update re: you pay and we'll choose the food

[wetblanket]

Snark alert!

We got another email at work asking for $15 for pub snacks.  If everyone in the group goes the total amount available for food will be $210.

I checked out the pub's menu and what the organizers are planning to order for us.  Get this - the total for the food order, plus tax and tip, should come to $131.  So what do they need $210 for?  Argh!

The only non-snarky explanation is that the organizers have grossly over-estimated the amount of food we need and are going to order two of some of the platters (instead of one, which will be plenty to go with drinks at 3pm - it's not a lunch or dinner thing).  Or they are planning a surprise bottle of champagne or similar, which is pointless for me as I do not drink alcohol.

I notice that they are NOT planning to order one of the menu I expressly requested.  Certainly the budget can stretch to cover it, so the organizers have decided to 1) ignore my request and 2) try to take my money anyway.

Well!  Forget it!

I'm going to say I may not be able to make it, so I'll just have to play it by ear and do my own thing re: food & drink when I get there.

[platys]

Again, it's possible they had to agree to meet a certain minimum amount in order to reserve the table and/or room.

[wetblanket]

I see your point, but that's not the case.  The organizers have never said anything along those lines.  Restaurants/pubs in this area would do this very rarely and only for full-on meals, not just platters of snacks.  The pub has already agreed to separate checks for drinks.

[ShadesOfGrey]

I see your point, but that's not the case.  The organizers have never said anything along those lines.  Restaurants/pubs in this area would do this very rarely and only for full-on meals, not just platters of snacks.  The pub has already agreed to separate checks for drinks.

why dont you just ask them why so much? You've seen the menu and you think they are overordering/dotn know why it's that much.  They might appreciate your concern. 

It's a simple solution really.  Either contribute and be done with it, or dont and order/pay when you get there. 

[platys]

It's a simple solution really.  Either contribute and be done with it, or dont and order/pay when you get there. 

I agree.   And, in the future, if you are that concerned with how the money is spent, you can organize  the event yourself.  However, I think you are making a huge mountain out of a molehill here, and probably will end up alienating a fair number of your coworkers in the process.

[wetblanket]

However, I think you are making a huge mountain out of a molehill here, and probably will end up alienating a fair number of your coworkers in the process.

Sigh.

Now, did I say anywhere that I had made the same remarks to the organizers as those I have made on this board?  No, because I haven't.  All I've said to them is:  I would like to have XX to eat (which they ignored) and would it be possible for the pub to do a separate bill for the food, just as they are doing for our drinks (which they also ignored).

This is an etiquette forum, no?  Am I the only one who sees an etiquette issue in taking $$ from people when 1) it is unnecessary and 2) no effort is being made to accommodate their preferences?  I think it is pretty rude.  After all, this is supposed to be my Christmas party too.  And it's not like there was a call for people to step forward as organizers and I blew it off.  Some staff appointed themselves as organizers and are now calling the shots.  Isn't THAT a great way to alienate your co-workers? 

I'm not doing anything different from what the organizers are doing.  We're both saying "No, I don't want to do it your way."  How come I'm the bad guy here?

[NOVA Lady]

No offense, but I just don't see this as a huge deal.

Do you enjoy spending time with these people and *want* to go? Do you have $15 to spare?

Perhaps its because I am in the DC metro area but 15 bucks doesn't seem like a lot of money to spend to get a variety of appetizers, plus the tax, plus the automatic tip that most places slap on big parties. in DC the food tax is 10% and most places have an 18-20% auto grat.

Also, maybe they are planning to order a lot of food because some people eat more then other people, or perhas the bar is making a special platter for them and thats the price for the group size.

Telling them you're not going and then showing up anyhow does not seem appropriate to me, I would not think that would be appreciated or taken well by others.  This happens all the time in group settings where someone eats more then someone else, that is the nature of the going out in a large group beast. Of course if you don't drink and are forced to pay for bottles of expensive wine thats one thing but if they order calamri and you hate it and dont eat it but eat all the other things there....well I guess you have to decide for yourself if its that important to you. But showing up when you tell them you wont in order to save a few bucks is plain rude.

