Christian Service rant!

[Cyndi]

Ulla - I mentioned it because MA and her DIL clash about it a lot regarding the grandson. MA wants the grandson to come to church, but the DIL won't bring him. The grandson is a sweet kid(he and I play stim games together where we imitate each other's stims), he's just very wild like I was at that age.

Grace - At the time, it had been two weeks and she thought she was over it, but it turns out the infection is permanently cooked into her nerves by the radiation. She can't give it to anyone, but it will hurt forever. It still shocks me that it wasn't recognized as shingles until it was too late. Right after mom had her lumpectomy, there was a screw up with the insurance so it was several months before she could start radiation. The one year mark hit two weeks after her last treatment and my mom heard shingles lasts two weeks. While she still had the rash, she wore long sleeves and gloves to handle things and wouldn't let anybody touch her skin.


Anyone else I forgot - When my mom had her lumpectomy, she took a year off where she didn't set foot in MA's office except to say hello. The only CS thing she did was the specialized Bible Study for a mentally disabled man going through the Rites of Christian Initiation(we both watched his Confirmation and it was so neat!). Outside of the holidays my mom goes to CS and helps with groceries and stuff on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday for a few short hours a day(11 am - 1 pm). The other regulars work about the same number of hours and MA stays longer to man the phones and give direction when needed. MA is trying "something new" by stretching holiday events all over the month instead of in one weekend and then having fits when people drop out. This switch makes things easier for *MA*, but extremely inconvenient for everybody else. Maybe if enough people complain, we'll avoid this at Easter. Doubt it. Last year Easter boutique was a walking-on-eggshells disaster for reasons my mom won't talk about. Earlier this morning my mom made an offhand comment that a lot of the help is flakey people who are as reliable as the weather with maybe two others(including herself) who come with bells on when needed. I didn't know this before, so that might explain why MA is acting so terrible.

As for the baking - I help with that. Mom makes the dough and stuff and I help by pressing shapes into the cookies or putting on sprinkles. So I can sprinkle up one sheet and then while those are baking, fix up another one and she can fuss over something else without worrying about sprinkles. It saves her a ton of time.

And btw my mom did bow out of Adopt a Family. That's going on today and tomorrow and my mom will not go to church for any of it. She's a bit miffed at MA wanting her to give up something she's done for years just to work herself into the ground. I guess the lack of thanks is getting to her.

And yes everybody who gets cookies loves them. The men in the choir keep leaning over and asking me when the cookies are coming and I keep jokingly telling them, "When Santa delivers!" (aka next Thursday).

Speaking of cookies.....I smell chocolate chip cookies baking right now!

[Ulla dances in a silly way]

Ulla - I mentioned it because MA and her DIL clash about it a lot regarding the grandson. MA wants the grandson to come to church, but the DIL won't bring him. The grandson is a sweet kid(he and I play stim games together where we imitate each other's stims), he's just very wild like I was at that age.

Going to church does not make a good child.

-Ulla

[Cyndi]

^ Agreed. Just look at her son From what I heard he screwed up the mortgage(sp?) on her house and she's such a pushover that she keeps forking over money when he demands it. The reason she gives in so easily is if she doesn't, he swears he'll take his wife and the grandson and move across the country and she'll never see the grandson again. No matter what MA does, she loses, so she's really stuck in a terrible home life.

[quietgirl]

I never post, but I just had to this time.  It doesn't appear to me the MA is a bad person per se.  As a nonprofit professional, it seems to me that MA may just be very bad at managing volunteers and is obviously under a lot of pressure to make sure the organization is serving it's beneficiaries.   The hardest job as the leader of a nonprofit organization is managing volunteers.  Managing volunteers is very difficult and very different from managing paid employees.  Combine that with the fact that there are very few, if any, training programs for managing volunteers and the fact that many nonprofit leaders are hired because they are good at the service end of the nonprofit's work - not the management or administrative end, and now you have the classic dysfunctional nonprofit agency.

To the OP, I would advise your mother to be very clear with MA as to what her time committment is and what physical limitations she has.  Until she does that MA is going to continue to depend on her, because it is sooo much easier to depend on the volunteers she has in front of her than to recruit new ones.  When MA sees that she can't depend on your mother for everything she'll be forced to do more recruitment.

Also, it might be a really good idea if your mother suggests to MA, MA's board of directors or other supervisor, that MA seek out volunteer management training opportunities.  It can only help the organization be stronger.  I know that if it were me, I would appreciate the feedback - and a third party telling my board of directors that I need to be invested in!

