Author Topic: Special Snowflake Stories  (Read 5091903 times)

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PastryGoddess

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24045 on: October 25, 2013, 09:36:15 AM »
I know obviously the little girl didn't mean badly - it's hard to follow choreography at the age of 3. But I just feel, maybe if the dance teacher knew that particular girl had trouble following the routine, they could have placed her at the end? Then she wouldn't have confused the other little girl who was on the end, who really was trying her best to follow the others.
True, the girl who didn't follow the routine was pretty cute, and was most likely enjoying herself. But I just spent the video feeling so sorry for the little girl on the end. I'm not saying the other girl should stop dancing (especially if she enjoys it), but maybe find a class/method/form of dance where she isn't distracting someone else, or almost bumping into them?

Yeah, she might have been having fun but the girl next to her was looking pretty distressed at times. Her fun should not involve upsetting her classmates.

Which girl?  Because the two girls she was between were doing just fine following the choreography as best as they could.  There is no way to know that any of the kids were upset with her for dancing that way up on stage.

Again, the kids are 3 and up on a stage probably for the first time in their lives. 

MissRose

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24046 on: October 25, 2013, 10:11:18 AM »
The teacher I had for choir taught at both the middle and high schools.  For us to get grade/credit for performances and concerts (middle school was 2 in a school year, high school we had 4 in a school year), we had to be there for the dress rehearsal and the concert itself.  Exceptions were made only for extenuating circumstances.  The teacher ensured we knew about it and enforced the rule.  Everyone showed up for both dress rehearsal and performance as it was an easy A to get for being present & trying your best.  The other class grades were for in class participation and learning to read music among other things.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24047 on: October 25, 2013, 10:13:32 AM »
I know obviously the little girl didn't mean badly - it's hard to follow choreography at the age of 3. But I just feel, maybe if the dance teacher knew that particular girl had trouble following the routine, they could have placed her at the end? Then she wouldn't have confused the other little girl who was on the end, who really was trying her best to follow the others.
True, the girl who didn't follow the routine was pretty cute, and was most likely enjoying herself. But I just spent the video feeling so sorry for the little girl on the end. I'm not saying the other girl should stop dancing (especially if she enjoys it), but maybe find a class/method/form of dance where she isn't distracting someone else, or almost bumping into them?

Yeah, she might have been having fun but the girl next to her was looking pretty distressed at times. Her fun should not involve upsetting her classmates.

She's three. Putting herself in other's shoes is a skill that would be extremely rudimentary at that stage.

The point of having 3 year olds do a recital is for them to be goofy and awkward and cute.

I think that depends on the 3 yr old. In my DD's 3 yr old dance class she had 4 other students.  One was the natural performer and star always trying to be the loudest and get the most attention, 2 were there having a good time, and then there was my DD and her best friend who were already focused on "getting it right". But my DD was also very shy so though she did fine in class, we, the teacher, and the other parents were convinced she was probably not going to even make it onto stage.

What actually happened is the "star girl" walked out on stage and sat down and cried, the 2 that were having a good time did ok. But my DD and her friend concentrated so hard on following the teacher and doing the performance perfectly we are not sure they even realized there was an audience in front of them. And if a girl had started waving her hands in front of my DD's face while she was trying to do a perfect job, I'm concerned my DD may have punched her. It would have been horribly distracting to her.  I'm fine with kid's having a good time but getting into the other girls personal space wasn't fair to her.

Virg

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24048 on: October 25, 2013, 10:29:07 AM »
Hmmmmm wrote:

"I'm fine with kid's having a good time but getting into the other girls personal space wasn't fair to her."

I agree that it's not fair, but I have to agree with Twik on this one.  Putting a group of three-year-olds on a stage and expecting anything more than the tiniest bit of order is a plan for failure, and if your child is going to participate in such an event you really have to expect that it's not going to go according to plan.  If every child who distracted another child during such a performance was to be moved to another class or method, your recital will quickly degenerate to a series of individual performances.  I definitely agree that her instructor should ask her to be more careful and not try to distract the other participants, but I do find myself wondering why this particular video made it into the "Special Snowflakes" thread when the girl was just acting like a typical three-year-old child.

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Twik

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24049 on: October 25, 2013, 10:36:36 AM »
And if a girl had started waving her hands in front of my DD's face while she was trying to do a perfect job, I'm concerned my DD may have punched her. It would have been horribly distracting to her.  I'm fine with kid's having a good time but getting into the other girls personal space wasn't fair to her.

I'd think punching another child for getting in her way is *much* more "unfair" than invading someone's space. But they are three year olds. And three year olds are barely old enough to not be trying to eat their tap shoes, rather than perform in them. Expecting them to behave like polite adults is a set-up for major disappointment.
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Hmmmmm

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24050 on: October 25, 2013, 11:14:35 AM »
And if a girl had started waving her hands in front of my DD's face while she was trying to do a perfect job, I'm concerned my DD may have punched her. It would have been horribly distracting to her.  I'm fine with kid's having a good time but getting into the other girls personal space wasn't fair to her.