[platys]

I agree.  Especially if, say, they are being charged by the person - you show up and order your own thing, but they'll still get dinged the extra 15 dollars.

I'm in the Chicago area, and 15 bucks for snacky pub food isn't necessarily all that out of line either. 

Asking for money up front isn't rude at all, especially in a group situation.  I posted before about the time I paid 30 dollars for an 8.95 plate of food because people stiffed.  The organizers, by virtue of being organizers are in the same situation, and properly want to avoid it.

(And splitting a drink bill is a different beast than splitting a food bill.  I know that in a pub setting, I typically pay my drinks as they arrive, but food is at the end.  Trying to figure out who pays for what in that situation is pretty hard to do, unless _no one_ shared.)

[gjcva1]

I'm not doing anything different from what the organizers are doing.  We're both saying "No, I don't want to do it your way."  How come I'm the bad guy here?

i do see your point, wetblanket.  it does seem as if they could have ordered something that you asked for.  in case i missed it, did everyone sign up for what they'd like to have, or are the "organizers" just ordering generic snacks?

do i think you're the bad guy? no.  Do I think you have to make a decision here?  yes.  you can either pay the money and go, or chose not to.  just my opinion, YMMV.

[wetblanket]

Nope, I don't like these people and yup, I do have $15 to spare.

I'm not going to show up and help myself to food I didn't pay for.  When I did I say I would?  All of us are going to have our own bills for our drinks, so IF I want to eat (and I won't want to eat much at 3pm) I will order food separately and pay for it on my own bill.

I find the responses to my posts very odd.  Based on the replies, I can only assume that it's in good form to:

1) appoint yourself as the organizer of a group party without checking in with all members of the group first
2) decide that the party MUST have food, even though the group as a whole only ever discussed drinks
3) decide what everyone is going to eat, ignoring their stated preferences
4) decide to order far too much food, thereby increasing costs for the group unnecessarily
5) demand $$ from the group
6) disregard all the other options for ordering and paying for food, even those proposed by members of the group

Am I getting the "suck it up" message because the amount is $15?  How much does it have to be for the situation to be considered poor etiquette?  $20? $30? $40? $50? 

I didn't realize it was good etiquette to let others decide what you will eat and how to spend your money.  I always thought that was just being a doormat.

PS - if the organizers are worried about getting stiffed, they can just call off the whole food thing.  This same group has gone out to lunch many times and in those cases we got separate bills and there were no dramas.  I still don't see why it should be different this time.  Unless there's some rule that it's not really a party unless you all eat off the same plate?

[NOVA Lady]

"When I did I say I would?  All of us are going to have our own bills for our drinks, so IF I want to eat (and I won't want to eat much at 3pm) I will order food separately and pay for it on my own bill."

You didn't say you would, and I didn't say that you did. However you DID say you planned to tell them you weren't going to come and show up anyhow, that a lie and lying is rude. You're going out in a group and most places do not split bills for large groups because there is an auto gratuity and it should be applied to the food bill, seperating checks would circumvent that. So, yes I think its rude to lie to your coworkers. If you don't think the party was organized well and you don't want to participate say you wont go and actually don't go.

"1) appoint yourself as the organizer of a group party without checking in with all members of the group first
2) decide that the party MUST have food, even though the group as a whole only ever discussed drinks
3) decide what everyone is going to eat, ignoring their stated preferences
4) decide to order far too much food, thereby increasing costs for the group unnecessarily
5) demand $$ from the group
6) disregard all the other options for ordering and paying for food, even those proposed by members of the group"

No one has said that to you. Are the organizers being rude? Possibly. Are you being rude about the situation? Yes it seems like it.

