Pre-Wedding "social"

[nliedel]

In this case it is a local custom and very much a part of the local tradition. A friend of mine is a northern Canuk and assures me that these are the social events for the town. I'd be shocked, but to each community, their own. It's just a part and parcel of who they are. Which does not mean I want one in MI! LOL

[LadyR]

I'm from rural Ontario and Jack and Jills are super common, DH is from a major city and until we started dating, he'd never been to one.

How they work where I'm from:
* They are generally held a month or two before the wedding.
* Word of mouth (in a community of 500, not hard) also the community centre has a bulletin board that advertises upcoming events.
* Tickets are about $10 or $15 per couple this gains entrance to the event, some food (usually finger food & cake), soft drinks, and a dance. Alcohol is usually sold much cheaper than a bar, but high enough that the B&G still profit. There are also games (about $1 a play) and raffles.
* Anyone in the community is welcome. Generally people take these as a chance to have a night out, as well as wish the B&G well. From experience there's a pretty wide age group, pretty much 19 (drinking age) to about 60. I have been to many J&Js where I haven't been invited to the wedding, but just wanted a fun night out or to wish a couple I liked well.
* The event is organized by the bridal party, who generally contribute prizes and so on. The B&G receive the profits, after the costs have been covered. Where I'm from it's not normal to get donations from the community.

As I said, to me, their the norm, but DH had a hard idea with the concept and still finds it weird. My explanation is that it's not so much a cash grab, as a community thing. It's seen as a nice night out, but also a way to wish a couple well, even if you may  not be close enough to go the wedding (example, you went to school together or your friends with their parents). I'm not sure they would work outside the rural setting, without that sense of community (where I'm from, most people have been there for generations, your grandparents went to school together).

[Ms_Shell]

This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." 

[Nurvingiel]

This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." 

This. I'm from BC so I don't have any experience with socials, but they sound like fun.

IMO saying that they're "no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is a huge overreaction to a harmless local custom.

I was under the impression that this board was generally about American etiquette. Etiquette is formed by culture and very much a part of it. If one is not Canadian, one is not qualified to evaluate or judge Canadian etiquette.

[Jan74]

"
This is a wedding not a company picnic or company Christmas party where that is expected."

Actually, IME, it's considered pretty poor taste to even have the employees pay for that - a holiday party is seen as a way for a company to thank the workers for their service during the year.  (Unless, of course, the company is downsizing left and right and if the workers wanted a party, they'd have to pay for it themselves.)

This year my husband's company charged a nominal fee ($3 per ticket) just as a forced RSVP deal. The years before, for every 100 that would RSVP, only about 40 would show up. They would order a catered dinner, as well as drinks, finger food, and rent a room big enough for them with enough waiters and bartenders, and even have a recreation area with a child monitor, all paid for, and then these people wouldn't show up.

This year, aside from all the things they already provide, they hired a live band to play with the proceeds from the nominal fee. I don't mind when it is like that, but yeah, if it were "Pay $40 cause that is how much we'll spend", I'd just decline.

[MadMadge43]

(2) We've also seen an alarming number of stories recently about people who believe it's perfectly acceptable to ask for entrance fees from their guests for parties, to defray the cost of food, drink and entertainment, and people have been wondering where they could have gotten the idea that this is acceptable. Probably from parties like this.

 

Well, I'm American and I can see places where this would be acceptable even in the States. Those are places where neighbors help each other out and don't expect people to go into debt to feed them. They understand that weddings cost and the whole community wants to help. I think it's kind of sweet. And also, in some of those small towns if anything is thrown people will come just for something to do. And to take that away from the community is considered rather rude.

Anyway on to the above quote. I think this is what the OP actually is complaining about. She said she's starting to see HC's treat their wedding in the same way. And I can't blame her, but I also can't blame the brides who are taught is acceptable in one form and not another. I can see why it could get confusing. So maybe this is why people have such a strong reaction to it, it's a slippery slope.

[Nurvingiel]

Well, a social is completely acceptable and not at all rude in Manitoba. Having a social there would be completely normal and wouldn't cause offence.

