Okay, this one REALLY bugged me...

[Amy Rose]

Had the bride and groom waited until the bride had a job and saved up some money, they probably could have had the wedding of their dreams. 

If more people did this, or if ALL people did this, a lot of problems would be solved.

I get really dismayed by all the young people champing at the bit to get married when they can't even scrape together enough money to pay for their own simple weddings.  What's wrong with waiting a few years until they're on their feet financially?  What's the big rush?

My own niece and her now dh were that way.  No amount of logic could dissuade them.  It was maddening.

Don't even get me started on couples who insist on getting married and then don't even have the financial means to live on their own and end up living with their parents.  And, of course, they start having babies....   Grrrrrrrrr.

In defense of young couples, my FH and I plan on marrying after I graduate college, but before grad school, because I'm planning to go out of state, and bring him with me. My parents and extended family do not approve of couples living together before marriage, nor does his family. I'm sure that there are many young married couples in similar situations.

And my opinion on white is that, while it may really mean expensive, the thought of white=purity is so ingrained that it's hard to shake, and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable wearing white.

OT: I think that she should have discussed it with her parents like a reasonable adult, not sent her boyfriend to strongarm them.

[Shoo]

In defense of young couples, my FH and I plan on marrying after I graduate college, but before grad school, because I'm planning to go out of state, and bring him with me. My parents and extended family do not approve of couples living together before marriage, nor does his family. I'm sure that there are many young married couples in similar situations.

Are you planning to live with either set of parents after you're married?  Will you be dependent on your parents for financial support after you're married?  If not, then you and your fiance (and other couples in similar situations) do not fall into the category I was writing about.  I wish you all the best!

[Sirius]

Oh, come on.  If someone makes the decision to wait until marriage and accomplishes that goal and actually has a sexual attraction to their fiance, I would certainly call the "victory" hard-earned!!!!  Especially these days.  It might not be everyone's decision, but I won't fault the writer for being proud of accomplishing something that yes- IS difficult.  And I certainly won't mock her for it, and I can understand why she didn't want her wedding to look "shotgun" (although there was a very simple way around that- a long enough engagement makes it plenty obvious it's not a shotgun wedding).

-----

I would be very worried if either of my kids was a virgin for their wedding -- because I assume that it denotes a problem with sexuality or intimacy --

of course it doesn't always and some people think the state of their bottoms is very very important and a moral issue -- and go on to have fabulous sex lives once married --

but it is often a red flag that the groom is not that into sexual intimacy or has some serious hangups and since it is fairly unusual in our culture today, one has to wonder just what motivates it -- I would hazard that for many of those who haven't had sex together before marriage that it wasn't 'difficult' to abstain

I have been a virgin bride and didn't make that mistake the second time -- while my first husband was enthusiastic but incompetent in bed, I have a couple of high school classmate friends who ended up finding out their virtuous husbands were g*a*y several years into their marriages -- not fun when you have a toddler or two and find out your husband is getting it on with one of your own colleagues

I was a virgin when I got married.  I was also 39 years old. I married a man with little experience - and our marriage has been wonderful.  The closer we got to our wedding, the harder it was to abstain, but because it was very important to me to stay a virgin until we got married, and he respected how important it was to me to stay a virgin until we got married, we did abstain.  Early in my single days, I stayed a virgin because I am a Christian, but as I got older "because the Bible says so" wasn't the main reason.  The main reason became, "Because I choose to do this, and any man who can't understand and respect my feelings in this matter will never cross my threshhold." 

It wasn't because I wasn't asked either; the older I got, the harder some men tried to get me to "give it up,"  as one individual so delightfully described it.  I just couldn't bring myself to give up something that meant so much to me to someone who just wanted the ego-boost of talking an over-30 virgin out of her virginity. 

[Buffy2424]

The bride in the story was probably just being offhand, lighthearted with that "right to wear white."  I think it was in parenthesis. 

But on to the off topic--!
I know a 20 year old girl who was married and divorced very quickly, supposedly because her husband married her just to get her in bed.  I know it sounds incredible, that someone would go to those lengths, but that's what she says happened.  After the divorce, she was very depressed and slept with 4 men in quick succession.

