpful for the time I'm working on a specific painting, but I don't really know how Pablo evaluates the paintings, or how my paintings fit into that marking scheme.
Personally, this kind of thing would scare the daylights out of me. I had a drawing teacher who never said much all semester - he was a nice friendly guy who would make generic comments about people's work, and that was it. He told me at the end of the year that I nearly failed. As I'm staring at him in total horror, he starts pointing out all the errors I had made in the drawings he was handing back, and all I could think was "Why the H--- didn't you tell me this before - I could have fixed that MONTHS AGO!!!!"

Since your class is not a "pass or die" type of thing, I wouldn't stress too much about it if I were you. Do ask him if he can put your paintings in a safe place till you can come to get them. And *after* he has graded you and the whole thing is done, you can tell him, nicely, that you would have liked to do the colour study, and maybe he could have let the faster students do it on their own as an extra credit project, rather than cut anything out of the class. I think this is about as much as you can hope for, since he doesn't sound like the kind of person who is going to start cracking the whip over these people.


That sounds like a good idea.....and I guess "cracking the whip" isn't really all that conducive to the creative process, is it?  I bet if he did that, other people would complain, so while it isn't fair, it's probably what works best for Pablo.

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2006, 11:12:27 AM »
****shudders**** (not at all delicately, either)

First - I have taught sewing and quilting classes.  The quilt classes *could* be considered art related - as color choices would influence how the quilt ended up looking.  If you show up with black, red, and yellow fabric for a class touted as teaching a baby quilt.......well, the baby will certainly get visual stimulation out of looking at the quilt.  But you might get some odd reactions from anyone old enough to TALK!!!

It bothered the bejabbers out of me that people would show up for that first class without ANY of their  supplies - no fabric, no scissors, no thread, no.....well, you get the idea.  It would be like showing up for an  art classes without a canvas, paint, and brushes or without paper and chalks - whatever the media was to be..........

There was a handout stating how much yardage in how many colors in 100% cotton woven fabric they needed for each project - that the fabric HAD to be machine washed and dried (a bad experience with fabric my MIL gave me as leftovers from one of her baby quilts) before class and the minimum tools needed.  I did not specify WHICH colors - except that a coordinating shade of red was needed for the central square in the Log Cabin based design (it represents the hearth of the cabin - red is tradtional for fire).

I had people show up for the first class with NOTHING or with fabric fresh from the store (never washed) but none of the tools (scissors, pins, needles, and thread) needed to use the fabric.  Yes - I had my scissors, pins, and needles with me - but I can't DEMO the technique while my tools are being passed around the table.  Some of them showed up for a second class, still without anything to work with........they never made it to a third class. 

Then there were the people who showed up to get the class handout (with the materials list, several design sketches, and the instructions on cutting & sewing), paid for the ONE class, and never showed up again.  It's a good thing I wasn't doing the classes to earn a living...........

Oh, gee whiz, how sidetracked can I get?

The point of all this is that the TEACHER needs to adjust the class grades to either allow you extra credit for completing more assignments or to deduct points for the assignments that the others did not complete.

If you want the paintings - you might see if Pablo would store them or let someone else pick them up, if there is anyone that you TRUST to get them to you after the break..........

« Last Edit: December 09, 2006, 06:09:12 PM by ReneeG1957 »



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jfulle5

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Re: Painting class and other people's disorganization
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2006, 11:22:03 AM »
Explain your travel plans and tell him you need them know. Right now you're just another student but if you tell him your constraints he might speed up your process.