1. Have you approached them and told them you want to be involved in the organizing? Has anyone else stood up to do it? Are these the people that usually organize such events?

2. Has anyone but you expressed not wanting food? I cannot believe that if the majority of people involved didn't want food they would force people to get it anyhow. If you don't want to eat then don't go. When invited somewhere for food when I am not hungry and don't want to eat I just don't go.

3. Where you the only one "denied" the food you wanted? Maybe no one but you wanted to eat that. If everyone agreed on all the other stuff and wanted those things and only 1 person wanted a particular item then perhaps they were not able to accomadate that preference. If the item means so much to you that you cannot enjoy the party without it, don't go.

4. YOU think its too much food. How do you know others aren't skipping lunch and planning on making it a late lunch at the bar? I would do that. Does everyone else think its too much food?

5. Demand money? They are just collecting it earlier so there are no problems at bill time or so they might simplify things by paying when they get there. What happens if they order all that food and several people don't show up? They get stuck with the check. I think collecting the money in advance is smart.

6. How many others made suggestions?

"Am I getting the "suck it up" message because the amount is $15?  How much does it have to be for the situation to be considered poor etiquette?  $20? $30? $40? $50? "

Perhaps its becuase its a reasonable sum of money for the event?

"I didn't realize it was good etiquette to let others decide what you will eat and how to spend your money.  I always thought that was just being a doormat."

You have options. 1. Don't go or 2. go and decide what of what they have you'll eat and how much.

[gjcva1]

i didn't realize that i had replied to you in that way, telling you to suck it up.  in fact, i know i didn't do that, because that isn't the way i feel about your situation.

you asked the initial question.  we just expressed our opinions. 

[wetblanket]

I never lied to anyone.  I said I would "play it by ear".

I haven't said or done anything rude to the organizers (check all my posts on the topic about what I've actually said and done IRL).  I have posted my views on anonymous internet forum.  Is that rude?

One person did say "suck it up" on my other thread on this topic.  And it's definitely the message coming across is some of the posts.

I notice that no one has responded to this part of the situation:

If the organizers are worried about getting stiffed, they can just call off the whole food thing.  This same group has gone out to lunch many times and in those cases we got separate bills and there were no dramas.  I still don't see why it should be different this time.

The organizers CHOSE to be organizers and they CHOSE to do it this way.  Their way pre-empts the many other options that others might have chosen.  That's inconsiderate, and therefore poor etiquette.  Especially since it's Other People's Money (and a questionable amount too) that they're spending.

And I gotta say, if some of the others are planning to chow down at the party and that's why there is so much food, I really don't think the rest of us should be expected to subsidize that.

[wetblanket]

Interesting post from another thread:

The point is, it is rude to make it mandatory to chip in for a gift. I don't care who does it or the size of the company or what their traditions are, it's just rude all the way. Have it be a choice, not an order. This is no different than requiring people to buy gifts for a wedding or birthday party.

Isn't it then equally rude to make it mandatory to chip in for unnecessary food that you may not want to eat?  Especially when other options are available?

[Slartibartfast]

I read the OP's intention as to tell the organizers she "wasn't sure she could make it" (NOT the same as saying she wouldn't come!), as a reason she isn't paying ahead of time.  Then when she DOES come, she can pay for her own food.  It might be a minor inconvenience to the wait staff to handle her bill separately, but I can't imagine a restaurant/pub actually not being able to do this.  She just needs to be proactive in making sure she covers her bill (so it doesn't fall on the wait staff to keep track of it), and the minor inconvenience to the wait staff will be a lot less than the inconvenience to the OP of having to pay twice what she would have spent on food she didn't want.

It shouldn't matter whether it's $15 or $50 - if the OP wants to avoid the situation, she should have the option of doing so.  Of course, sometimes it's worth the $15 to avoid animosity with co-workers in a new job - but I don't see this causing any major rifts here.