I know.  Quite a horror story, huh?

[pennylane]

I was also turned off by that whole "undisputed right to wear white at my wedding". I don't know you, I don't need to know that about you, and I don't see what trumpeting your virginity has to do with ANYTHING in this story.

Yeah, this part really irked me too.  So she wants some kind of award for marrying someone she's never had sex with.  I think she ought to have her head examined, myself.  But that's just me.

It's not just you- I was thinking that, too, LOL. 

[BethanyAnne]

I have a mild horror story of my wedding that, while it pales in comparison to some others I've read, still might provide a little perspective for impending brides.   A little (okay, a lot of) backstory:  To give you some perspective, my parents were married in the local Catholic Church.  My mother wore her sister-in-law's ill-fitting wedding dress, and the only guests were her widowed mother, the priest, the sister-in-law who owned the dress and doubled as bridesmaid, and my father's brother-in-law, who was also his best man.  The bouquet was picked from the front garden.  They had a cake from the local supermarket and one bottle of cheap champagne.  And that was it.  Total cost:  $50.   

My parents' proposition for our wedding was to hold it in the local JP court--yes, in the Judge Judy-like courtroom!--and get a cake from Randall's, a local grocery store.  The reception was to be in the courthouse lobby, right next door to the sheriff's office:  cake, Coke, no decorations, and no music.  When I called my FH, hysterical at what might look like a shotgun wedding (I was and still am very proud of my hard-earned, undisputed right to wear white at my wedding), he promptly came down to our city (a long drive, as he lived in another city), visited my parents and informed them that, if their concern was money, he could alleviate it; we could hold the wedding in Maine, in his parents' front yard, and we would have a barbeque reception--and my parents could let it be known that they didn't want to spend money on their older daughter's wedding.  My husband is a "gentle giant," normally not an aggressive man, but he knows how and won't hesitate when he feels it's appropriate.   
So we were given a budget of $2,000--a very difficult budget in the city where I lived.  I'm not one to look a gift wedding in the mouth, so FH and I quietly agreed that we would cover anything above that.  That was when I started living on coffee and adrenaline.  I looked for the least expensive options available.  The ceremony took place at a local country club, officiated by my MOH's employer (a federal bankruptcy judge), and the reception was held at a favorite Chinese buffet restaurant (which is always beautifully decorated, and the owner is a doll!).  The cake came from a lady who does beautiful cakes as a side business, and the dress from an online wholesaler.  (It fit beautifully off-the-rack, which is difficult to find for a tall girl with no figure to speak of.)   The wedding and reception went off beautifully, except for one hitch. 

My co-worker "Karen", a wonderful lady who listened patiently to my exhausted complaints and panic attacks during this process, referred me to a florist/wholesaler.  Mom and I visited her shop, and we were tremendously impressed by the arrangements we saw.  I told "Sally" that my wedding colors were royal blue, sky blue, silver, and white (which wound up not happening because apparently royal blue was not a fashionable color that year), and she knew immediately which flowers to use, and even recommended ways to work silver into the arrangements and bouquets.  She totaled up the modest number of arrangements we wanted, and it came out at less than $200.  Great!  We gave her the money and told her where and when.   

Comes now the wedding day.  I'm back in the ladies' locker room at the country club, getting ready.  My hair is behaving, my makeup is good, and my dress is frankly gorgeous.  My MOH (not my sister, who begged off because of severe social anxiety) suddenly vanished, along with Mom and my sister, and my DH's wonderful sunshine-in-law hovered around me, showing me the pictures she'd snapped of my groom coming into the club.  (Those are still some of my favorite pictures!)  When the other ladies returned, I sensed the tension in the air, and I wanted to know what was going on.  They told me it was okay, don't worry about it, they'd take care of it, and all the other usual noncommittal reassurances.   Well, they'd forgotten that I can handle disasters without turning a hair, but my overactive imagination will take over if I don't know the details.  So I started panicking, and I demanded (a bit shrilly) to know.  Turns out that the flowers, intended to arrive at 9:30 for our 11:00 wedding, had not arrived.  Mom had called at 9:45, to be told that, oops, the order slip shows they were wanted at noon.  Mom told them no, that they were needed for an 11:00 ceremony.  So here we were at 10:45, still waiting for flowers, and not knowing what was happening.   

