Author Topic: So are you Saved?  (Read 22953 times)

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StressedGroom

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So are you Saved?
« on: May 29, 2008, 11:10:33 AM »
I held my tongue on this one, but I really wanted to say something.

My mother recently had a stay in the hospital, and on the second day one of the volunteers stopped by with information on the customer advocate; he was wearing an ID that said pastoral care, so I knew what was coming.  He asked and I told him yes we were Christian and our pastor had been by earlier.  He then said “So you are Saved?” (his emphasis not mine)

BG: I don’t want to start a big religious argument, but I’ve never been comfortable with the terms “Saved” and “Born Again”.  I was baptized as an infant, raised in the church, have taught Sunday school and I’m an ordain Elder; I have strong faith, but I don’t think I was ever “Lost” and I have told people in the past that I was born right the first time.

Rather than get into a religious or semantic argument I said yes.  He then asked if he could pray with us, which was fine; but he referred to me as, you guessed it, “Born Again” in the prayer.  I was more annoyed and amused than offended; but again, I really didn’t want to get into a drawn out discussion with him. 

I admit that his assumptions were in part due to my answering yes to what he saw as a simple question and I saw as a complicated one.  Should I have spoken up from the start?  With the wide scope of Christianity, I would think any assumptions on belief would be dangerous.

Shoo

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 11:17:51 AM »
I think the question is presumptuous and rude, myself.  I would be tempted to answer, "Saved?  Why should I be saved?  I was never lost."  Given with the icy glare of death, of course.

But then again, I have no tolerance for people pushing a religious agenda on me, so I'm probably not the best one to offer advice.  Take it with a grain of salt.  :)

Shortcake

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 11:35:39 AM »
I agree with Shoo. It was a rude and presumptuous question.  You are right, he should not have made such an assumption. He should have just asked if you needed anything and if you wanted him to pray with you for your mother. (Of course, he should also accept "No" for an answer.)

I guess you could have answered something like, "I am secure in my salvation" , or " My faith is a private matter."  But that could lead up to more questions and/ or uncomfortable religious discussion.  :-\ 


I think you handled it fine especially considering you were put on the spot.  I probably would have done the same thing you did.

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wheeitsme

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 11:37:17 AM »

"heavens, no!  God wants to use me now!"

...and any idiom(?) phrase(?) that a faith's deity only used once, and had to explain that one time it was used...well, it tends to annoy me too ;) - and (I think) it should probably be used sparingly ;) .

As you can see - yes, I believe that this person was out of line.  Out of line in a secular environment, and out of line as a fellow member of that particular faith.  Having asked for the information once, to continue to belabor the question, and in such a way, was not in line with the particular faith that he claimed to ascribe to. 

And as much as I would have liked to use the phrase I wrote above, I would probably have said something like "I told you I was a Christian.  Your continued questioning indicates a skepticism that I find annoying and offensive."

StressedGroom

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2008, 11:44:19 AM »

"heavens, no!  God wants to use me now!"

I love that and can't wait to use it.  ;D

Shortcake

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2008, 11:45:21 AM »

As you can see - yes, I believe that this person was out of line.  Out of line in a secular environment, and out of line as a fellow member of that particular faith.  Having asked for the information once, to continue to belabor the question, and in such a way, was not in line with the particular faith that he claimed to ascribe to. 

And as much as I would have liked to use the phrase I wrote above, I would probably have said something like "I told you I was a Christian.  Your continued questioning indicates a skepticism that I find annoying and offensive."

POD especially the part I put in bold. This is a better suggestion than the one I gave. It ends the discussion.
"Carry out a random act of kindness, safe in the knowledge that one day someone might do the same for you."  Princess Diana

Twik

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 11:10:35 PM »
Really, at this point, there's not much else to say other than "Go away", because if you indicate that you are in any state other than complete agreement with this person's beliefs, they are unlikely to stop.

Proselytizing is a type of free speech, but etiquette cannot endorse it being used towards a captive audience, such as a hospital patient.
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FunkyMunky

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2008, 01:08:52 AM »

I always see being 'born again' as unnecessarily painful and cruel to the mother.





Maybe he meant something along the lines of being physically born, than spiritually born? Or he's just a little odd.

StressedGroom

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2008, 09:06:07 AM »

I always see being 'born again' as unnecessarily painful and cruel to the mother.

Maybe he thought that was why my Mother was in the hospital.

caranfin

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 09:09:13 AM »
"No, I'm spent."  ;D
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.

FoxPaws

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 09:22:54 AM »
This is worth lodging a complaint. While I would expect a representative from pastoral care to offer prayers, I would not expect to be subjected to conversion tactics while I or my loved one(s) were ill. Being "saved" and "born again" are concepts specific to certain faiths. Asking those questions is effectively promoting those belief systems.

When my father was hospitalized, the Catholic affiliated hospital's "chaplain" was a nun. She came by his room every day to offer us kind words and prayers, and never once found it necessary to discuss our personal religious beliefs outside of asking if she could pray with and for us.
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Flora Louise

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2008, 12:53:24 PM »
Sorry, OP, I don't see rudeness. He asked if you were Christian and you said yes. He asked if he could pray with you and you said yes. It does sound like your problem is with semantics. Was your mother offended?
Just because you're disappointed in me doesn't mean I did anything wrong.

thebeckster

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2008, 01:15:00 PM »
"No, I'm spent."  ;D

LOL!!! I'm going to borrow this! Thanks!

MineralDiva

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2008, 01:18:54 PM »
You answered the question.  He seemed to express "surprise" for whatever reason.  The fact that he didn't seem accept your answer as truthful and/or emphasized it during the prayer, indicates an exaggerated sense of his own entertainment value.  It would have irked me a bit also.  But I think you did fine.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 01:21:22 PM by MineralDiva »

rashea

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Re: So are you Saved?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 01:24:30 PM »
Sorry, OP, I don't see rudeness. He asked if you were Christian and you said yes. He asked if he could pray with you and you said yes. It does sound like your problem is with semantics. Was your mother offended?

Actually, according to the OP he then said "So you are Saved?” After the OP said yes he asked to pray with them.

The problem with the "are you Saved" question is that many people are Christian who do not consider themselves "saved" in the way he would have likely described it. I was raised Catholic. I would never have described myself as "Saved" or "Born-Again" because that wasn't my belief. I think a better phrasing of his question would have been to ask what denomination the OP is, because it avoids labels that many people find offensive. As in, "if you aren't a member of a religion that is Born-Again then you are going to hell". For right or wrong, I have heard it sound just like that (and asking for clarification confirmed that that is what they meant) when someone asks if I am saved.
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