I'd think punching another child for getting in her way is *much* more "unfair" than invading someone's space. But they are three year olds. And three year olds are barely old enough to not be trying to eat their tap shoes, rather than perform in them. Expecting them to behave like polite adults is a set-up for major disappointment.

OK, punch was probably the wrong word, but I do think she would have shoved her back. At 3, DD did not like hand waving in her face.

But as her parent's we saw this reaction often. DD would be concentrating on doing something, another todler would try to get her attention by waving hands in her face, tugging on her or even screaming in her face. When DD would react by pushing them away or another negative action, the encroaching child's parent's reaction was "oh, my child was just trying to get her to have some fun she wasn't trying to bother her." It was hard for them to understand their child's idea of "goofy" fun was not my serious child's idea of fun at all.  But society loves the clown so DD was perceived as the mean one.

Twik

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24051 on: October 25, 2013, 11:23:00 AM »
She's not "mean," but the other children are not being rude. They're at a stage where they're just learning the difference between "Me" and "Rest of the World". So, thinking "I wouldn't like it if someone did this to me, so I shouldn't do it to them," is often a very advanced concept to compete with the thought "I WANNA DO THIS!"
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

shhh its me

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24052 on: October 25, 2013, 11:41:16 AM »
  I don't think either is "wrong" their just too young to be in the wrong.  Getting in someone face is rude pushing someone trying to get your attention is an inappropriate response  too  but being toddlers their both still learning. Asa parent I'd be a little upset if the pushers parent didn't correct the pushing and only said "hey your child waved in her face."

Maybe its just me but I'm getting a sense you're proud your daughter is more serious then the other kids and proud she stands up for herself and are totally ready to excuse violence on her part but not the intrusive behavior on the others kids parts that provoked it.  3 years old push sometimes that's pretty normal but they wave in your face and tug on your arms  too.

Hillia

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24053 on: October 25, 2013, 11:45:32 AM »
I agree that that level of reasoning is way beyond a 3 year old, who is obviously caught up in the moment and having a fine time.  That's what parents and teachers are for, to guide the kids in working together so that everyone can have a fine time - the free form improviser and the by the book follower of choreography.  Maybe the best place for an improviser is in a class where the teacher shows them movements they use to create their own dances, and the performances are not uniform choreography but each child doing their own thing. 

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TootsNYC

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24054 on: October 25, 2013, 11:50:24 AM »
  I don't think either is "wrong" their just too young to be in the wrong.  Getting in someone face is rude pushing someone trying to get your attention is an inappropriate response  too  but being toddlers their both still learning. Asa parent I'd be a little upset if the pushers parent didn't correct the pushing and only said "hey your child waved in her face."

Maybe its just me but I'm getting a sense you're proud your daughter is more serious then the other kids and proud she stands up for herself and are totally ready to excuse violence on her part but not the intrusive behavior on the others kids parts that provoked it.  3 years old push sometimes that's pretty normal but they wave in your face and tug on your arms  too.

I didn't assume that about Hmmmm at all. Proud of her daughter's seriousness, yes.
But she did say, "I'd be concerned that my daughter would punch someone"--that's not the word choice of someone who would blow it off.

I think that it's probably good education for a 3yo to encounter a peer who is upset with them for getting "in her face." And I'd be really frustrated if I was having to say to *my* kid, "Honey, we don't push people," but the -other- parens were making excuses for -their- child instead of saying, "Honey, we don't get close to people's faces/we don't interrupt people when they are concentrating." (3yo is not too old to learn this, if someone teaches you--I've seen it done)

shhh its me

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24055 on: October 25, 2013, 12:01:07 PM »
  I don't think either is "wrong" their just too young to be in the wrong.  Getting in someone face is rude pushing someone trying to get your attention is an inappropriate response  too  but being toddlers their both still learning. Asa parent I'd be a little upset if the pushers parent didn't correct the pushing and only said "hey your child waved in her face."

Maybe its just me but I'm getting a sense you're proud your daughter is more serious then the other kids and proud she stands up for herself and are totally ready to excuse violence on her part but not the intrusive behavior on the others kids parts that provoked it.  3 years old push sometimes that's pretty normal but they wave in your face and tug on your arms  too.

I didn't assume that about Hmmmm at all. Proud of her daughter's seriousness, yes.
But she did say, "I'd be concerned that my daughter would punch someone"--that's not the word choice of someone who would blow it off.

