Author Topic: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)  (Read 28009 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LTrew

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 307
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2008, 09:41:34 AM »
I have seen among my family and friends:
  • The maid of honor putting the garter on the bride. When he saw the picture, the groom said he was creeped out.

I did put the garter on my sister a few weeks ago (and I was the MOH)  but it was only because we'd gotten her into the dress already when we realized we'd forgotten to put the stockings on at all, so we had to upend the skirts and help her out. We certainly didn't take pictures though!

accio_books

  • Guest
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2008, 10:32:27 AM »
Why do I have a feeling that it was the pervert father who came up with this tradition?

Yeuch. :-X

In view of the father's history of molestation, that was my take on it too. How awful that he got away with it.

wordgirl

  • Ponytail time
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6550
  • Coca-Cola, cake and single-malt Scotch--I'm happy!
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2008, 04:19:47 PM »
The garter tradition I'm familiar with - and that I assumed this thread was about - doesn't involve the father of the bride at all. Instead, it's the rather disgusting "ceremony" that too often follows the bouquet toss and the garter toss, where the catcher of the garter is urged to position said accessory on the leg of the woman who caught the bouquet.

Meanwhile, the guests are expected to scream "higher, higher," urging that the garter be moved further up the woman's thigh. Apparently this is meant to convey some sort of luck/affluence/whatever to the newly married couple, so it's the garter-catcher's "duty" to slide the garter up pretty high (this is bushwah, of course - the real motivation seems to be purely titillation.)

At the last wedding I went to, both bouquet-catcher and garter-catcher were of age, and the garter-catcher was pretty decorous - he only slid it halfway up her shin. But I remember one wedding where the girl who caught the bouquet was barely 14, and the garter ended well above her knee - despite the fact that the girl (who just happens to be my beloved niece) was visibly on the edge of humiliated tears. And her mom did nothing to stop it!

Eloe

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2008, 05:51:04 AM »
However I've never heard about the "check of consummation".  ???

Well, as consummation was an important part of what made a marriage valid in the Middle Ages, it was important that witnesses saw the bridegroom and the bride going to bed together (like in this 15th century picture (don't worry, it is pretty tame and even has a priest blessing the newlyweds in their bed). The exact customs probably varied from region to region.

Of that I know. And if you want to refer to the bed of kings and queens, those were permanently attended anyway and so not much privacy there. Generally yes, there was this tradition of seeing the newly weds to bed, giving them the blessings, dressing them and so on, but my knowledge stops here. I don't believe there was an actual witnessing of the act by any of the parents or religious faces. In fact, that's what the bloody sheets were for, to provide proof of consummation. I also have never heard of a "next day virginity check". Again, the blood on the sheets would be sufficient evidence.


In early Middle Ages the royal (and, I suppose, high aristocracy - back then it could be hard to distinguish between the two, anyway) wedding consummation was, in fact, attended by several witnesses. It was a way of ensuring that a) the marriage was, in fact, consummated and b) it was consummated by the appropriate persons (see the stroy of Tristan and Iseult as an example of why it did not have to be the case) and any resulting offspring would have the required lineage. As far as I know (sorry, no citation, I'm referencing several books from memory and I'm at work anyway) it was not performed in view of all the guests, just a couple of highly respected officials, like the archbishop. I imagine the bride and groom were actually under some sort of covers. Later the bride and groom were just ceremoniuosly put in one bed, in their nightclothes, and there were no witnesses to any further proceedings. In fact, the further proceedings did not necessarily have to take place (see "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" by Antonia Fraser for example).

I have never heard of a tradition of stripping the newlyweds naked in front of all the guests. If there was such a tradition, it must have been very local.

There were various ways of checking the virginity of the bride. Still are, in fact. At Spanish Gypsy weddings (sorry, I'm not sure what is the official word for Gypsies now - Roms? Romany?) the eldest female in the grooms family performs the check using her finger and a white handkerchief. If there is blood, the feast may begin. Otherwise, there will be fighting.

housewife2k

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7659
  • I want to be a Pirate AND a Ninja!
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2008, 01:55:58 PM »
There were various ways of checking the virginity of the bride. Still are, in fact. At Spanish Gypsy weddings (sorry, I'm not sure what is the official word for Gypsies now - Roms? Romany?) the eldest female in the grooms family performs the check using her finger and a white handkerchief. If there is blood, the feast may begin. Otherwise, there will be fighting.
Rom, Roma, or Romani, we really don't object strenuously to Gypsy, and even use it ourselves, when it's obvious it's not being used as an insult, or to be cruel. Add to that, the Roma from different regions have different 'titles', it can get really confusing. In my family, we would rather be called Gyspy or Rom or Roma that be called by the moniker used for a different region.

KCee

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2067
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2008, 03:30:28 PM »
While I do find the Mexican(?) tradition on the daughter's 15th birthday where the father changes her flat shoes for heels is very touching, sweet, and symbolic...... going from little girl to Young Lady....





This sounds like a really sweet thing.

 I don't like garters even without the father thing added in. I have never participated in a bouquet toss because I do NOT want to end up having to have a garter put on me!

Niona

  • Guest
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2008, 08:43:45 PM »
We don't do the garter thing in the UK. I just feel odd about the whole thing - it just seems to me to be a very sexualised thing that doesn't rightly belong in a celebration of love and commitment. If I read it correctly, the garter thing symbolises the groom undressing the bride later on and I just feel that places too much emphasis on marriage purely for sex, and not marriage of love. I really don't want to see the groom undressing the bride, even if it is just symbolic.

