Okay, this one REALLY bugged me...

[Brentwood]

The writer does not need to be so "proud" of her virginity that she trumpets it to all and sundry. She should also be aware that wearing white for one's wedding is not a "right" that is "earned" only by and for virgins. The fact that she waited until marriage matters not a whit to me; it's her attitude that is unpleasant, not her virginity.

Why can't she be, when so many people are "proud" of how many sexual partners they have?

The wearing of white is irrelevant - she made a moral decision, and stayed with it, even if it was difficult.

1. I don't believe anyone should be trumpeting their sex lives to everyone, regardless of whether they've had zero partners or fifty partners.

2. I think the wearing of white is irrelevant also, but the submitter of the story evidently does not find it irrelevant. That was what I found offensive - that she seems to think she has "earned" the "right" to wear white at her wedding by virtue of remaining celibate until marriage. Wearing white is not a "right" bestowed only upon the virginal.  I think her wearing white is irrelevant to the issue of her virginity, and neither has anything to do with the issue of her parents having offered to pay for a courthouse wedding.

[Twik]

Again, I got the sense that it's not "I was a virgin - I'm better than everyone else", but "I was a good daughter, I worked hard to do everything right and to make my parents proud, to never embarrass them, and they don't appreciate it".

Sadly, the reason the parents didn't initially offer to pay for a wedding is that they may have been tapped out paying for law school. They may drive their neighbors batty talking about "our daughter, the law student, who's marrying a wonderful man". But I sense the daughter doesn't perceive it.

[Brentwood]

Again, I got the sense that it's not "I was a virgin - I'm better than everyone else", but "I was a good daughter, I worked hard to do everything right and to make my parents proud, to never embarrass them, and they don't appreciate it".

Sadly, the reason the parents didn't initially offer to pay for a wedding is that they may have been tapped out paying for law school. They may drive their neighbors batty talking about "our daughter, the law student, who's marrying a wonderful man". But I sense the daughter doesn't perceive it.

I can only go by what she actually said, which is that she was proud of her "hard-earned, undisputed right" to wear white. There is no spin on that statement that will make it not rub me the wrong way.

[PurpleyBlue]

Again, I got the sense that it's not "I was a virgin - I'm better than everyone else", but "I was a good daughter, I worked hard to do everything right and to make my parents proud, to never embarrass them, and they don't appreciate it".

I don't think that I agree that her parents suggested this type of wedding because they don't appreciate her.  They wanted to give her basically the exact wedding that they had (if you switch the church for the JOP).  Obviously, since it was what they did, they see nothing wrong with a small affair.  I just don't think we can automatically assume the they are being passive agressive because they didn't offer to throw a huge extravagansa.  If they themselves had had a huge wedding blow out it would be a different story.  Then I would definately think they were suggesting that to send a message.

[Hawkwatcher]

Squeaks,

I agree it would have been nice  of the parents to ask the bride for her input.  However, they had every right to say, "This is what we're willing to pay for."  And if the bride and groom didn't like it they should have paid for everything themselves.

I don't like the implication that they would hold the wedding elsewhere in order to let it be known that the parents were too cheap to give them the wedding they wanted.   They could have just as easily said, "Would you be willing to contribute the same amount of money you originally intended for this wedding towards something else that is more of what we had in mind?"  Instead they strong armed them for more money so they could have the wedding they wanted (which, I agree - they should decide what they want but they should also be prepared to pay for it themselves).  Just not right.  Like you said  - "basically blackmail".  That was what bothered me.

Had the bride and groom waited until the bride had a job and saved up some money, they probably could have had the wedding of their dreams.  Unfortunately, I think they got too hung up on the various traditions including the tradition of the parents paying for the wedding.  Hopefully, they did not do too much damage to their relationship with her parents in the name of tradition.

[Shoo]

Had the bride and groom waited until the bride had a job and saved up some money, they probably could have had the wedding of their dreams. 

If more people did this, or if ALL people did this, a lot of problems would be solved.