And a side note (otherwise known as my soapbox) - all volunteering and other forms of nonprofit support should be done for the organization and the mission - not for individuals.  Attention to the mission and the overall effectiveness of the organization by supporters is what makes a nonprofit strong and sustainable.

[Clara Bow]

I think that your mother needs to talk to the pastor about what's going on, I can appreciate that MA doesn't know how to handle volunteers, but she has made some cruel comments to the OP's mother ("no one likes those cookies", "suck it up, it can't be that bad") that have nothing to do with poor management skills. She needs to be removed from her post, as she is not handling it properly and her behavior skirts being abusive only by a hair or two.
BTW, I love homemade cookies and sure would like some!

[Adah]

Going to church does not make a good child.
-Ulla

Going to church could have a very positive effect on this child. In addition to the religious instruction that could inform his values, he also could interact with more children his age in a positive environment that might help him better understand appropriate behaviors. And he very well could make friends with other children whose parents could become an additional support group for MA, which might take some of the pressure off the OP's mother. For many, many people, going to church offers a profoundly positive and calming experience.

Given the complexity of the OP's situation and the importance of so many aspects regarding it, I find it odd that you would elevate one comment about atheism, which didn't seem that central to the larger issues, as a matter for discussion. Are you particularly sensitive about atheism? 



 

[Chartreuse]

Going to church could have a very positive effect on this child. In addition to the religious instruction that could inform his values, he also could interact with more children his age in a positive environment that might help him better understand appropriate behaviors. And he very well could make friends with other children whose parents could become an additional support group for MA, which might take some of the pressure off the OP's mother. For many, many people, going to church offers a profoundly positive and calming experience.

Given the complexity of the OP's situation and the importance of so many aspects regarding it, I find it odd that you would elevate one comment about atheism, which didn't seem that central to the larger issues, as a matter for discussion. Are you particularly sensitive about atheism?

I'm going to step in briefly, on the OT tangent, and completely agree with Ulla.  This one is a sensitive one for me, as I've got some classic toxic parents.  One of their favorite subjects to throw around is their religion.  It is very likely that they'll try to manipulate or force certain religious influences in our child's life, all of which we feel are very negative. 

All healthy parents go out of their way to protect their child and raise them in a way that they feel is best and the most beneficial to their child. This goes for atheists as well as members of various religions, it's just a part of being a caring parent.  For somebody else, family member or not, to try to usurp the parents' authority and feelings on something as major as beliefs and what to teach a child, is completely inappropriate.  In this case, the MIL is completely in the wrong if she's trying to pressure her DIL and son to let her take the grandson to church with her.  Obviously, they have strong feelings about it, and the fact she keeps pushing is not only gauche, but extremely insulting to the DIL and son.  NOT COOL.  The family obviously has a lot of issues going on, but in this particular case, MA is the one who is in the wrong.  Actually... considering how she treats your mom and her own family, it probably could be said that she's also a toxic person.  Her son may have issues, but in this case the fruit sounds like it hasn't fallen too far from the tree.

Now, back to the charity stuff.  If MA is being a pain, and talking to those higher up doesn't solve anything, why doesn't your mom find somewhere she'll be appreciated?  There are plenty of charities that would love and appreciate her help?

[Ehelldame]

My mom volunteers for Christian Service. She fixes homeless lunches, does all the shopping for the poor family groceries, lugs heavy boxes she really shouldn't be lifting around and gives as much time as humanly possible to the head of this service, who I'll call MA.

First, it is irrelevent what type of service this is because the issue is not the organization but the specific person running it.  Denoting it as a "volunteer organization" would have achieved the same degree of comprehension in the readers. 

Second, this is a secondhand rant and it is generally not considered good etiquette to take up the offenses of others.   The issue is your mom's, not yours and since I assume you've talked with your mom about this, the fact that she still places herself in a position to be abused is her choice to make.  She is an adult and she has made the choice to do what she is doing.   The next most logical person to be concerned for her would be your father who does have the ability to release her from baking cookies for all his co-workers.   

Had you been the protagonist of the story, I'd tell you to make your choices and then have no regrets.   Charity organizations run through volunteers like water in a seive so CS is no different than many others.  Somehow the poor continue to be served despite this.  The belief that "I alone am the difference in people's lives" burns out many a decent person and destroys family relationships but there are people who choose to do this.  If MA wants to do that to herself and her family, that's her choice.  If your mom continues to choose to be sucked into serving in ways that damage herself, she's made that choice.  It stinks watching loved ones do this to themselves but the bottom line is, your mom was an adult making her own decisions long before you came around and one must assume she has chosen to place herself in these situations and is therefore willing to live with the consequences. 

