Home Schooling and how to say it's not a good idea?

[baconsmom]

But I'd much rather have a child who didn't go to a prom, but did go to Yale, instead of a kid who got to be homecoming queen and can't write a simple essay because no one bothered to teach her.

I find this complete split between "home school" and "public school" quite strange. It was very rare to home school when I was at school but quite normal to have extra lessons and supported home working. Young people go to school and go through the school system taking the school exams but have tutoring on the subjects they need provided through their parents.

My husband, my friends and I all value our educations far more highly than any opportunities for dancing or cheering we had in public schools, which leads me to believe those opportunities really won't be missed.

Is it possible that this is because you had all those chances and therefore made a choice? That's a bit different from not having the chance.

In the first instance, I was being extreme because the person I was answering thought homeschooled kids don't get to go to the prom, which isn't true in my state, but I don't think it's really that important. Most of us didn't, actually, have a choice - if someone didn't ask us to the school dances, or turned down our invitations to go, we didn't go. So on top of not going to the dance, we had a heaping helping of rejection to think about while we were not dancing.

FWIW, I only plan on homeschooling history and English through high school. I'm only good for math and science through about sixth grade, so after that, she goes into school for a few hours a day and can get that socialisation that will teach her how cruel people can be. Maybe I'm biased because no one I know had a good school experience, but in my opinion, exposing a bright, happy child to the tortures of group schooling, public or private, just to have her "socialised" isn't something that should be top on my list of priorities for my child.

[mrsbrandt]

Baconsmom I'm so sorry you and many people you know had such an awful experience out in the public school system.  It really saddens me to think that so many people had such an awful time in high school.  Those 4 years for me really were some of the best years of my life.  I was fairly shy throughout elementary and middle school, but after sophomore year in high school I really turned into a social butterfly.  I've always experienced my fair share of teasing throughout school (there were even days when I did nothing but cry about it), but I've encountered similar instances of unkindness in the working world and in college and just in life in general.  I think having to deal with it throughout my school career has it made it easier for me to deal with it in my everyday life.  I think if I was homeschooled I could completely shut those kinds of people out of my life, in real life situations that isn't always possible.  Sometimes you have to learn to deal with people you really don't like or agree with.

I agree there are many merits to home schooling for many children, but there are benefits to the public school system too.  I really hope that your child doesn't have a horrible public school experience and is able to take advantage of some of the great things about public school.

[HogwartsAlum]

I knew one who had never met anyone who wasn't a devout Christian. She thought I was shocking.

This is a teeny bit OT, but are parts of the U.S. really so non-integrated? I mean, children in S.A. who are homeschooled (even in small towns) are going to meet non-Christians and people of other colours and cultures just by walking out the door! In one shopping trip (and I'm talking about a trip to my local supermarket up the road) I will likely come across Muslims (wearing scarves, covering their faces or not), Hindus, black people from about 7 cultures, Coloured people and a large variety of white people (Portuguese, German, Lebanese, English, Afrikaans, etc.)

It's quite scary if someone can go through a huge portion of their life and never meet someone different from them.

It sure is scary.  In the US Midwest, especially in rural areas, it is very culturally isolated and can be very much behind large cities or on the coasts.  I was born in a large midwestern city, but moved to a tiny town at seven, in the early '70s.  There was exactly one person of color in a town of 4000 (a family's adopted son) and that was IT until many years later.  It freaked me out, because my kindergarten and first grade classrooms were a veritable rainbow, and then all of a sudden here we were.  When I moved to coastal California in the early '90s, I was MUCH more comfortable!

Some of the people I grew up with had never seen the ocean, either. 

[Eleanorq]

It sure is scary.  In the US Midwest, especially in rural areas, it is very culturally isolated and can be very much behind large cities or on the coasts.  I was born in a large midwestern city, but moved to a tiny town at seven, in the early '70s.  There was exactly one person of color in a town of 4000 (a family's adopted son) and that was IT until many years later.  It freaked me out, because my kindergarten and first grade classrooms were a veritable rainbow, and then all of a sudden here we were.  When I moved to coastal California in the early '90s, I was MUCH more comfortable!

Some of the people I grew up with had never seen the ocean, either. 

It goes both ways.  I went to college with a girl from the east coast who had never met a *******, a conservative, or someone who genuinely enjoyed country music until college.  And she had never seen a corn field. 

I know what you mean abouth those small towns, though.  They can be downright creepy.

[Betsy]

Here are my two cents. <<Warning long post ahead>>
I was found to be "gifted" early in my education years. (I was more or less reading simple books in kindergarten). Looking back on my education there are somethings that I would have regretted not experiencing but there are others that I could have done without.