The exact same party in BC could offend people because it's not part of our customs. People might see it as a grab for cash and not a fun event, since around here it's not customary to have this type of fun event. So if it isn't a fun event, what is this new thing? Hey, they're selling tickets, so it must be a cash-grab.

Customs like this evolve naturally. You can't force them on people. Attempting to introduce the social widely in BC probably wouldn't work any more than telling Roughriders fans to cheer for the Lions would be effective. (It wouldn't. Those melon heads are dedicated. )

That doesn't mean that people are wrong or rude in Manitoba. They aren't.

They are no more rude than Canadians are for alllowing people to see the soles of their feet. In some Middle-eastern countries, this is a hugely offensive insult. Here, we just don't care. Does that mean we are rude? If there is a universal standard of etiquette, what is it? American? Middle-eastern? Canadian? We are only right in our respective countries. We can't apply our etiquette to another country and tell them they are wrong.

Such an attitude strikes me as colonial and a bit patronizing.

[baglady]

I grew up in a U.S. city that had a lot of Canadian immigrants (mostly Quebecois). Lots of people had Jack & Jills. They were *not* fundraisers to pay for the wedding. The money raised was to help a couple get started in married life. Think coed shower where people give money instead of stuff.*

Also: Quebecois = traditionally Roman Catholic culture = large families. Once all the aunts, uncles and cousins were invited to the wedding, there wasn't room on the guest list for a lot of friends. The J&J was a way for friends not close enough for a wedding invite, and the community at large, to wish the couple well and help them start out. As far as paying for the privilege, people pay to party all the time (cover charges, buying drinks at bars). This was no different, except the money goes to the HC.

*Of course, I haven't lived in that town for 35 years, so for all I know the J&Js these days are being used to raise money for wedding expenses -- given the "it's my daaaay!" mentality we keep reading about here, it wouldn't surprise me. But it would make me sad.

[NotCinderell]

Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.

[blahblahblah]

This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."  

This. I'm from BC so I don't have any experience with socials, but they sound like fun.

IMO saying that they're "no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is a huge overreaction to a harmless local custom.

I was under the impression that this board was generally about American etiquette. Etiquette is formed by culture and very much a part of it. If one is not Canadian, one is not qualified to evaluate or judge Canadian etiquette.

I also agree, speaking as an American. I think that this board can get awfully Americentric on occasion - yes, this board might trend towards being about American customs and etiquette, since most of the members appear to be American, but I think it'd be a lot better if people weren't so quick to brush off or deride customs that they weren't personally familiar with. The world does not revolve around us. I mean, yes, I'm not familiar with this sort of party myself, so admittedly the concept does sound odd to me personally, but whatever. I certainly don't think that this is evidence that people in parts of Manitoba have forgotten how to act like 'decent human beings.'

[DottyG]

some smaller communities, a social might be THE event of the month

The above is a very important part of the story.

Small communities (even in the US) have a certain culture that big cities don't.  My parents grew up in a very small town.  So, I've heard about how "community-oriented" things were there.

After college, they did live in Houston and San Antonio for many years.  But, they now are back in another small community.  I'm often tickled by the things my parents go to now!  They go to parties put on by the local club - just because "everyone was going to be there, so we went to see everyone!"  It'll be something that has nothing to do with them or their interests.  But, "everyone was there, so we went!"  And, honestly, that's how things are there!  If there's a party, people go!  They get to mingle with each other.

Small towns are vastly different than what we in big cities know.  There's a sense of "family" that you don't get when you live in a place with many thousands or more people.  There's a sense of familiarity that's present.  You KNOW the principal's mother's nephew's son, because he lives on the next street!  You go to church with the local grocery store owner and his family.  You see the boss' sister's husband every week at the school board meetings.

And, I can see how an event like this would be the "event everyone's talking about going to all month."  I don't see this as a fundraiser but as just another party type thing that you do with your small town's "family".

In a big city, yes.  It comes across differently - and grabby.  But, not in a small place with fewer residents who are using it as a chance to all socialize together.

[Surianne]

Small town Ontarian here.  Yep, they're really normal in certain areas and it's about the community getting together. 

