Author Topic: Reading/Book Pet Peeves  (Read 230864 times)

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AfleetAlex

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2250 on: September 29, 2014, 03:32:02 PM »
All true but we would have been a LOT more interested in Shakespeare!  ;D


On another note, I've always said I find it hard to read Shakespeare unless I've seen it performed first. Since (and correct me if I'm wrong) it was all meant to be performed, a lot of (even unbawdy!) stuff passes by me if I'm reading but less when it's being performed.
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magicdomino

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2251 on: September 29, 2014, 03:59:12 PM »
All true but we would have been a LOT more interested in Shakespeare!  ;D


On another note, I've always said I find it hard to read Shakespeare unless I've seen it performed first. Since (and correct me if I'm wrong) it was all meant to be performed, a lot of (even unbawdy!) stuff passes by me if I'm reading but less when it's being performed.

I get distracted by the spelling.  Shakespeare's English is much easier for me to puzzle out when it is spoken.

daen

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2252 on: September 29, 2014, 04:06:31 PM »
All true but we would have been a LOT more interested in Shakespeare!  ;D


On another note, I've always said I find it hard to read Shakespeare unless I've seen it performed first. Since (and correct me if I'm wrong) it was all meant to be performed, a lot of (even unbawdy!) stuff passes by me if I'm reading but less when it's being performed.

I get distracted by the spelling.  Shakespeare's English is much easier for me to puzzle out when it is spoken.

Let me refer you to an Open University presentation on Shakespeare's original pronunciation. I find it quite a fascinating thing - that the classic English accent (Royal Theater?) is actually incorrect for the period, and that just changing the pronunciation can change the pace of the production significantly.

There's more information here.

eta the bit that reminded me of original pronunciation in the first place - apparently there are some rather rude puns that only come through if one is using original pronunciation - the specific example was that of the identical pronunciation of the words "hour" and five-letter-word-for-lady-of-the-evening.
(The presenters refer to this pronunciation/accent as OP, but that gets confusing in this context.)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 04:15:02 PM by daen »

artk2002

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2253 on: September 29, 2014, 04:53:09 PM »
All true but we would have been a LOT more interested in Shakespeare!  ;D


On another note, I've always said I find it hard to read Shakespeare unless I've seen it performed first. Since (and correct me if I'm wrong) it was all meant to be performed, a lot of (even unbawdy!) stuff passes by me if I'm reading but less when it's being performed.

I get distracted by the spelling.  Shakespeare's English is much easier for me to puzzle out when it is spoken.

Let me refer you to an Open University presentation on Shakespeare's original pronunciation. I find it quite a fascinating thing - that the classic English accent (Royal Theater?) is actually incorrect for the period, and that just changing the pronunciation can change the pace of the production significantly.

There's more information here.

eta the bit that reminded me of original pronunciation in the first place - apparently there are some rather rude puns that only come through if one is using original pronunciation - the specific example was that of the identical pronunciation of the words "hour" and five-letter-word-for-lady-of-the-evening.
(The presenters refer to this pronunciation/accent as OP, but that gets confusing in this context.)

I love that presentation. Way back when dinosaurs wore doublets, I toured the UK with a Renaissance re-enactment group. In part, we used Robert Newton's accent (see "Treasure Island") because there's evidence that it has preserved OP better than most areas. It's not too far off from the OP presented in the documentary.
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Slartibartfast

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2254 on: September 29, 2014, 05:35:21 PM »
Ever been baffled by the bard? Vexed by his verse? Or perplexed by his puns? London's Globe theatre thinks it has the answer: perform Shakespeare's plays in Shakespeare's dialect.

In August the theatre will stage an "original production" of Troilus and Cressida, with the actors performing the lines as closely as possibly to the play's first performance - in 1604.