11:00 comes and goes.  My FSIL goes out to explain to the guests what's up.  11:15 passes.  At 11:30, we decide that the flowers are not coming, and we're not going to make people wait any longer.  So we proceed.   Everything is great, even though my MOH and I have no bouquets.  But fortunately, I'd insisted on putting some lovely silk florals and silver Christmas ribbons (excellent bargain for a January wedding) on a wedding arch for the ceremony, so we had those, and everyone claims they didn't notice the lack of flowers.  Ceremony concludes, with no flowers.  Receiving line; no flowers.  Signing the license; no flowers.  Guests leave for the reception while wedding party stays for pictures; no flowers.  Bride and groom get ready to leave and realize that the best man left with the car keys; no flowers.  MOH returns, having left her street clothes, and gives the bride and groom a lift to the reception; no flowers.  It is now 1:00. 

Best man and usher return to the club from the reception to retrieve groom's truck so bride and groom don't have to hitchhike to their honeymoon; no flowers.   My mother tells me she called the country club the next day to be told that no florist appeared to ask for them.  She then called the florist to be told:  "Oh, gee, we got the wrong order."  They claimed that there just so happened to be a funeral the same day, in the same area (this Texas city is comprised of many a borough with its own name), and amazingly, the deceased had the same last name as my family!  They reviewed their records and told my mother flat out that they had no order form for our wedding!  (I guess "Sally" must have thought we said I was getting "buried," not "married."  It would account for the odd looks she kept giving us...)   

What's worse, they refused to refund the money, stating that they'd never received a dime!  That was a dumb move, because my parents had paid on their AmEx card, not with cash.  I guess they really must not have kept any records, or they wouldn't have pulled that nonsense; I often wonder how the little operation dealt with American Express falling on them like an avalanche.   This all happened a little over a year ago.  I'm still good friends with the co-worker who referred me (it wasn't her fault), and the wedding was still the best day of my life!  I'm so glad I have such wonderful family and in-laws!  (And yes, we came in under budget.)   

I apologize for sending you two separate e-mails on this, but after I looked back over the story I sent you, I realized I'd left out a couple of crucial pieces of information that otherwise make me look like a spoiled Bridezilla (which I have been assured I was emphatically not by many people):   1.  My parents offered to pay for our wedding, right from the start, because it is traditional and I had no money (being tapped out from law school and without a lawyer job due to overgraduation of students).  However, they reserved all right to make the decisions in this matter.   2.  My husband's major bone of contention was not so much that they were "holding out" on us, but because most of our guests were coming down from Maine--a welcome vacation for them because it is a warmer climate down here and they'd never been anyway.  He was not about to have his family come all this way to watch us get married in a courthouse and then stand around in a courthouse lobby eating cake and drinking Coke for an hour while the police fanned by.  He wasn't going to do that to his family--MY in-laws--and was quite serious that if this was the best my parents could do, he would take me to Maine to marry me.   I realize that fitting this information into the previous e-mail will be a bear.  If you want to use the material I sent you, please let me know so that I can edit it properly--and slice it up if you like into smaller portions.  I'm very sorry for not getting it right the first time.   Thank you for letting me vent!

Vendors0118-06

Okay, I'm sorry - but even her "clarifiation" at the end did not stop me from thinking this person is a horrible, spoiled brat.  The paragraph I highlighted with bold just struck me as horrible!  It sounds like basically, the parents offered to give them a certain type of wedding, they were not satisfied so her husband threatens them with humiliation if they don't cough up more dough.  Horrible!

And even when she sent in the second email "explaining", the story doesn't change.  What her parents were offering wasn't good enough for them so they made them change it.  I couldn't even concentrate on the vendor story after reading that 2nd paragraph.

O.k. So, yes she sounds ungrateful for not taking what her parents were offering as a gift. But does that mean that she should settle for a courthouse wedding and reception done as cheaply as possible just because it's all they wanted to provide? A wedding is a once in a life time event, IMO and to settle for something that you think is awful just because it would be rude not too sounds unreasonable. I mean it is her wedding ans it should be how she wants it within reason. Not what her parents say she should have because they are paying.