Elementary and Middle school were tolerable. The kids teased me and I came home crying at least once a week but it was made up for by great teachers who understood that I was the only student able to finish class work in about 1/2 the time allotted for it so either had extra "work" for me to play with or let me go to the library to pick out a new book to read if I didn't already have one. My parents were both super involved in my education. Anymore I don't remember what I learned at school and what I learned at home. For instance I heard the big kids talking on the bus about multiplication when I was in 2nd grade and went home and asked mom about it. She went out that night and bought me flashcards and multiplication games. It wasn't hard and I had a lot of fun. Since my mom was already a SAHM and she was already super involved in our schooling I think she would have done fine homeschooling me.

High school was only fun because I got to participate in choir and french club. Classes were tedious until I hit the AP classes, because I had already mastered the concepts years earlier. I didn't enjoy high school dances even though I went to all of them. Looking back on those dances I cringe because I wore the stupidest looking dresses (in an effort to fit in I wanted stylish dresses and DID NOT have a body for them). I hated sports because the jocks got out of doing real class work and just got handed off year in and year out b/c they were jocks.

Outside of school I was active in my parents church, volunteered at the local hospital, worked at the library, and took pre-pre-med courses at a not so local hospital (Medical Explorers was for high schoolers who wanted to go into premed in college). I learned how to socialize more outside of school than in school. To me school was for learning and outside activities were for socializing.

Personally I would have rather have been homeschooled, but that's only looking back and knowing what I do now about my personality and learning style. If parents can identify those personality traits and learning styles early and provide an interesting cooperative learning environment in the home then more power to them. To me homeschooling definitely should end before high school. I feel that there are certain rites of passage that high schoolers do that they may miss out on if homeschooled.

If I have the time to devote to it I would likely home-school my future children but only if I have the time to devote to it.

[Ulla dances in a silly way]

I knew one who had never met anyone who wasn't a devout Christian. She thought I was shocking.

This is a teeny bit OT, but are parts of the U.S. really so non-integrated? I mean, children in S.A. who are homeschooled (even in small towns) are going to meet non-Christians and people of other colours and cultures just by walking out the door! In one shopping trip (and I'm talking about a trip to my local supermarket up the road) I will likely come across Muslims (wearing scarves, covering their faces or not), Hindus, black people from about 7 cultures, Coloured people and a large variety of white people (Portuguese, German, Lebanese, English, Afrikaans, etc.)

It's quite scary if someone can go through a huge portion of their life and never meet someone different from them.

Let me clarify that: She had probably encountered people who were not exactly like her but had never actually had any contact beyond whatever social contact you get from a stranger in a grocery store. My hometown isn't that isolated. It's racially diverse but lacking in religious diversity. It's possible, if you stay in a church crowd, not to interact with any non-Christians. I wasn't really even thinking about race as much as beliefs.

-Ulla

[Sharnita]

In Michigan, and I'm sure most every state in America, there are extremes. There are tiny towns where the population might be a few hundred. There are also big cities. My students are all African American and some days myself and a couple other faculty members are the only white people they interact with.

I brought in a sugar beet and the held it up to their ear and shook it, expecting to hear sugar shaking back and forth. They asked if we cut it open, would the sugar pour onto the floor. At work and in college courses, I figured out how many "city folk" who are educated adults remain pretty clueless about basic agricultural concepts. Many of them remained clueless about the process of how eggs and beef are pruduced for commercial sale. Yet many of them felt they were worldly, sophisticated, etc.

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

Many of them remained clueless about the process of how eggs and beef are pruduced for commercial sale. Yet many of them felt they were worldly, sophisticated, etc.

This makes me think of something someone posted on the other version of the forum, something like, "Not only can't they read and write [or whatever], but they will shoot you for noticing."

What really gets me is how many children are *proud* of not knowing that stuff. They'll stand up and say they don't know like it's a badge of honour. I don't get that.

[P_Cloud]

The prejudice against homeschooling is rather interesting because it makes me wonder what people then think of children living in the Outback of Australia who are educated at home via a satellite or radio correspondence course or children of missionaries who are home educated in remote areas of the world.  The acclaimed Calvert Academy curriculum used by many homeschoolers was originally created decades ago for missionary children.   
Tens of thousands of Amish, Old Order Mennonite and Hutterite children are educated only through the eighth grade, often in one room school houses with multiple grades. 

I don't think people are showing a prejudice against homeschooling, they are just speaking from their personal experiences. Just as many in this thread have criticized public schooling because of their experience with it.

Families who live in the "Outback of Australia" do not have the same resources available to one living in the US or similar locations. It is an entirely different situation when there are no alternatives.

Also, the nature being a child in a missionary family eliminates most people's biggest complaint about home schooling, which is the socialization aspect mentioned several times in this thread. Missionary kids are exposed to cultures and people different from their own, so they are learning the social skills that some homeschoolers seem to lack.