By opening night, they will have rehearsed using phonetic scripts for two months and, hopefully, will render the play just as its author intended. They say their accents are somewhere between Australian, Cornish, Irish and Scottish, with a dash of Yorkshire - yet bizarrely, completely intelligible if you happen to come from North Carolina.
  (bolding mine)

Elfmama

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2255 on: September 29, 2014, 05:46:31 PM »
My only complaint about learning Shakespeare in school was nobody ever pointed out the bawdy stuff.  ;D
Oh, they couldn't possibly do that.  Point out that there is bawdy stuff to teens and they might start thinking about S-E-X.  Because teens never think  about S-E-X unless prompted by a book/tv show/naughty video.  Raging hormones have nothing to do with it.   ::)

However, there is an urban legend about a college class who were studying Chaucer.  The instructor, at the first class, said they would be working with the Canturbury Tales, except for the Miller's Tale, because it was too bawdy.  Second class was opened with "We will now discuss the Miller's Tale."
 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 05:52:12 PM by Elfmama »
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daen

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2256 on: September 29, 2014, 07:33:10 PM »
My only complaint about learning Shakespeare in school was nobody ever pointed out the bawdy stuff.  ;D
Oh, they couldn't possibly do that.  Point out that there is bawdy stuff to teens and they might start thinking about S-E-X.  Because teens never think  about S-E-X unless prompted by a book/tv show/naughty video.  Raging hormones have nothing to do with it.   ::)

However, there is an urban legend about a college class who were studying Chaucer.  The instructor, at the first class, said they would be working with the Canturbury Tales, except for the Miller's Tale, because it was too bawdy.  Second class was opened with "We will now discuss the Miller's Tale."

I've heard that story, except it was the Nun Priest's Tale.

poundcake

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2257 on: September 30, 2014, 06:06:02 AM »
My only complaint about learning Shakespeare in school was nobody ever pointed out the bawdy stuff.  ;D
Oh, they couldn't possibly do that.  Point out that there is bawdy stuff to teens and they might start thinking about S-E-X.  Because teens never think  about S-E-X unless prompted by a book/tv show/naughty video.  Raging hormones have nothing to do with it.   ::)

However, there is an urban legend about a college class who were studying Chaucer.  The instructor, at the first class, said they would be working with the Canturbury Tales, except for the Miller's Tale, because it was too bawdy.  Second class was opened with "We will now discuss the Miller's Tale."

I've heard that story, except it was the Nun Priest's Tale.

Like Shakespeare, seeing a live performance of the Canterbury Tales also helps one realize that, wow, you miss a LOT by just reading the words on the page!

I find subtle ways to point out the dirty bits to my younger students. It's always encouraging when a couple students voluntarily go look stuff up on their own, even if it's just to giggle about confirmation that, yes, "Falstaff" really IS a character pretty much embodying "dickjoke."

Winterlight

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2258 on: September 30, 2014, 09:07:52 AM »
The cover describes the author as "the Rembrandt of romance novels". I'm not sure what that means.

Did the author write that description too?  ;)

I just googled the phrase and it was apparently written by a newspaper reviewing the author. But still, eyerolly.
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cabbageweevil

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2259 on: September 30, 2014, 05:24:18 PM »
Ever been baffled by the bard? Vexed by his verse? Or perplexed by his puns? London's Globe theatre thinks it has the answer: perform Shakespeare's plays in Shakespeare's dialect.

In August the theatre will stage an "original production" of Troilus and Cressida, with the actors performing the lines as closely as possibly to the play's first performance - in 1604.

By opening night, they will have rehearsed using phonetic scripts for two months and, hopefully, will render the play just as its author intended. They say their accents are somewhere between Australian, Cornish, Irish and Scottish, with a dash of Yorkshire - yet bizarrely, completely intelligible if you happen to come from North Carolina.
  (bolding mine)

To adapt the old music-hall song:

Their accents Aussie, Cornish, Scottish, Irish, bit of Yorkshire too:
That's how Shakey sounded, if you think this theory true;
Sydney, Bodmin, Aberdeen, and various places in between --
But child's play if you're from North Carolina.

Twik

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Re: Reading/Book Pet Peeves
« Reply #2260 on: Yesterday at 09:55:50 AM »
I'm not surprised they mention North Carolina - in "The Story of English" they mention a dialect there that is almost unchanged from the first settlers, very close to Shakespeare's time.
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