[BethanyAnne]

Yes...  that "hard-earned" bit bothered me a lot too.  Is she implying that she maintained her "right" despite being gorgeous and having a lot of offers; or is she implying that she once knifed a would-be r*pist?  Either way, I just find that a tad offensive. 

And hey, I looked stunning in my white dress, even though I'd been cohabiting with Old #1 for two years before the wedding!    (For Old #2, since we got married in winter, I wore a nice forest-green suit.)

     - saphie

What would she say about me. I ended up getting married in black.

[amaiaisabella]

It's interesting to note that wedding dresses were traditionally blue in ye olden times, for truth, honesty, and purity. Only in the last 100 years have women worn white, and there is no code that says a virgin has to wear white.

IMO, a widow/divorcee looks lovely in cream, or a pale blue suit. But that is just my tastes. I would like a cream gown when I get married, just because I am so pale I look shocked in white.

[amaiaisabella]

Aquigoth we are on the same point here and in the other thread!

[Twik]

You know, I must be one of those unfeminine people when it comes to colours.

Because someone going "No, I can't wear white, because I'm not a virgin - oh, but eggshell or cream? Pale blush? Hint o' blue? Insignificant sand? Those are great!" just doesn't make much sense to me. They're all WHITE in my mind.

[Asharah]

Well, in Saudi Arabie, they don't even wear white for weddings, even though all first-time brides are expected to be virgins. Peach or pink are the more favored colors for brides. White is used in burial garments, since they believe the white garments will be what the deceased wears when they appear before God.

[hellokaty]

I guess what gets me about it isn't that she didn't want a courthouse wedding.  Hey, I wouldn't either.  And she doesn't really seem like a bridezilla bent on a BWW to me.  It's that she was the part about letting it be known that her parents didn't want to pay for their own daughter's wedding.  Yes, it was the husband who did it, but she seems quite proud of him for doing so (this was apparently an "appropriate" situation for him to get "agressive").  If I called BF hysterical like that (which I wouldn't, but assuming I did), his first thought wouldn't be to drive down and blackmail my parents into paying more, nor would I appreciate it if he did.  He would be suggesting that we save money and pay for it ourselves.  No, she didn't have to settle, but she could have just told her parents "I'd rather do the wedding my way, and if that means paying for it myself, so be it.  If you want to contribute still, we'll be very grateful."  Instead her husband basically said give us a better budget or we'll make everybody think you're cheap and tacky.  That's where I'd say she and her husband are in the wrong, they handled how the courthouse wedding was turned down badly.

[Siduri]

The woman just sounds a bit hysterical to me.

My favorite quote:

"My MOH (not my sister, who begged off because of severe social anxiety)..."

Hmmm...

Maybe I just have a cynical view of weddings from working in the hospitality industry for so long.  I think I'm going to have an itty bitty courthouse wedding and spend my money on a killer honeymoon in Paris instead.

[AndreaX]

I had to laugh at this. If my Dh would have showed up at my parents house and basically threatened my dad with making look him cheap if he didn't pony up more money, my dad would have kicked his butt all the way back to wherever he came from. (My parents were extremelly generous and gave me a BWW, so this was not an issue at all, I'm just saying...)

I can only imagine how mortified this girl's parents were...

[Clara Bow]

It's not just her "undisputed right" to wear white, it was "hard-earned" too! 

"Hard earned" I pictured her in one of those excellent viking hats, an enormous parka and snow pants gripping a double edged sword with her back to a sheer ice cliff as randy men tried to find ways to advance on her, as an oversized sand timer counts down to her wedding day. No dear, your law degree was (hopefully) hard earned, hanging on to something you were born with, not so much.

And yes I agree CathyF, if I agree to get married and decide to wear the startlingly unflattering (for me) color of white, its my "right" as much as hers. Whether or not I meet HER criteria, I certainly meet MINE. Whatever I decide in whatever situation though, my sex life or lack of one isn't something I think needs to be shared with disinterested/ non-involved parties.

Well it is hard to keep your virginity. Mine kept running under the couch and biting anyone who tried to get it back out.