[MineralDiva]

I told my mom that she should start cutting back all of her time and not just her holiday time so MA can learn that my mom has a life outside of Christian Service.

I think you hit the nail right on the head there!  As long as your mom allows this MA person to use her, she will be used...AND abused.  She's gotta put her foot down, mean it, and not allow herself to be bullied by this "creature."

It's hard to set boundaries, when its something you love to do...and you know there are people who are benefitting.  But they really must be set in this situation.  MA's son is not rhe only one who is toxic!

[Adah]

I'm going to step in briefly, on the OT tangent, and completely agree with Ulla.  This one is a sensitive one for me, as I've got some classic toxic parents.  One of their favorite subjects to throw around is their religion.  It is very likely that they'll try to manipulate or force certain religious influences in our child's life, all of which we feel are very negative. 

All healthy parents go out of their way to protect their child and raise them in a way that they feel is best and the most beneficial to their child. This goes for atheists as well as members of various religions, it's just a part of being a caring parent.  For somebody else, family member or not, to try to usurp the parents' authority and feelings on something as major as beliefs and what to teach a child, is completely inappropriate.  In this case, the MIL is completely in the wrong if she's trying to pressure her DIL and son to let her take the grandson to church with her.  Obviously, they have strong feelings about it, and the fact she keeps pushing is not only gauche, but extremely insulting to the DIL and son.  NOT COOL.  The family obviously has a lot of issues going on, but in this particular case, MA is the one who is in the wrong.  Actually... considering how she treats your mom and her own family, it probably could be said that she's also a toxic person.  Her son may have issues, but in this case the fruit sounds like it hasn't fallen too far from the tree.

I understand clashes over religion. I was pointing out that the central issue in this situation is the OP's mother and MA, not MA's family dynamics regarding what to practice. I found it odd that someone would focus on the comment about atheism instead of the dilemma facing the OP, which is the situation regarding her mother. It appeared to me that Ulla exhibited a level of personal sensitivity about atheism, which is why she queried the OP about it, and I wanted her to clarify that.

[Chocolate Cake]

I haven't read all the replies, so this may have already been mentioned.   

The coordinator of this volunteer organization is, as you know, abusing her helpers.  Who does MA report to?  There must be someone that can reign her in.

[Cyndi]

My mom and I discussed it a bit on the way home from Mass and she mentioned that MA is under so much stress and it's MA's own fault for setting up all the holiday activities the way she did. My mom would have loved to take over and organize these things(she's very good at managing time and order!), but MA was all "No, no, I can do it!" So my mom got fed up and let her.

I think the main problem with MA is she seems to lack empathy for others suffering. If she's in a bad mood or not feeling so well, she'll complain about it and then if you pipe in with "yeah I know, I have to..." or "Man, I know how that feels, I had an ache..." she'd turn around and be like "I don't want to hear it."

Mom chalks it up to stress, so she's just staying away until after Christmas because SHE doesn't want to get talked at about someone's misery and then not have them listen when she offers advice. My mom is a tough lady and she lets a lot roll off her back. The thing that made her mad was MA demanding that my mom let everything go and spend all her time in CS. That was mom's limit and she bowed out for awhile, saying, "I have a life to tend to, I'm sorry."

On the bright side, the Adopt a Family went well without my mom, so maybe MA will see that the world isn't going to crash down when my mom isn't there.

[Tabris]

MA was all "No, no, I can do it!" So my mom got fed up and let her.

I think your mom, the next time MA asks her for something unreasonable, should just say, "No, no, you can do it."

MA sounds like a serious control freak. "I don't want to hear it"? Seriously--that's insane. If you're doing charity work, then you should be doing it from a feeling of generosity and good will toward others and a need to alleviate others' suffering.

I think your mother should ask her, if she can't show caring toward the people in front of her, how can she possibly expect to show caring toward people she can't see?

[Ulla dances in a silly way]

I'm going to step in briefly, on the OT tangent, and completely agree with Ulla.  This one is a sensitive one for me, as I've got some classic toxic parents.  One of their favorite subjects to throw around is their religion.  It is very likely that they'll try to manipulate or force certain religious influences in our child's life, all of which we feel are very negative. 

