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HollysCats

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2011, 02:58:43 AM »
17. When it comes to tail docking, ear cropping, de clawing, breeding, or any other controversial subject, it is not your business what another pet owner chooses to do or not do. As much as you may despise the practice, it is not abuse, and therefore it is not acceptable to comment on it. Please note that laws detailing abuse differ from area to area. Please be informed before taking any action.

Whether it's abuse or not is a matter of opinion that reasonable people disagree on; "it is not abuse" is a statement of support of one side of the controversy and actually violates the rule about not commenting on it. I'd propose something like this:

17. Tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, etc. are controversial subjects. Please be aware that emotions can run high and take care to discuss these subjects respectfully (if at all).

KenveeB

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2011, 08:52:39 AM »
-If you antagonize an animal (like pulling its tail/hair/skin), please do not blame the owner if/when the animal reacts. It's not the animal's fault.

-On the other hand, if your animal does cause harm to another person, don't blame the person. The excuses "You ran away from Fido!", "You were giving off an odor that made pet react" and "You are pregnant. What did you expect him to do?" do not mean that your pet was justified in harming someone.

I think those are excellent corollaries.  You should absolutely control your animal.  I get really annoyed when people leave their dogs to run around without trying to control them.  They come running up to my dogs barking and snarling, and the owners just laugh from off to the side and say "It's okay, he's friendly."  Okay, well, maybe mine aren't.  You have no way of knowing that.  You should never let your dog go running up to a stranger or a strange dog.

But by the same token, you should also not blame an animal for acting like an animal when you provoke it.  I'm still bitter at the lady who calls my well-behaved and trained boxer a "crazy dog" because he jumped up and knocked over her child.  Well, her child ran up behind him shrieking at the top of her lungs.  Yes, he jumped.  What do you expect??  Some animals would have attacked, but all he did was jump because he was startled.  And Precious ran up so close to him that of course she was knocked over.  He wasn't going after her or trying to jump into her, but she acts like he was Cujo. :p   (For the record, she ran up so quickly I didn't see her either, or I would've been able to hold him down when he started to jump.)

Mopsy428

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2011, 12:34:41 PM »
I
-If you antagonize an animal (like pulling its tail/hair/skin), please do not blame the owner if/when the animal reacts. It's not the animal's fault.

-On the other hand, if your animal does cause harm to another person, don't blame the person. The excuses "You ran away from Fido!", "You were giving off an odor that made pet react" and "You are pregnant. What did you expect him to do?" do not mean that your pet was justified in harming someone.

I think those are excellent corollaries.  You should absolutely control your animal.  I get really annoyed when people leave their dogs to run around without trying to control them.  They come running up to my dogs barking and snarling, and the owners just laugh from off to the side and say "It's okay, he's friendly."  Okay, well, maybe mine aren't.  You have no way of knowing that.  You should never let your dog go running up to a stranger or a strange dog.

But by the same token, you should also not blame an animal for acting like an animal when you provoke it.  I'm still bitter at the lady who calls my well-behaved and trained boxer a "crazy dog" because he jumped up and knocked over her child.  Well, her child ran up behind him shrieking at the top of her lungs.  Yes, he jumped.  What do you expect??  Some animals would have attacked, but all he did was jump because he was startled.  And Precious ran up so close to him that of course she was knocked over.  He wasn't going after her or trying to jump into her, but she acts like he was Cujo. :p   (For the record, she ran up so quickly I didn't see her either, or I would've been able to hold him down when he started to jump.)
Oh, yes! I meant to include animal along with the owner in the first part!

snowdragon

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2011, 06:43:50 PM »


10. Do not correct someone else's animal unless you have their permission to do so.


I someone's dog is on my property or is acting aggressively towards me or my things I am going to correct it. Same thing with jumping or trying to take food from me,ect. I f you can't handle that then don't  allow it to act in a manner that will force someone into a position where they need to correct your pet. ever

HollysCats

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2011, 11:13:16 PM »
17. When it comes to tail docking, ear cropping, de clawing, breeding, or any other controversial subject, it is not your business what another pet owner chooses to do or not do. As much as you may despise the practice, it is not abuse, and therefore it is not acceptable to comment on it. Please note that laws detailing abuse differ from area to area. Please be informed before taking any action.

Whether it's abuse or not is a matter of opinion that reasonable people disagree on; "it is not abuse" is a statement of support of one side of the controversy and actually violates the rule about not commenting on it. I'd propose something like this:

17. Tail docking, ear cropping, declawing, etc. are controversial subjects. Please be aware that emotions can run high and take care to discuss these subjects respectfully (if at all).

