Author Topic: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)  (Read 27416 times)

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Venus193

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2008, 08:11:01 AM »
Why do I have a feeling that it was the pervert father who came up with this tradition?

Yeuch. :-X

Ditto.  I've never heard of this, either.

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2008, 01:30:35 PM »
Why do I have a feeling that it was the pervert father who came up with this tradition?

Yeuch. :-X

Ditto.  I've never heard of this, either.

Yeah, that was my take on the whole thing. I imagined the following squicky scenario, as details about the wedding and reception are bandied about:

Father: . . . and then, honey, at the reception, I'll put on your garter so that the groom can take it off.

Daughter: Um, Dad, I've never heard of that. I don't think that's a tradition.

Father: No, really, it is. I'm not making it up.

Daughter: I don't know . . .

Father: Oh, honey, come on now. Quit being silly.

Scritzy

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2008, 04:45:15 PM »
I have seen among my family and friends:

  • The brother of the groom putting the garter on the bride (the father was out of the picture).

  • The maid of honor putting the garter on the bride. When he saw the picture, the groom said he was creeped out.

I put on my own dang garter!
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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2008, 04:50:01 PM »
 :o Ew....EWWWW.....EEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!

No way, no how!  That's just totally WRONG!  There are some places daddy's hands don't belong - anything up the skirt would definately be included in that statement.

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ladycrim

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2008, 06:31:13 PM »
I did a cursory search on garter-tossing and found nothing that mentions the father.  I'd love to hear more details from the storyteller on this one.

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2008, 01:06:50 AM »
I can explain the tradition of the garter, and trust me, the original was a LOT worse.

In medieval times, after the ceremony, the bride was taken to the bridal chamber and stripped naked by her female family. A few moments later, the groom entered with the male members of the family. He too was stripped naked, but the bride's assets were shown to all the guests, while the groom's were not.

It was a visual verification of their wedding night (and assumed consummation) and of the bride's physical offerings.

Eventually, this decreased into the garter. Also, it was common to place the bloodied bedsheets over the fireplace in the main hall, to prove the groom's virility and the bride's virginity.

artk2002

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 01:12:44 AM »
I can explain the tradition of the garter, and trust me, the original was a LOT worse.

In medieval times, after the ceremony, the bride was taken to the bridal chamber and stripped naked by her female family. A few moments later, the groom entered with the male members of the family. He too was stripped naked, but the bride's assets were shown to all the guests, while the groom's were not.

It was a visual verification of their wedding night (and assumed consummation) and of the bride's physical offerings.

Eventually, this decreased into the garter. Also, it was common to place the bloodied bedsheets over the fireplace in the main hall, to prove the groom's virility and the bride's virginity.

Citation, please?
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morgana

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2008, 02:24:13 AM »
I don't know of citations so I can't help with that. But it is true, there was such a tradition as the bloody sheet. In Romania in the villages there was a practice, which I really hope stopped around the beginning of the 20th century (meaning I hope it's not done anywhere anymore) where during the wedding the groom and bride would withdraw to their room and hmmm do the deed. After which the bloody sheets would be brought out and shown to the guests in the traditional "dance of the sheet". YEAP, that's right. Many chickens had to die to cover up the shame  8)

As for the stripping I can also believe some of that. As the female body used to be in many cultures considered an important acquisition and people even paid for it (and in some cultures they still do), then the "goods" naturally required an inspection. One had to know they got the right value for the money. So from what I know in some cultures it would have been the future MIL who inspected the girl. Sometimes inspection went all the way to checking the virginity of the girl.

However I've never heard about the "check of consummation".  ???
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 02:27:23 AM by morgana »

Carolingian

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2008, 05:18:03 AM »
However I've never heard about the "check of consummation".  ???

Well, as consummation was an important part of what made a marriage valid in the Middle Ages, it was important that witnesses saw the bridegroom and the bride going to bed together (like in this 15th century picture (don't worry, it is pretty tame and even has a priest blessing the newlyweds in their bed). The exact customs probably varied from region to region.

morgana

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2008, 05:28:53 AM »
However I've never heard about the "check of consummation".  ???

Well, as consummation was an important part of what made a marriage valid in the Middle Ages, it was important that witnesses saw the bridegroom and the bride going to bed together (like in this 15th century picture (don't worry, it is pretty tame and even has a priest blessing the newlyweds in their bed). The exact customs probably varied from region to region.

Of that I know. And if you want to refer to the bed of kings and queens, those were permanently attended anyway and so not much privacy there. Generally yes, there was this tradition of seeing the newly weds to bed, giving them the blessings, dressing them and so on, but my knowledge stops here. I don't believe there was an actual witnessing of the act by any of the parents or religious faces. In fact, that's what the bloody sheets were for, to provide proof of consummation. I also have never heard of a "next day virginity check". Again, the blood on the sheets would be sufficient evidence.

Wow, how did we get into all this? And how do we get out? :)

Venus193

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 07:44:41 AM »
I think this all speaks to the creep factor of the original subject of this thread.  The whole idea of the bloody sheet is so ridiculous as well, since most women's hymens didn't bleed.

We should all be glad to have been born in the 20th century.

Calbrini

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2008, 08:03:59 AM »
I have heard of some old custom where the brides dad would give the groom a pair of the brides shoes to show he now 'owned' the bride. i think I also read that sometimes the grrom would hit the bride on the head with one of the shoes in front of her dad to show he was now the boss! as I read this a long tme ago in school I cant remember what culture/ country it was or what period in history.

Anyone else heard of this?

hermanne

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 08:44:47 AM »
snopes.com has a section on bridal lore and customs.

http://www.snopes.com/weddings/customs/customs.asp
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caranfin

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 08:45:48 AM »
I have seen among my family and friends:

  • The brother of the groom putting the garter on the bride (the father was out of the picture).

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would think this is a good idea, and I just... can't.
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.

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Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 04:25:05 PM »
I think this all speaks to the creep factor of the original subject of this thread.  The whole idea of the bloody sheet is so ridiculous as well, since most women's hymens didn't bleed.


Add to that, a woman could be far from a virgin & still have some spotting or bleeding during intercourse.