All healthy parents go out of their way to protect their child and raise them in a way that they feel is best and the most beneficial to their child. This goes for atheists as well as members of various religions, it's just a part of being a caring parent.  For somebody else, family member or not, to try to usurp the parents' authority and feelings on something as major as beliefs and what to teach a child, is completely inappropriate.  In this case, the MIL is completely in the wrong if she's trying to pressure her DIL and son to let her take the grandson to church with her.  Obviously, they have strong feelings about it, and the fact she keeps pushing is not only gauche, but extremely insulting to the DIL and son.  NOT COOL.  The family obviously has a lot of issues going on, but in this particular case, MA is the one who is in the wrong.  Actually... considering how she treats your mom and her own family, it probably could be said that she's also a toxic person.  Her son may have issues, but in this case the fruit sounds like it hasn't fallen too far from the tree.

I understand clashes over religion. I was pointing out that the central issue in this situation is the OP's mother and MA, not MA's family dynamics regarding what to practice. I found it odd that someone would focus on the comment about atheism instead of the dilemma facing the OP, which is the situation regarding her mother. It appeared to me that Ulla exhibited a level of personal sensitivity about atheism, which is why she queried the OP about it, and I wanted her to clarify that.

Sorry about the long time replying, I was without internet for a while.

I am not sensitive about atheism in particular. I'm not an atheist. I'm not mainstream Christian, but I'm not an athiest.

I am sensitive about people equating different with evil. Without going into my personal life, I have spent a lot of effort and emotion trying to convince certain people in my life that I am not Hellbound for being different.

Maybe church would help the kid, I'm not arguing that point. I will say that the most hyppocritical, judgemental people I've ever met are in organized religion. There's nothing like having your Sunday School teacher who just taught you about love look down her nose at you for you clothing choices. At least I covered my cleavage and kept my bacon-fed knave tucked in my skirt, I can't say that much for most other girls in my Youth Group. Of course, your experiance may vary. Many people I know loved their Youth Groups/church time. I just didn't fit in and didn't care to pretend to.

-Ulla

[opqdan]

Sorry about the long time replying, I was without internet for a while.

I am not sensitive about atheism in particular. I'm not an atheist. I'm not mainstream Christian, but I'm not an athiest.

I am sensitive about people equating different with evil. Without going into my personal life, I have spent a lot of effort and emotion trying to convince certain people in my life that I am not Hellbound for being different.

Maybe church would help the kid, I'm not arguing that point. I will say that the most hyppocritical, judgemental people I've ever met are in organized religion. There's nothing like having your Sunday School teacher who just taught you about love look down her nose at you for you clothing choices. At least I covered my cleavage and kept my bacon-fed knave tucked in my skirt, I can't say that much for most other girls in my Youth Group. Of course, your experiance may vary. Many people I know loved their Youth Groups/church time. I just didn't fit in and didn't care to pretend to.

-Ulla

(this isn't directed at Ulla, who I mostly agree with, but rather the others who see no problem)
When reading the OP, I got to that point about atheism and thought "so what?".  There didn't seem to be any reason to mention it.  Whether or not the DIL is atheist adds nothing to the account, and sticks out like a sore thumb.  I doubt that the OP mentioned it as an example of the woman's bad parenting skills (at least, I hope not).  But even unconciously, things like this happen all the time.

I will openly admit that I am an atheist, so I deal with this on a daily issue.  People use the term in a negative way and never catch any flack for it, simply because atheists are such a minority.  Imagine if I were to replace "DIL who is an atheist" with "DIL who is Jewish" or even "DIL who is black".  See the problem?

To really see the effect that it has, imagine I were describing a secular charity (and made a point that it was secular), and then said "DIL who is a Christian".  The obvious implication here is that there is a problem with being Christian, whether I would mean that or not.

I can understand the need to differentiate between people.  For instance, if there were a group of people of whom one was black, I would say "the black person" simply because that sepparates them from the others.  In this case it would be okay, but there was no reason to differentiate the DIL from the other people in the story.

I once again want to point out that I will give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume she didn't mean it in such a way.  I just ask that she think about the implications before writing it like that in the future.

Also, to Ulla, I doubt you are alone in the idea that more bad people come from religion than not, but I also doubt it is actually true.  It makes sense that in a country with a 3-9% atheist/agnostic/non-believer population that only 3-9% of the bad/rude people you meet will be part of that same group.  This means that 97% of the jerks you meet would be expected to be Christians.  I doubt the number of jerks per capita is different between any religious groups.

This may be off topic, but it is an etiquette issue brought up by the OP.