Okay, this one REALLY bugged me...

[Brentwood]

No, I did not think your reply was snarky. I do still interpret your post as saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is more likely to be detrimental to the relationship than having sex before marriage. Indeed, that it is in fact unhealthy. Other commentators here have suggested that people who CAN wait for sex until marriage "just aren't interested in sex".

I'm just a little sad that the sexual revolution was supposed to bring in an age of choice. Instead, it's become a case of whatever is not prohibited is mandatory.

I hope she will forgive me for speaking for her, but I did not interpret her words as "saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is more likely to be detrimental to the relationship..."

I interpreted her as saying that rushing to marry someone in order to have sex is not a good idea. In other words, not waiting or waiting for the right person, but allowing hormones to dictate the wedding.

[supernova]

I interpreted her as saying that rushing to marry someone in order to have sex is not a good idea. In other words, not waiting or waiting for the right person, but allowing hormones to dictate the wedding.

Cathy, that's how I read it too.  No offense meant to anyone.

Wasn't there a story in the archives about a (fairly young) bride bragging about all the great sex she and Groom couldn't wait to have, including doing an R-rated kiss at the altar and then commenting on it, and divorcing fairly soon after?  I seem to remember something like that.

That attitude was what I thought the poster was referring to, not to the young couples in love who wait through a long engagement because of their personal beliefs.

     - saphie

[LJM]

I'm just a little sad that the sexual revolution was supposed to bring in an age of choice. Instead, it's become a case of whatever is not prohibited is mandatory.

Where did I say that people should never wait? I said that sometimes waiting is the right decision, if it's done for the right reasons, and sometimes it's the wrong decision, if it's done for the wrong reasons. The same is true for not-waiting.

As CathyF says, I was just stating that *sometimes* this can cause hormones to dictate the wedding (whether the couple realize this is what's happening or not.) I have no idea what percentage of the time this happens, and I don't claim to.

The situation I was referring to obeys the letter of the "wait until marriage" rule but not it's spirit, so it says nothing one way or the other about people who are obeying the spirit of the rule as well.

No, I did not think your reply was snarky. I do still interpret your post as saying that waiting until marriage to have sex is more likely to be detrimental to the relationship than having sex before marriage.

I have no idea what the statistics would be-- And there are so many factors that it is hard for statistics to take into account that I'm not sure statistics would help. Not only am I not making any claims about what's "more likely", I don't even have an opinion. I Think that the reasons behind the decision are more important than the decision itself.

We all have opinions that are swayed by the experiences of ourselves and those closest to us. But this is never a "random sample", so the opinions are necessarily based on biased data-- I fully admit this. If the rush-into-marriage thing came across more strongly, it's not because I think it's "more likely", but because it hits closer to home, and aligns with examples of unhappy marriages I saw growing up.

In any event, a couple that is moving at a measured pace towards marriage but waiting until they get there to have sex is clearly not falling into the "rushing into marriage" trap I'm mentioning here. A couple that is moving towards marriage in what seems to me to be like a rush? Well, who am I to say? Just because I wouldn't be comfortable marrying someone that quickly doesn't mean it won't work for them.

[Twik]

Then I admit I misunderstood your post, and I apologize.

[LJM]

Then I admit I misunderstood your post, and I apologize.

I can see how it might have come across wrong, especially if you were already feeling a bit defensive before reading it 

[LuckyDucky]

I remember seeing a story advertised on a current affairs program here in Aus about two teenagers who wanted to get married before they were legally allowed to (I think they were 17, legal age here is 18).

They had their parents consent, but they had to get legal consent from a judge.  He wouldn't give it to them.  So instead of waiting a year to be legally allowed to marry, they sold their story. 

The reason they couldn't wait to marry?  They wanted to have sex NOW.  They had sworn that they would wait until they were married, but the temptation proved too much for them, so they were trying to bend the law just so they could have some fun. 

I didn't watch this program as I knew that I would spend the evening ranting about it to the cat, who could care less.