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

My own niece and her now dh were that way.  No amount of logic could dissuade them.  It was maddening.

Don't even get me started on couples who insist on getting married and then don't even have the financial means to live on their own and end up living with their parents.  And, of course, they start having babies....   Grrrrrrrrr.

[pryncsskittyn]

Had the bride and groom waited until the bride had a job and saved up some money, they probably could have had the wedding of their dreams. 

If more people did this, or if ALL people did this, a lot of problems would be solved.

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

My own niece and her now dh were that way.  No amount of logic could dissuade them.  It was maddening.

Just to put a little insight.  I myself am getting married now, instead of later due to the fact that my Grandmother is in a nursing home and isn't expected to live many more years.  I'm not "rushing" it, but I can say I've chosen my wedding location to be my home state instead of where I live now so that she will be able to attend.  I know not everyone falls into the category of these circumstances, but some people do get married "when they want to" rather than waiting for finances to be "perfect" because of a desire to include a loved family member that might not have all the time in the world.  I've seena few stories on here where a father or mother is sick or dying and they push up the wedding date to accomodate that persons health problems.

[Bob Ducca]

Had the bride and groom waited until the bride had a job and saved up some money, they probably could have had the wedding of their dreams. 

If more people did this, or if ALL people did this, a lot of problems would be solved.

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

My own niece and her now dh were that way.  No amount of logic could dissuade them.  It was maddening.

Just to put a little insight.  I myself am getting married now, instead of later due to the fact that my Grandmother is in a nursing home and isn't expected to live many more years.  I'm not "rushing" it, but I can say I've chosen my wedding location to be my home state instead of where I live now so that she will be able to attend.  I know not everyone falls into the category of these circumstances, but some people do get married "when they want to" rather than waiting for finances to be "perfect" because of a desire to include a loved family member that might not have all the time in the world.  I've seena few stories on here where a father or mother is sick or dying and they push up the wedding date to accomodate that persons health problems.

I would never dispute someone's right to get married whenever he or she pleases, for any reason, or no reason at all.  What you are doing with your wedding is undoubtedly the right thing to do.

What we are objecting to is the situation that arises when a couple decides to marry before they are financially ready, yet expect that other people sacrifice and pay for their "dream wedding" instead of scaling back and having a wedding that is simpler and more affordable.  DH and I married before we finished college, but we had a simple morning ceremony and paid for it ourselves.

Some people say they are "cheated" if they don't have a big white wedding with all the trimmings, and expect their families to go into debt, if necessary, to provide them with it.  That is what we are objecting to.  If you decide to marry before your finances are "perfect," as you say, then, logically, a consequence of that would be that you spend less on a wedding now than you would five years from now. 

People who are mature enough to marry should be mature enough to bear the consequences of their actions.  If the choice is, marry now so all the family can be there but have a simpler wedding, or have the dream wedding in five years but take the chance that Granny won't live that long, then I think the mature couple makes the decision and lives with it.  The immature couple, on the other hand, decides to get married now but "make" mommy and daddy pay so they can still have the dream wedding (and please note I said "make," because if your parents WANT to pay for your wedding that is fine).  I hope I was clear- it is hard to cover all the bases without offending someone.

Deb   

[MC Clapyohanz]

Everyone here is up in arms about the bride's comments on her virginity & the shakedown of her parents by her FH (which I totally didn't see the who shakedown angle, I don't know why, since she mentioned he was big & menacing. I just thought that was weird to mention, but after reading others' posts, I see it now. Palm, meet forehead).

I'm upset that she made everyone wait because she didn't have her stupid flowers. I get the whole 'they paid for it' angle, but it's not like the flowers were an important part of the wedding ceremony. I'd be pissed that I didn't have the flowers that I'd paid for on time, but to make everyone wait because of it? No. I'd go get married. Then I'd go rip the flower people new ones.