I think that it's probably good education for a 3yo to encounter a peer who is upset with them for getting "in her face." And I'd be really frustrated if I was having to say to *my* kid, "Honey, we don't push people," but the -other- parens were making excuses for -their- child instead of saying, "Honey, we don't get close to people's faces/we don't interrupt people when they are concentrating." (3yo is not too old to learn this, if someone teaches you--I've seen it done)

Yes both parents should be correcting their kids , I guess I didn't make that clear.  Hmmm  posts just seems to me a great deal more disturbed by face waving then pushing.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24056 on: October 25, 2013, 12:39:25 PM »
  I don't think either is "wrong" their just too young to be in the wrong.  Getting in someone face is rude pushing someone trying to get your attention is an inappropriate response  too  but being toddlers their both still learning. Asa parent I'd be a little upset if the pushers parent didn't correct the pushing and only said "hey your child waved in her face."

Maybe its just me but I'm getting a sense you're proud your daughter is more serious then the other kids and proud she stands up for herself and are totally ready to excuse violence on her part but not the intrusive behavior on the others kids parts that provoked it.  3 years old push sometimes that's pretty normal but they wave in your face and tug on your arms  too.

Oh gosh, not at all. I wanted the outgoing goofy kid. The first times the scenario I described occured, my reaction was feeling like my child needed to "lighten up". It was actually an older, wiser friend who got me to understand that my DD's seriousness was her personality trait and she had as much right to be serious and want to do things perfectly without being intimidated by other children as the fun loving kids had to do things their way. There is a lot of interesting assumptions made about the parent's the kid who is intent on coloring exactly inside the lines and using realistic colors when the play group instructor is encouraging "self-expression" and "creativity".

ETA: I thought more about your comment about condoning violence. No, I don't condone violence. But there was a neighbor child who would tug on DD or if DD ignored them would wave their hands in front of DDs face yelling "HELLO,HELLO". I think at 3 or 4, DD felt as physically violated as if the girl had stomped on her foot. So if DD had pushed her back, I don't think I would have punished her more than a gentle reminder to not push.i don't have a personal space issue. I probably more prone to violate boundaries. But I'm realizing how protective I became if DDs need once I understood it was a need versus want.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 08:55:36 PM by Hmmmmm »

MommyPenguin

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24057 on: October 25, 2013, 02:25:33 PM »
If that were my 3-year-old, I'd be amused and delighted at her additional steps, but I'd talk to her afterwards about waving in the other little girl's face.  If she wants to be exuberant in the dance, that's fine, but trying to distract other kids is not.  (And yes, her intent was probably not to distract them, but to either get them to notice her/get them to join in with her, etc., but the action can be distracting.)  That was the main issue I had, the deliberate hands-waving-in-face thing.  The rest of it was adorable, and I probably wouldn't curb that unless the teacher wanted me to, along the same reasoning as the others, that they're 3, and that the audience is probably at least somewhat charmed by it.  If it was a serious school of dance with kids who showed talent and wanted to go somewhere with it (these girls were generally much better than my 3- and 4-year-old were when they had a recital), then I'd be more likely to see the extra exuberance as a problem and try to curtail it.

Jules1980

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24058 on: October 25, 2013, 07:40:32 PM »
In my now 5 year old's, 3 and 4 year old recitals, the kids all did very well.  I see this disruption as mostly the teacher's fault.  No they can't predict what will happen on stage.  But at DD's dance class, the teachers don't put up with play around in class and they definitely don't put up with it on stage.  Their philosphy is that I paid just as much for my daughter to take her lessons seriously and learn something as the class 'cut-up' or 'clown's' parents did for them to play.  And if the kid isn't interested in learning dance, then they can leave.  They usually lost a few criers or cut-ups ( i mean as in disruptive, not just silly) in the first few weeks.  Then starting about 2 months before rehearsal, they end each class talking about the girls you don't want to be at recital.  Debbie Downer who just looks down all the time, Peggy Parkinglot who didn't wait for her parents backstage but ran outside and got lost in the parking lot, Cathy Crier who cried all her make up off, etc.  Oh, and Penelope Picker who picks her nose on stage.  LOL.  All in all, they do all they can to prepare the kids for the stage night and then if some kid acts up or gets scared, then have the older classes on standby to run out onstage and help redirect them or get them over stage fright.  Works well, all in all.  DD's 3 year old recital, her class did great, though there was a kid in the 4 year old class that got stage fright and had to be led onstage by an older dancer.  $ year old recital there wasn't any problems.

Slartibartfast

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Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Reply #24059 on: October 26, 2013, 02:40:34 PM »
Friend was out to lunch at P.F. Chang's with her three kids.  Lady at the next table started making some loud PA comments about Friend's son's wheelchair and how annoying it was to have to sit next to it.  Friend's waiter called the SS lady out on it and gave Friend's son a free piece of cake for the inconvenience.  Friend has vowed to eat at P.F. Chang's a lot more in the future.