They're shockingly a lot of fun -- and I'm a person who doesn't much care for wedding receptions or showers.  They're very casual and I have never, ever felt pressure to attend.  It's really fun to meet everyone in a completely casual atmosphere without having to be dressed up or on your best wedding behaviour!  I've actually gone to Stag & Does (or Jack & Jills) single without knowing anyone except the couple, and I've been welcomed by random folks and made a lot of new friends. 

At the last one, I ate so much delicious cake I thought I was going to die.  Definitely worth my $10 

[A_Bartlett]

Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.

But no one gets sent a personal invitation for these things, and no one is expected to RSVP.  Nobody is going to make them feel guilty for not going to a social.  If Grandma doesn't want to go to a social, no one is going to think she doesn't support the couple, it's not seen as a message.  

Many people who actually have experience with these parties have said that there's no pressure or obligation, and I'm confused as to why people who have no experience with them don't believe us.

It generally works out much cheaper for party goers than a night at a bar would.  And it's a lot of fun!  

It's no ruder than a bake-sale.  Or some sort of community dinner that earns a bit over the cost of food/hall rental.   Or a community theatre production.  It's less rude then pressuring people to buy over-priced cookies or wrapping paper from your kid.  It's as if girl guide cookies were actually cheaper than other store-bought cookies, and instead of someone coming to your door and putting you on the spot, there is just some word of mouth advertising that Susie down the street has some of these cookies, if you wanted to go over and get them.    Or, what it's not like, but actually is, is the choice on a Saturday night of going out to a bar, spending half as much to go to a hall for a social,  or spending half as much again to rent a movie and stay home... etc.

The one bit about it that I really don't get, is why the local merchants etc actually donate prizes for the raffles, because I agree that it's not a really "worthy" charity.  But I don't really "get" why people give expensive wedding gifts either, so I imagine it's a similar motivation.  

[Winter]

Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.

But no one gets sent a personal invitation for these things, and no one is expected to RSVP.  Nobody is going to make them feel guilty for not going to a social.  If Grandma doesn't want to go to a social, no one is going to think she doesn't support the couple, it's not seen as a message.  

Many people who actually have experience with these parties have said that there's no pressure or obligation, and I'm confused as to why people who have no experience with them don't believe us.

I'm from one of the socials-are-standard provinces, and I have to disagree with the there's-no-pressure statement. I'm at the age where heaps of friends are getting married. Many are having socials, and if I decline to go I definitely get leaned on - not necessarily by the couple themselves, but by their friends, family, and wedding party who are all selling tickets on their behalf and trying to make the most money for them. Even if you say you're busy that night, you're pressured to buy a ticket anyway just to support them with cash. Maybe it's more community-fun in rural area, but I'm in the largest city of one of those provinces, and to me they're cash grabs.

What hasn't been brought up yet is the pressure it puts on the wedding party too. As well as being pushed to sell tickets to everyone they know, I know someone in a wedding party who was informed that as a draw prize, he was to buy an XBox and donate it to them. He firmly declined.

That said, yes, they are very standard here and very socially acceptable by most people. When DF and I announced our engagement, one of the first questions we got was "When's your social?" and there was shock when we said there wasn't one. Anyone who pushed by saying "You'll make so much money!" was told that as we'd both worked for charities in the past with real needs, we didn't feel right holding a charity event for ourselves. We were quite comfortable paying for our own wedding. Hope it didn't sound short enough to cast us into Ehell...  

Edited because it's my first try quoting!

[A_Bartlett]

Even if you say you're busy that night, you're pressured to buy a ticket anyway just to support them with cash. Maybe it's more community-fun in rural area, but I'm in the largest city of one of those provinces, and to me they're cash grabs.

What hasn't been brought up yet is the pressure it puts on the wedding party too. As well as being pushed to sell tickets to everyone they know, I know someone in a wedding party who was informed that as a draw prize, he was to buy an XBox and donate it to them. He firmly declined.

Well, that is rude.

Wherever you are, they're doing it wrong. 

That's like a girl scout coming to your door, and if you say you don't want the cookies, hitting you up for the money anyway.  Plus an X-box. 

I think that you have an exceptionally rude group of "heaps of friends".