It was once custom for the bride and groom to be escorted to the royal bedchamber (the film Marie Atoinnette showed this) and then left alone to consumate the royal deed, and I suppose the garter i some sort of modern equivalent. But still, I find it ..icky.

Eloe

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2008, 03:57:27 AM »

It was once custom for the bride and groom to be escorted to the royal bedchamber (the film Marie Atoinnette showed this) and then left alone to consumate the royal deed, and I suppose the garter i some sort of modern equivalent. But still, I find it ..icky.

But it was purely symbolic - as far as I know, their marriage was not consummated until years afterwards. That is, I haven't seen the movie, but I read some good biographies.

We don't have any garters-related activities at our weddings here either. In fact, it took me a while to figure out what exactly it involves. There are some games, bride throws her veil and the groom throws his tie. No undergarments are involved.

Niona

  • Guest
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2008, 07:41:39 AM »

It was once custom for the bride and groom to be escorted to the royal bedchamber (the film Marie Atoinnette showed this) and then left alone to consumate the royal deed, and I suppose the garter i some sort of modern equivalent. But still, I find it ..icky.

But it was purely symbolic - as far as I know, their marriage was not consummated until years afterwards. That is, I haven't seen the movie, but I read some good biographies.

We don't have any garters-related activities at our weddings here either. In fact, it took me a while to figure out what exactly it involves. There are some games, bride throws her veil and the groom throws his tie. No undergarments are involved.

No, itwasn't consumated for years, but they did escort them to the bedchamber, put them in bed together, and made some lewd jokes, so they were there right up until the last minute. (I'm not surprised they had problems after that - btw, the film is based on the Antonia Fraser biography, and it's actually pretty good - a lot of the parts of it the people lambasted for being unrealistic actually happened).

I've never heard of a bride throwing her veil - here it's often kept in tissue paper and handed down through the generations to the next bride. As for grooms throwing the tie - well, they often do that, but only because they're merry, I don't think it's an actual tradition!

Calypso

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2747
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2008, 02:12:04 PM »

Well, as consummation was an important part of what made a marriage valid in the Middle Ages, it was important that witnesses saw the bridegroom and the bride going to bed together (like in this 15th century picture (don't worry, it is pretty tame and even has a priest blessing the newlyweds in their bed). The exact customs probably varied from region to region.

It cracks me up, Carolingian, that the bride is still wearing her hat in the picture!  :D

Calbrini

  • Guest
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2008, 11:45:11 AM »
I recently saw an old film called 'The wicked Lady' on TV and there was a wedding scene in it, not sure of the peroid in time it was set in, sometime in the 17th -18th century. Sometime during the wedding dance the bride was taken upstairs by her bridesmids and dresed in nightclothes and put in bed. Then the grom was taken to the room and had to knock on the door to be told that his brde was awaiting him!

not sure if it was historically accurate but she didnt look very happy!

Kimblee

  • I look good in white....
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6696
  • "Hugs don't go Boom." "They don't? Since when?"
    • My Blog
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2008, 02:35:33 AM »
I have never, never heard of the father putting onthe garter! That just...eewwwwwweeeeewwwweeeewww.

I am sorry, but there are somehings afather just shouldn ot do, and putting a garter on his daughter is on that list.

Huge POD on that.

It's OK for a daddy to help his girl get dressed when she's a toddler but once she starts running into the tween age that's just plain wrong.  (Unless she has some sort of disability that keeps her from dressing herself.)

Having him put anything on her in public is twice as gross.

My dad was not a pervert and I'd still be grossed out by him putting on a garter!



yeah. normally garters are daddy no-man's land.

But on the other hand, my poor father has put KNEE garters on me. (They are like ribbons on little stockings, but they tie right below your knee cap. For me, they are a costume item.

I had a sprained wrist so he had to tie them for me, i put them on myself. (I was alice in wonderland for a kid's library charity.)

Thigh garters?

EWW!

I think even if i lost both arms my father wouldn't do that for me.

Might ask ym stepmom to though... but only if I was missing BOTH arms.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/Sassycelticmoon
<a href="http://knitmeter.com/" title="Get Your Own KnitMeter">" border="0[/url]

Kimblee

  • I look good in white....
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6696
  • "Hugs don't go Boom." "They don't? Since when?"
    • My Blog
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2008, 02:37:34 AM »
Quote
Why do I have a feeling that it was the pervert father who came up with this tradition?

You're not the only one. I've heard it's traditional for the mother to arrange the veil on the bride, but I'm pretty sure the father has no part in dressing her. Especially not something as icky as this 'tradition'.

Actually, I had heard is WAS the father's duty to arrange the veil. He lifts it down over the bride's head just ebfore excorting her down the isle.

My cousin's father did that. Of course, my cousin doesn't have a mom, so maybe he was filling in for the mother.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/Sassycelticmoon
<a href="http://knitmeter.com/" title="Get Your Own KnitMeter">" border="0[/url]

Roe

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6456
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2008, 11:03:01 AM »
This is the quick info I found about the garter tradition.

http://www.wedalert.com/content/articles/tale_tossing_of_the_garter.asp

Kendo_Bunny

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2688
  • I'm inquisitive!
Re: Garter creepiness (PlainTacky0415-04)
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2008, 02:36:20 PM »
That just sounds sick. I plan on wearing garters, but no one is going to know except me and the groom. I'm not a fan of the garter toss- I only saw it at my stepsister's wedding, where the DJ played 'The Stripper' as it was taken off and put on one of the other bridesmaids. I was glad I didn't catch the bouquet, because I would never let any man but my sweetheart put any article of underclothes on me.