As you mentioned, there are social activities available to homeschooled students, and I think it can definitely work if a parent utilizes those tools. Sadly, I have not personally known one homeschool family who does do that. The majority of homeschool kids that I know are pretty much handed the materials and left to teach themselves.  I think learning at home can work, and may be the best option for some students,  but it takes a huge commitment from a parent, one which I think many parents don't have the time, energy, or skills to give.

To the OP -I agree that it is probably not a good idea for you to come right out and say that she thinks this is a bad decision. But casually discussing what her plans are, and presenting Sis with some information about the regulations, etc.  could help her to evaluate what is really best for her kids.

[ZipTheWonder]

 The majority of homeschool kids that I know are pretty much handed the materials and left to teach themselves. 

That pretty much describes the public portion of my education. 

Nevermind that there are people (in every type of educational situation) who consider students who are to 'teach themselves' a good outcome. 

[supernova]

For the OP, and others doing homeschooling:

I am not a parent (is that IANAP?) but I remember when I was in high school (California, late 1980s) that, for all of our music programs, we often had students from the nearby Catholic high or other alternative schools join us.  Same for Drivers Education and Drivers Training; our school was the only one with cars, so the programs were open to other schools.

I believe that it's possible to contact your local Bigcity High and ask them if an independent or homeschooled student can join the band/orchestra/chemistry lab class, and what paperwork it would take to make that happen.

Also, if you have a local junior college--I don't think it's necessary to have your GED to attend classes, and I have friends who attended college math and science classes while still in high school.  Junior colleges overlap a lot with high school courses--basic math, algebra and geometry were all available at my J.C., as well as introductory biology and other introductory science courses, band and choir, and physical education--many of which are social as well as educational.

Just my two cents...

     - saphie

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

Nevermind that there are people (in every type of educational situation) who consider students who are to 'teach themselves' a good outcome. 

Isn't that the whole point of Outcomes Based Education? About nine years ago, the Education Department here decided that OBE would be the way to go. Teachers weren't supposed to be called that; instead it was "facilitators" because the children were doing everything; we only had to "facilitate". And everything was "group work" so that those with the skills could "improve" the learning of those without.

Of course, we teachers immediately saw that this meant that one or two kids would end up doing all the work, but the others would also get marks. We argued that OBE doesn't work if you have more than about 25 kids in a class; we had 40+!

And expecting kids to teach themselves is just nonsense; given the choice they'll rather make paper aeroplanes, shoot other kids with elastics, etc.

Also, we were given such "broad" outlines of what had to be done, that teachers could basically do anything and say it satisfied the outcomes.

We said from the beginning that OBE would not work in our schools here due to large numbers, no work ethic amongst our children or parents, etc. We were ignored. It was a political thing, of course. Have to get rid of the apartheid government's education system; never mind that it taught the basics, from which all else needs to spring!

Five years down the line the GED (Gauteng Ed. Dept.) decides OBE "isn't working" because "teachers are not using it properly" and implements something else, complete with name changes of subjects (I'm sorry, I mean "learning areas") for the second time in five years.

And they wonder why the morale of teachers is low and why kids are going berserk in schools.

[Bea]

I hated high school.  I had one good friend.  Middle school and early high school, I got teased, sometimes mercilessly.  Some days it was the worst thing I could do to get out of bed and go in to face that. 

But I went.  And I learned how to deal with people who didn't like me for no reason and I learned whose opinions mattered to me, and I learned how to stand up to an awful lot of bad things, and (eventually) not to let that affect what I thought of myself.

My brother was homeschooled throughout high school because he hated it so much that he couldn't handle going.  So he homeschooled himself and my parents went along with it.

Today, we are both in our late twenties, and I am a social person with a steady relationship, a well-paying job, and lots of opportunity.  He lives at home, doesn't work and has no friends.

I do NOT mean for this to be a sharp black and white, homeschool vs. non example.  Obviously a lot more contributed to us turning out as we did than just the homeschooling issue, and no doubt homeschooling IS a wise choice for certain kids. 

Here's my point:  "what is right for the child" is definitely a good answer to all of this, but it's also important to remember that the phrase shouldn't necessarily be "what is more comfortable for the child."  Sure it would have been more comfortable for me to be homeschooled- but it also would have been a bad idea.  My brother could have gained some valuable social skills if he'd gone to school. 

The issue of homeschool in my opinion is dangerous because it is very, very tempting nowadays for people to fear damaging their child, and thus avoid pushing the comfort envelope even in the slightest.  Sometimes that envelope needs to be pushed.  Sometimes.  Not for everyone; but I'm sure glad it was for me.