By the way, I got married at the county records building (tax, birth/death/marriage certs., etc.) and it was very nice. They had a small archway on the lawn in front of the building that had plants around it. Also, the harbor was right across the street, so that helped too.  Plus it's here in Southern CA. We could've done it in the little room they provide for such ceremonies, but we weren't going to do that! Not when we live in S. CA & have a beautiful July day outside! That & my husband's immediate family is large & there wouldn't be enough room for everyone. Outside was much better.

Can't you have a JP come to your venue if you don't want a religious wedding (which we did not want)?

[DottyG]

I'm upset that she made everyone wait because she didn't have her stupid flowers. I get the whole 'they paid for it' angle, but it's not like the flowers were an important part of the wedding ceremony. I'd be pissed that I didn't have the flowers that I'd paid for on time, but to make everyone wait because of it? No. I'd go get married. Then I'd go rip the flower people new ones.

Agreed.  Did you see the Bridezillas episode where the flowers weren't delivered?  The bride acted like the wedding couldn't continue - even after the groom and groomsmen graciously made her really sweet bouquets to use in their place.

You just want to scream, "ARE YOU MARRYING A BUNCH OF FLOWERS OR A MAN THAT YOU ADORE?  Get your priorities in line here, woman!"

[LJM]

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

Well, if you're determined to have absolutely no sex until after the marriage, then "waiting a few years" could be a rather overwhelming prospect.



(This has, of course, resulted in many an unhappy marriage where people mistake the first blush of infatuation and desire for eternal love, get married because it's the only way to consummate it-- then two years later maybe they find they have something genuine to base a relationship on, and maybe not. Rushing into marriage to avoid premarital sex has created many years of misery for many people.)

[Suze]

Agreed.  Did you see the Bridezillas episode where the flowers weren't delivered?  The bride acted like the wedding couldn't continue - even after the groom and groomsmen graciously made her really sweet bouquets to use in their place.

You just want to scream, "ARE YOU MARRYING A BUNCH OF FLOWERS OR A MAN THAT YOU ADORE?  Get your priorities in line here, woman!"

and that is why I would prefer to have silk flowers than live.

You can make sure they are with you and can even have them done months in advance.

[Twik]

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

Well, if you're determined to have absolutely no sex until after the marriage, then "waiting a few years" could be a rather overwhelming prospect.



(This has, of course, resulted in many an unhappy marriage where people mistake the first blush of infatuation and desire for eternal love, get married because it's the only way to consummate it-- then two years later maybe they find they have something genuine to base a relationship on, and maybe not. Rushing into marriage to avoid premarital sex has created many years of misery for many people.)

As opposed to the minor problem of breaking up with someone you've been living with and having sex with (perhaps even children with) for two years without being married.

Because THAT never hurts at all.

[LJM]

As opposed to the minor problem of breaking up with someone you've been living with and having sex with (perhaps even children with) for two years without being married.

Because THAT never hurts at all.

Any decision can be made for good/healthy reasons, or bad/unhealthy reasons.

There are plenty of people who for healthy reasons wait until marriage to have sex, have a wonderful relationship with their spouse, and are very glad they waited.

There are others who rush into marriage because they feel it's a pre-requirement for sex, and end up in miserable marriages.

There are plenty of people who have sex before marriage because they have a close and committed relationship with their partner, and have no regrets. Their relationship continues to grow an deepen in it's own way its own time.

There are others who rush into sex before they are ready and end up getting burned badly by it, and hurt very deeply.

I gather from your snark that you took my comment to be snarky-- but that is not what I indended, and I'm sorry if I came across that way.

[Twik]

No, I did not think your reply was snarky. I do still interpret your post as saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is more likely to be detrimental to the relationship than having sex before marriage. Indeed, that it is in fact unhealthy. Other commentators here have suggested that people who CAN wait for sex until marriage "just aren't interested in sex".

I'm just a little sad that the sexual revolution was supposed to bring in an age of choice. Instead, it's become a case of whatever is not prohibited is mandatory.