Author Topic: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)  (Read 679708 times)

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drzim

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This might be an urban legend, but I always heard when I was in college that the published catalog that was in effect when you enrolled was a contract between you and the university as far as degree requirements; nothing could be added or changed once you had declared your major.

This is definitely true at the college where I teach.  In fact, when you officially declare your major/program of study, on the form there is a line that says "catalog year".  You are held to the degree requirements in that specific catalog.

greencat

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In large part, most colleges do stick to your original catalog year when determining when you will graduate.

However, I know a fair number of people (mostly in one department) who had to change their catalog year in order to graduate, because their list of degree requirements included at least one class that was no longer offered, as there were no longer any professors in the department qualified to teach it!

As far as patron requests:
No, the thing you gave us to process after close of business yesterday, during one of the four busiest weeks of the year, is not done yet.  You know as well as I do that our turnaround at this time is at least 2 business days.

My current set of patrons tend to be a lot smarter and more agreeable than they were in my old position :)

Impossible requests from my old position:

Former customers want copies of their records a lot.  Former customers need to either access our online record system using their credentials -OR- physically visit the records department.  This is due to legal restrictions on the release of that information.  Customers are responsible for keeping the records department informed about their current contact information if they want to maintain their electronic access to their records (or keep their password updated.)
1) My department could not reset those passwords through any mechanism different than the one that the customers could access.
2) My department could not make alterations to the former customer contact information.
3) My department could tell you about the form the records department required in order to make those changes.  We did not process that form.  The form had the answer to every single question I was ever asked about how to fill it out printed on the form.

I could not change the requirements of the form.  I could not make the records department process it faster.  I could not just change the information for them.  I could transfer them to the records department; I could not make the records department pick up the phone any faster.

LETitbe

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This might be an urban legend, but I always heard when I was in college that the published catalog that was in effect when you enrolled was a contract between you and the university as far as degree requirements; nothing could be added or changed once you had declared your major.

This is definitely true at the college where I teach.  In fact, when you officially declare your major/program of study, on the form there is a line that says "catalog year".  You are held to the degree requirements in that specific catalog.

Depends on the school. It tends to be true in practice, but not necessarily a rule that schools have to follow. You may have to put up a major stink to be "grandfathered in", and, even then, they may try to work with you to sub things (based on my own experience at one university, and my brother's at another). It seems to depend on who you talk to, and possibly how much enrollment the program has.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 11:52:41 PM by LETitbe »

Ceallach

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This might be an urban legend, but I always heard when I was in college that the published catalog that was in effect when you enrolled was a contract between you and the university as far as degree requirements; nothing could be added or changed once you had declared your major.

This is definitely true at the college where I teach.  In fact, when you officially declare your major/program of study, on the form there is a line that says "catalog year".  You are held to the degree requirements in that specific catalog.

Depends on the school. It tends to be true in practice, but not necessarily a rule that schools have to follow. You may have to put up a major stink to be "grandfathered in", and, even then, they may try to work with you to sub things (based on my own experience at one university, and my brother's at another). It seems to depend on who you talk to, and possibly how much enrollment the program has.

Most I've known have had a cut-off year for completion too, e.g. you must graduate by 2010 under the old requirements, if you are studying past then you must meet the new requirements.   This ensured they weren't stuck trying to offer random courses/units long after they'd become obsolete or been changed, so was better for university planning.    So they have a changeover period to minimise disruption to existing students, but that didn't mean somebody could take a couple of years off and then decide to come back and finish and expect the old requirements to still apply.   Always seemed quite fair to me!    So those enrolling prior to 2008 and graduating prior to 2010 had old requirements, those enrolling after 2008 or studying beyond 2010 had new requirements.   
"Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something"


LETitbe

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Most I've known have had a cut-off year for completion too, e.g. you must graduate by 2010 under the old requirements, if you are studying past then you must meet the new requirements.   This ensured they weren't stuck trying to offer random courses/units long after they'd become obsolete or been changed, so was better for university planning.    So they have a changeover period to minimise disruption to existing students, but that didn't mean somebody could take a couple of years off and then decide to come back and finish and expect the old requirements to still apply.   Always seemed quite fair to me!    So those enrolling prior to 2008 and graduating prior to 2010 had old requirements, those enrolling after 2008 or studying beyond 2010 had new requirements

This is what my university did. I think it seems fair, too. They changed the program after I enrolled, but I was "grandfathered in". Cool with me!
My brother's university (reluctantly) offered "equivalent" courses/work, which actually didn't teach him what he needed to know. He was a year away from graduating, so it wasn't really worth arguing, but he's unprepared for his field. At least he has the degree, but it feels a bit sketchy for all the money he spent.
I don't think there's actually any regulation on this kind of thing, AFAIK.

Browyn

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The course catalog is very important for a lot of things.  They told us to keep ours (and being very OCD I did) it was great each year I could see which courses I needed, prerequisits, etc.  However many SS in my dorm did not keep theirs and every year many girls would come knocking at my door asking to borrow it to look things up.  I made them use it in my room so it wouldn't disappear.

Several years later when applying to grad school I was able to use it to show the school I was applying to that the statistics course I had taken did meet their requirements based on its description so the credits were accepted.

Ceallach

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The course catalog is very important for a lot of things.  They told us to keep ours (and being very OCD I did) it was great each year I could see which courses I needed, prerequisits, etc.  However many SS in my dorm did not keep theirs and every year many girls would come knocking at my door asking to borrow it to look things up.  I made them use it in my room so it wouldn't disappear.

