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Author Topic: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)  (Read 1415911 times)

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perpetua

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3075 on: November 17, 2013, 01:45:31 PM »
The trouble is, it's very difficult to know exactly what you want to do and how at 17.
And no one says you have to go to college at 17.

Almost everyone who goes to uni here does it straight out of school, and the choice is made at 17.  Going as a mature student is uncommon.
And to quote Dr. Phil, how's that working for you? Seriously, if going at 17 doesn't work, I'm surprised that more people don't go as non-traditionals. It's very much the trend in American academia. The university where I teach is primarily traditionals, but in nearly every class I have non-trads. Every professor loves the non-trads, they have a depth of life experience that's not replaceable by book learning. I tell our undergrads that taking a year or two to practice at the bachelor's level before going to grad school can be an excellent idea. And in my doctoral program, we were required to practice at the masters' level for at least 2 years before coming back. Most faculties will not hire someone who hadn't had 2 years post-masters.

The bolded sounds really snarky.  I'm not in charge of the UK's education system, nor did I say it "didn't work".  For many people it does, many others feel that dropping particular subjects and narrowing their choices (which begins at age 13 or 14 here) was too early for them.

I didn't understand the rest of your post, about "practice" or what "grad school" is.

In the UK, a common route to university is to finish GCSEs at 16, finish A-Levels at 18 and go to university for three years to do a BSc or a BA (after which, you are a graduate).  After that you can choose to do a one-year MA or MSc, or a three-year PhD.

University is so expensive that many people who enter work and get settled after school see going to university full-time as a step backwards in terms of finances and lifestyle.  Some companies sponsor employees to gain degrees part-time (often one day a week) but that takes many years.

Yeah, I thought that was snarky too, and my immediate thought was "Not many people can afford to go back to university as a mature student". It costs money to pay the tuition fees and then you're not working because you're at uni full time, so how do you pay your bills?

In the UK many mature students obtain degrees using the Open University and study in their spare time at home, attending groups and lectures in the evenings at local universities. It's very popular. And it works very well.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3076 on: November 17, 2013, 01:52:06 PM »
Yes, the OU is excellent.  It's a real shame they had to put their prices up a couple of years ago.

Jocelyn

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3077 on: November 17, 2013, 03:15:46 PM »

The bolded sounds really snarky.  I'm not in charge of the UK's education system, nor did I say it "didn't work".  For many people it does, many others feel that dropping particular subjects and narrowing their choices (which begins at age 13 or 14 here) was too early for them.

I didn't understand the rest of your post, about "practice" or what "grad school" is.

In the UK, a common route to university is to finish GCSEs at 16, finish A-Levels at 18 and go to university for three years to do a BSc or a BA (after which, you are a graduate).  After that you can choose to do a one-year MA or MSc, or a three-year PhD.

University is so expensive that many people who enter work and get settled after school see going to university full-time as a step backwards in terms of finances and lifestyle.  Some companies sponsor employees to gain degrees part-time (often one day a week) but that takes many years.
I can see how it could sound snarky, to those not familiar with the TV show- I didn't mean it to be snarky, just in the sense that it's used on the show: that if a solution isn't working, it's better to think of another solution.
'Grad school' is any academic program beyond the bachelor's degree. 'Practice' is what we generally use for engaging in a profession.

Jocelyn

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3078 on: November 17, 2013, 03:26:10 PM »


Yeah, I thought that was snarky too, and my immediate thought was "Not many people can afford to go back to university as a mature student". It costs money to pay the tuition fees and then you're not working because you're at uni full time, so how do you pay your bills?