It is not abuse according to the law. If you can't call and report it, it's not polite to comment on it. If you would like for those things to be considered abuse, the polite course of action is to change the law. There are a lot of people who believe that it is not rude to comment on these things because they are passionate about them. That is not the case.



Declawing is illegal in many jurisdictions, including several cities in California.

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2011, 03:40:53 AM »
The difficulty in that is when speaking internationally from places which have different laws.  In my country, a dog breed which is very popular in the States is legally defined as a "Dangerous Dog" and banned.  I admit I get very annoyed by people who say that anyone who thinks this breed is "dangerous" is "stupid" or "easily led".  This is my country's legal system being insulted, and myself for following the law!!!

veryfluffy

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2011, 08:45:00 AM »


10. Do not correct someone else's animal unless you have their permission to do so.


I someone's dog is on my property or is acting aggressively towards me or my things I am going to correct it. Same thing with jumping or trying to take food from me,ect. I f you can't handle that then don't  allow it to act in a manner that will force someone into a position where they need to correct your pet. ever

Obviously, if the dog's behaviour is affecting you or your property directly, you can do what is necessary. For instance, I know that if my dog is in the sheep field and chases the sheep, the farmer is within his rights to shoot the dog without warning.

The statement about not correcting someone else's pet has more to do with things that do not affect you. For instance, if you are in my home and the cat is on the kitchen counter, you don't get to shoo it off. If my dog is jumping up on me, you don't tell it to get down because you disapprove.

Perhaps the statement needs to reflect that:

10. Do not correct someone else's animal unless you have their permission to do so, if the animal's behaviour is not acting dangerously or directly affecting you, your family or your property.

A bit complicated, so maybe someone can tidy that?
   

Hollanda

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2011, 09:12:34 AM »
Veryfluffy, my soon to be MIL is constantly harassing me about OUR cats. They are permitted in the kitchen when there is no food around, because the mummy cat likes to sleep on top of the boiler. They don't stay on the top where we prepare food, the preparation counters are kept scrupulously clean with antibacterial spray, and the kitchen door is shut when we're not around (kitten causes mayhem otherwise!). Likewise they are NOT permitted in the bedroom unless one of us is upstairs with them - no problems letting mummy cat lay on our bed whilst we're there (for example if I want a snooze whilst DF is working on a Saturday, the cat quite often curls up beside me on the pillow and sleeps). 

MIL constantly tells me how unhygienic that is and says they should NEVER go upstairs or in the kitchen. I'm sorry, but they are OUR cats and we do work at keeping our house tidy and clean. I would never correct her on how she decides to keep house! She hates cats and never fails to tell us that. Fine. But we happen to love our cats!!! Telling us that they are "flea ridden" and "dirty" is inaccurate and wrong (they are not dirty and they do not have fleas, as we do check them and they have regular visits to the V-E-T-S)!

One person's preference is not always everyone's and a little tolerance goes a long way.
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Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.


Black Delphinium

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2011, 10:10:44 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again- "They live here, and you do not. They can do in their home what they like."
When angels go bad, they go worse than anyone. Remember, Lucifer was an angel. ~The Marquis De Carabas

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2011, 06:12:11 AM »
The difficulty in that is when speaking internationally from places which have different laws.  In my country, a dog breed which is very popular in the States is legally defined as a "Dangerous Dog" and banned.  I admit I get very annoyed by people who say that anyone who thinks this breed is "dangerous" is "stupid" or "easily led".  This is my country's legal system being insulted, and myself for following the law!!!

That one would actually violate the rule governing BSL.

BSL?  What's that?

Hollanda

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2011, 07:29:18 AM »
The difficulty in that is when speaking internationally from places which have different laws.  In my country, a dog breed which is very popular in the States is legally defined as a "Dangerous Dog" and banned.  I admit I get very annoyed by people who say that anyone who thinks this breed is "dangerous" is "stupid" or "easily led".  This is my country's legal system being insulted, and myself for following the law!!!

That one would actually violate the rule governing BSL.

BSL?  What's that?

BSL - Breed Specific Legislation. It seems to be a US version of our Dangerous Dogs Act over here in the UK, and bans certain breeds or types of dog based on appearance and behavioural characteristics.  It seems that there are certain groups in the US have issues with BSL, although I for one am in favour of the idea. However, in the UK it has proven quite difficult to actually police and relies solely on people informing authorities where they think a banned or potentially dangerous dog can be found.  There are certain points that people repeatedly miss when it comes to responsible ownership of a dog:

- It is NEVER OK to leave a dog alone with a child. Under any circumstances. Children, especially toddlers, can unintentionally tease a dog, pulling its tail, ears, whatever. Children should be taught from the start that animals are living creatures and pulling tails is extremely cruel and hurts the animal, a bit like someone pulling our ears. When dogs are frightened, they can turn nasty and go on the attack.  Dogs and children must be supervised by an adult at all times, as it only takes a fraction of a second for a dog to turn.