Several years later when applying to grad school I was able to use it to show the school I was applying to that the statistics course I had taken did meet their requirements based on its description so the credits were accepted.

Which raises the interesting question of how that would be handled these days - my first university back in 2001 was still doing hardcopy syllabus etc, but since then everywhere I've been is all online even when the teaching method is face to face.   In theory if a course was discontinued it would be hard for me to find information should I need it for a credit at another institution.   They certainly wouldnt want a copy of the textbook or anything like that! 
"Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something"


ladyknight1

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I have saved a copy of my particular degree program catalog each time anything has changed and I run a degree audit every semester.

Browyn

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The course catalog is very important for a lot of things.  They told us to keep ours (and being very OCD I did) it was great each year I could see which courses I needed, prerequisits, etc.  However many SS in my dorm did not keep theirs and every year many girls would come knocking at my door asking to borrow it to look things up.  I made them use it in my room so it wouldn't disappear.

Several years later when applying to grad school I was able to use it to show the school I was applying to that the statistics course I had taken did meet their requirements based on its description so the credits were accepted.

Which raises the interesting question of how that would be handled these days - my first university back in 2001 was still doing hardcopy syllabus etc, but since then everywhere I've been is all online even when the teaching method is face to face.   In theory if a course was discontinued it would be hard for me to find information should I need it for a credit at another institution.   They certainly wouldnt want a copy of the textbook or anything like that!

True, but I'm an old broad, I started college in the fall of 1982.

Yarnspinner

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Please show me how to send an email from my phone even though I do not have an email account on my phone or anywhere else for that matter.

Yeah, good luck with that!

Lady Snowdon

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I talked to a woman last week who was very upset with us that her account wasn't fully paid off.  Had she sent in the full payment?  Well, no.  Was she on a payment plan and this was the last payment?  Well, no.  Did she realize that there was still an outstanding balance?  Well, yes.  "But I wrote paid in full on the last check I sent you, so you have to wipe out the rest of the balance!". I'm sorry? "Cashing the check means you accept my payment on this, so it's a legal contract.  That means since I wrote "paid in full" on the check, and you cashed it, you're legally obligated to abide by that!".   

Yeah, no, sorry.  Not wiping out a four digit balance on your account because you wrote some words on your check. 

PastryGoddess

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I talked to a woman last week who was very upset with us that her account wasn't fully paid off.  Had she sent in the full payment?  Well, no.  Was she on a payment plan and this was the last payment?  Well, no.  Did she realize that there was still an outstanding balance?  Well, yes.  "But I wrote paid in full on the last check I sent you, so you have to wipe out the rest of the balance!". I'm sorry? "Cashing the check means you accept my payment on this, so it's a legal contract.  That means since I wrote "paid in full" on the check, and you cashed it, you're legally obligated to abide by that!".   

Yeah, no, sorry.  Not wiping out a four digit balance on your account because you wrote some words on your check. 

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Library Dragon

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I talked to a woman last week who was very upset with us that her account wasn't fully paid off.  Had she sent in the full payment?  Well, no.  Was she on a payment plan and this was the last payment?  Well, no.  Did she realize that there was still an outstanding balance?  Well, yes.  "But I wrote paid in full on the last check I sent you, so you have to wipe out the rest of the balance!". I'm sorry? "Cashing the check means you accept my payment on this, so it's a legal contract.  That means since I wrote "paid in full" on the check, and you cashed it, you're legally obligated to abide by that!".   

Yeah, no, sorry.  Not wiping out a four digit balance on your account because you wrote some words on your check.

Someone watched too many Night Court episodes (or other legal comedy).

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Elfmama

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I talked to a woman last week who was very upset with us that her account wasn't fully paid off.  Had she sent in the full payment?  Well, no.  Was she on a payment plan and this was the last payment?  Well, no.  Did she realize that there was still an outstanding balance?  Well, yes.  "But I wrote paid in full on the last check I sent you, so you have to wipe out the rest of the balance!". I'm sorry? "Cashing the check means you accept my payment on this, so it's a legal contract.  That means since I wrote "paid in full" on the check, and you cashed it, you're legally obligated to abide by that!".   

Yeah, no, sorry.  Not wiping out a four digit balance on your account because you wrote some words on your check.

Someone watched too many Night Court episodes (or other legal comedy).
That's a very old and widespread Urban Legend. I remember DH telling me this as a true fact right after we got married,  40 years ago. 

Snopes says that the status is "mixed"  meaning that under some circumstances it might be true, but not often, and certainly not a way to write off thousands by paying out only a few dollars.  http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/paidfull.asp
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LETitbe

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I talked to a woman last week who was very upset with us that her account wasn't fully paid off.  Had she sent in the full payment?  Well, no.  Was she on a payment plan and this was the last payment?  Well, no.  Did she realize that there was still an outstanding balance?  Well, yes.  "But I wrote paid in full on the last check I sent you, so you have to wipe out the rest of the balance!". I'm sorry? "Cashing the check means you accept my payment on this, so it's a legal contract.  That means since I wrote "paid in full" on the check, and you cashed it, you're legally obligated to abide by that!".   


I have actually heard that you should write something to that effect on your check if you've agreed to a settlement with the creditor, just as an extra safeguard if they try to call you again on the same debt (they should have written records or recordings of the arrangement, but just as an extra note), but I've never heard of anyone thinking they can just make the decision on the settlement themselves. That's pretty silly.
Yeah, no, sorry.  Not wiping out a four digit balance on your account because you wrote some words on your check.