In the UK many mature students obtain degrees using the Open University and study in their spare time at home, attending groups and lectures in the evenings at local universities. It's very popular. And it works very well.
Sorry; I didn't mean it in a snarky way. Apparently it's another cultural reference that doesn't translate to another country well.
And I am very surprised to hear that the UK is so very different from the US in academic structure. Here, very very few traditional students are being totally supported by their parents. As a matter of fact, 12 hours is now considered full time, because of the number of traditional students who are self-supporting and who cannot take the 15 hours or more that are required to graduate in 4 years. Most of my traditional students are working 30 or more hours a week. Some of my nontrads are not working at all, because they have a spouse who can help with support. Both trads and nontrads are eligible for financial aid. And for that matter, students don't have to attend full-time. Many students are taking half-time classes and working full-time. The only financial incentive for going to uni right after high school is if you've won a scholarship from the state...but they only go to the best students, so there's very little chance that someone who has absolutely no idea of what they want to do will get one. Of course there are student loans as well, which make it fairly easy to pay your way through college, but which leave many graduates with a big debt load. 
But yes, I'm surprised that the UK doesn't have similar government programs or business incentives for people to pursue degrees.

Katana_Geldar

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3079 on: November 17, 2013, 03:32:52 PM »
They did, but they were cut. I remember seeing the protests on the news.

siamesecat2965

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3080 on: November 17, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »
The trouble is, it's very difficult to know exactly what you want to do and how at 17.
And no one says you have to go to college at 17.
 

I agree. I'm 47, went the four year route right out of HS, without a blessed clue what I wanted to do. didn't take it all that seriously, but in my defense, I often wonder if I have some issues since I am not stupid, but have trouble focusing, applying myself etc. who knows? I kind of wish that maybe I had done community college, then transferred, working too.

but back in the day, and the fact i went to a very competitive HS, that was ONLY the route, or the perception was, if you couldn't get in anywhere else, and were a failure. never mind plenty of kids went taht route since they couldn't afford a 4 year school. But then, anyone who did that was seen as a screwup.

However, in my 30's i went back to school, got my MS and graduated with honors. and enjoyed school! which I never did before.


RingTailedLemur

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3081 on: November 17, 2013, 03:57:26 PM »
Student loans are available but are pitiful.  AFAIK they are still means-tested (ie, based on parents' income - so parents are expected to support).  In fact, I heard that the Govt has been considering removing all benefits (welfare) for anyone under 25, on the basis that people under that age will be supported by their parents instead.

When I was at uni full-time, I did 26 hours a week in lectures and lab time alone - plus hours of homework, revision, travelling too and from etc.  I did wonder how American students managed to earn a living at the same time as studying full-time, I had assumed they did similar hours.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 04:00:11 PM by RingTailedLemur »

Winterlight

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3082 on: November 17, 2013, 04:52:48 PM »
I think we're getting off-topic.

I had a call the other day from someone who informed me she wanted information on space.

Anything in particular?

No, just space. /eyeroll

I finally managed to narrow her down to an actual topic, but there was definitely some blinking going on for a minute.
If wisdomís ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

Katana_Geldar

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3083 on: November 17, 2013, 04:56:46 PM »
You could tell them: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

ladyknight1

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3084 on: November 17, 2013, 05:44:03 PM »
Space: The Final Frontier

I could go on.  :D
ďAll that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost."
-J.R.R Tolkien

Slartibartfast

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Jocelyn

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3086 on: November 17, 2013, 06:24:50 PM »
When I was at uni full-time, I did 26 hours a week in lectures and lab time alone - plus hours of homework, revision, travelling too and from etc.  I did wonder how American students managed to earn a living at the same time as studying full-time, I had assumed they did similar hours.
What we call 'hours' are perhaps more properly called 'credits'. You must have 120 hours (or a few more) to graduate with a bachelor's degree. A 3 credit hour class typically means you attend lecture 3 hours a week. Back in my day, you were expected to study the same number of hours studying, although now more students claim that they are studying much less than that. So yes, the average US student is in class much less than 26 hours a week. 12 hours in class, 12 hours of studying, and 30 hours a week on a job still makes a busy week.

Dindrane

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3087 on: November 17, 2013, 06:27:44 PM »
Can we move the discussion about higher education to a different thread? It's moved rather far away from the topic of this one.


Twik

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Re: Not Going To Happen 'Cause I'm Not Harry Potter (Impossible Patron Requests)
« Reply #3088 on: November 17, 2013, 07:45:27 PM »
You could tell them: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Applauds.
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Pen^2

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