- It is NEVER OK to take a dog to a strange, loud, unfamiliar public place, particularly if alcohol is being consumed. Dogs tend not to like large crowds of people that they don't know, and it's not a great idea to combine animals and alcohol in any case. Loud bars and pubs are not the place for dogs unless they specifically welcome well-trained or well-behaved dogs (and owners). Allowing a dog to be unleashed in crowded places is a huge no.

- Dogs are not little people. They are pack animals and need to be shown who is boss.  Allow a dog to feel as though they are in control will result in a poorly trained dog liable to behave unpredictably.

- Dogs are not fashion accessories, neither are they status symbols. It should be a given, but in the UK there are issues (particularly within council housed property areas) where people purchase a specific breed or type of dog in order to intimidate other people. It's unfair on the dog and unfair on innocent passers-by when you have to walk past a growling dog, even if they are on a leash.

You would not believe how many times I have seen people violating these basic rules with dogs.  It all comes down to respect - you need to train the dog properly from the start, ensure responsible ownership by making sure the dog is on a lead when out in public and never encourage strangers to pet your dog, particularly if you know your dog is nervous around strangers (which dogs often are).  I don't own a dog, but would love to in the future, and if and when DF and I do own a dog we would be very careful as to the breed we select, buy from a reputable irresponsible parent of the human variety and train the dog well from the word go.  Dogs are a LOT of hard work, regardless of breed, and require attention, care and above all, respect!!!!

Sorry for the rant!!!!! I hope I make sense...!
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Mopsy428

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2011, 10:42:13 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again- "They live here, and you do not. They can do in their home what they like."
Yes, they live there. But if the owner invites people over, the owner should control the dog and not let him or her bite, lick, or jump on people, among other things. And if the dog does those things, the owner should get the dog under control as soon as possible.

I'm not saying that animals should be kept out of sight. I would never expect that. However, if you (general) invite me over your house, I'm going to assume that you can control your animal. If not, it's best that you refrain from having people over until the animal can behave or you decide to put the animal where it won't be jumping on people.

SiotehCat

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2011, 10:52:05 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again- "They live here, and you do not. They can do in their home what they like."
Yes, they live there. But if the owner invites people over, the owner should control the dog and not let him or her bite, lick, or jump on people, among other things. And if the dog does those things, the owner should get the dog under control as soon as possible.

I'm not saying that animals should be kept out of sight. I would never expect that. However, if you (general) invite me over your house, I'm going to assume that you can control your animal. If not, it's best that you refrain from having people over until the animal can behave or you decide to put the animal where it won't be jumping on people.

I agree with this. This is also why I never invite anyone over. Ever. I am just not willing to kick my cats off the sofa/table/etc for anyone.

veryfluffy

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2011, 08:06:11 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again- "They live here, and you do not. They can do in their home what they like."
Yes, they live there. But if the owner invites people over, the owner should control the dog and not let him or her bite, lick, or jump on people, among other things. And if the dog does those things, the owner should get the dog under control as soon as possible.

I'm not saying that animals should be kept out of sight. I would never expect that. However, if you (general) invite me over your house, I'm going to assume that you can control your animal. If not, it's best that you refrain from having people over until the animal can behave or you decide to put the animal where it won't be jumping on people.

But the issue isn't contact between pet and visiting human. It is that visitors do not get to shoo Kitty off the table, or Killer off the sofa, or complain about the animal being allowed to do X, Y or Z if it doesn't affect them personally. Obviously you shouldn't have to put up with any physical contact that you don't want.
   

Hollanda

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2011, 09:27:32 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again- "They live here, and you do not. They can do in their home what they like."
Yes, they live there. But if the owner invites people over, the owner should control the dog and not let him or her bite, lick, or jump on people, among other things. And if the dog does those things, the owner should get the dog under control as soon as possible.

I'm not saying that animals should be kept out of sight. I would never expect that. However, if you (general) invite me over your house, I'm going to assume that you can control your animal. If not, it's best that you refrain from having people over until the animal can behave or you decide to put the animal where it won't be jumping on people.

But the issue isn't contact between pet and visiting human. It is that visitors do not get to shoo Kitty off the table, or Killer off the sofa, or complain about the animal being allowed to do X, Y or Z if it doesn't affect them personally. Obviously you shouldn't have to put up with any physical contact that you don't want.

Very true.
Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.