[BrightEyes85]

I had a friend who got married last summer. She was always very into the waiting until marriage thing, which I respected. However, she met a man at church the summer before and by Christmas, they were engaged.

I really don't think either one of them was ready for marriage. For one, she needed help planning every aspect of the wedding, to the point where some of the ladies at church had to take over (or there would've been no wedding at all!). After the planning sessions she would go home, call her mother, and cry about how hard it was to plan a wedding (we've all been there, but every week for six months?!) And although she asked me to be a bridesmaid, the only information I ever got I had to DRAG out of her (as in, leaving five messages or attempting to catch her on her break at work. It would take a month to get a simple question answered.). I never received an invitation, so this is how I had to find out about the wedding date. There were a number of other things that proved she definitely wasn't mature enough to get married throughout the course of the wedding weekend.

Last time we got together for lunch, she told me that they're planning to move to New York* (they both currently have slightly-above-min-wage jobs) so that her husband can pursue his dream of becoming a musician*. Maybe I'm being judgmental, but isn't that something you do when you're single or have a nest egg to fall back on? Or at the very least one of you has a job that you can get by on?

Anyhow, the whole point of this story is that I really don't think she was ready for marriage (not that it's my call to make). But everyone had a good idea of why those two got married so quickly, and it certainly wasn't for insurance purposes.

Maybe this counts as anecdotal evidence?

*details changed

[Gyro Widget]

This story mortified me as well, I also nearly fell off my seat laughing with the whole "hard earned right" to wear a white wedding dress.  As if those *tsk, tsk* naughty girls who did not wait for marriage has no right to wear white!

Yes, I do believe that parents should help out financially if they can... but it seems quite obvious that big weddings aren't the "thing" with that family.  They offered her $2000 afterall... my goodness, how much more does she want?  The rest of us would be thankful for that and just scrimp and save for the rest (or cut back on the guest list!!)

[kingsrings]

This is exactly why pre-marital counseling is a must, so that people can be sure they are getting married for all of the right reasons.

[litecandles]

I am proud of this bride for waiting and she can be proud too.

I see no difference in her sharing her sexuality, than a poster bragging how they were pregnant before or during their wedding. That is so plain and obvious what their sexuality was.

[TZ]

I am proud of this bride for waiting and she can be proud too.

I see no difference in her sharing her sexuality, than a poster bragging how they were pregnant before or during their wedding. That is so plain and obvious what their sexuality was.

People who have children aren't doing so as a means of announcing, "Look at me!  I had sex!"  If they talked about the child's conception, they would definitely be rude.  The bride in this story is making a definite statement about her sex life (or lack thereof).  There is a huge difference between these two situations.  Nobody is disputing her right to be proud.  They just don't want to hear about it.  By the logic in your post, it would be rude to go on a honeymoon because people will assume that the couple is having sex on their trip.

[litecandles]

Not quite, but by my logic a pregnant bride is bragging about the sex life by mentioning the pregnancy in the first place.

[Blurgle]

Not quite, but by my logic a pregnant bride is bragging about the sex life by mentioning the pregnancy in the first place.

So is a pregnant woman who is married bragging about the sex life if she mentions her pregnancy? Or are people only bragging if they don't follow one specific set of rules which they themselves may consider immoral?

[TZ]

So is a pregnant woman not supposed to mention that she is pregnant?  What if she is visibly pregnant?  Is this an affront to decent people because her physical appearance announces her sex life to the world?  Is an unmarried woman with a child supposed to keep the child hidden away?  What are the logical limits here?

[Brentwood]

Not quite, but by my logic a pregnant bride is bragging about the sex life by mentioning the pregnancy in the first place.

So is a pregnant woman who is married bragging about the sex life if she mentions her pregnancy? Or are people only bragging if they don't follow one specific set of rules which they themselves may consider immoral?

It makes one wonder if a baby shower is also a means of "bragging" about one's sex life.