Author Topic: Pet Etiquette  (Read 27019 times)

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Ciarrai

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2011, 10:28:33 AM »
Some animals are pets.

Some animals are livestock.  Livestock is sometimes used for food.  Yes, there is a real possibility that cute fuzzy thing you are holding is going to be on the table in a couple months, in a nice lemon-butter sauce.  Unless you are a vegan, you have zero right to say anything.  If you are a vegan, it's still rude to say anything.


Vegetarians too, or just vegans?

Garden Goblin

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2011, 01:27:13 PM »
Some animals are pets.

Some animals are livestock.  Livestock is sometimes used for food.  Yes, there is a real possibility that cute fuzzy thing you are holding is going to be on the table in a couple months, in a nice lemon-butter sauce.  Unless you are a vegan, you have zero right to say anything.  If you are a vegan, it's still rude to say anything.


Vegetarians too, or just vegans?

Basically, the girls provide milk and eggs, and the boys provide meat.  If someone eats anything that contains eggs, milk, or meat, they really don't have the right to judge, especially since my animals are kept in much better conditions than the ones that provide the stuff you buy in stores.  The hens that provide eggs for the store often live their lives in a cage or warehouse that provides them with no more than 2 square feet of space, and never see daylight.  My girls are full on free-range with approximately a quarter acre per critter of roaming space.  Though for some reason, they all must lay in the same nest box and ignore the other 19, and must all sleep crammed together in the same roost rather than use one of the other four.  It's understandable in the winter when they huddle for additional warm, but they do it all year round.

"The man who buys the meat is brother to the butcher" - Heinlein.

Larrabee

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2011, 01:43:41 PM »

And no, it is not wrong of me to laugh my behind off when you let your little yappy dog chase one of the birds and the roo,  tom, or gander takes exception and retaliates.  Be glad it was them and not the livestock guardian dog or the goat.

I'm pretty sure its always rude to 'laugh your behind off' at another's misfortune.  Think what you want but its not good etiquette to laugh openly at people.

I also think its kind of rude to refer to people's loved pets as 'yappy' when you mean it to be an insult.

StarDrifter

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2011, 07:32:25 PM »

And no, it is not wrong of me to laugh my behind off when you let your little yappy dog chase one of the birds and the roo,  tom, or gander takes exception and retaliates.  Be glad it was them and not the livestock guardian dog or the goat.

I'm pretty sure its always rude to 'laugh your behind off' at another's misfortune.  Think what you want but its not good etiquette to laugh openly at people.

I also think its kind of rude to refer to people's loved pets as 'yappy' when you mean it to be an insult.

She didn't' say that it wasn't rude; she said that it wasn't *wrong*.

I agree- having witnessed a pug dog who was let off leash at a farm against the farmers' recommendation, I laughed too when the gander hissed at it after the pug tried to growl at him, and the pug ran away terrified.

The owner in that case was extremely lucky that the pug had gone for the gander and not the bigger prize of the nearby steer who would have kicked him a hundred yards without blinking.

If a person lets their dog chase someone else's animals (especially if those animals are livestock and are part of a persons' livelihood) then they deserve consequences, and I believe are being far more rude than there person who laughs when the dog gets chased back by a gander or tom that it underestimated.
... it might frighten them.
Victoria,

Garden Goblin

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2011, 09:11:54 PM »
She didn't' say that it wasn't rude; she said that it wasn't *wrong*.

Having lost the amount of livestock I have to people's 'sweet little pups that wouldn't hurt a fly', just laughing at it for getting chased by the goose is about the nicest and most polite response it's likely to get.

Misfortune is getting struck by lightning, and laughing is cruel.  Sticking your finger in an electric socket after arguing with the person telling you not to is something else entirely, and the laughter at your expense is earned.

Letting your dog out of the car on private property, pointing at the chickens, and saying 'get up', is far more akin to the electric socket than the random lightning strike.  It's not 'cute' or 'funny' even when the chickens outmass the dog, because they still run and can still get hurt due to panicking. 

Yes.  It's rude to laugh at other people's 'misfortune', which is why it is extremely rude to take your predator to another person's private property and encourage it to terrorize their animals, which may be livestock or 'loved pets', both of which I have lost to this kind of 'joke'. 

Good etiquette is not letting your animal onto someone else's property without their express permission and keeping it under control at all times. 

Lynnv

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2011, 10:08:13 PM »
She didn't' say that it wasn't rude; she said that it wasn't *wrong*.

Having lost the amount of livestock I have to people's 'sweet little pups that wouldn't hurt a fly', just laughing at it for getting chased by the goose is about the nicest and most polite response it's likely to get.

I agree.  We grew up far enough out that we had chickens and ducks that were lost to a neighbor's out of control dog.  Even a little dog can wreak havoc.  We also had horses run into (and through) fences by someone's out of control dog.  Laughing when a dog finds out a goose isn't a nice critter it is not rude, IMO.

Of course, I will also admit to (despite the above about horses going through fences) laughing like a complete loon when my little Peke mix scared my mom's horse.  I thought my mom was going to fall over laughing.  The dog was leashed, didn't bark and, based on him having bad eyesight out of the one eye that he did have, probably didn't even really see the horse.  But she took off to the other side of the corral and would not come back over until I took Sidd out of her sight.  It would not have been funny if Sparks got hurt-but she didn't.  She just took off as if Sidd was a 200-pound wolf with horse eating history instead of a 15 pound dust-mop with delusions of Emperor-hood.  And she was, literally, around dogs her entire life-we always had dogs, including little and big ones.  In fact, when she was born (the first horse I ever watched born), there was a little poodle (and a big old barn-cat) in the barn watching with us.

This is, of course, the same horse who was convinced for all of her 30+ years on this planet) that sheep eat big red horses, so we were used to laughing at her fear of non-predatory animals.  Yes-dogs are technically predatory-but Sidd was little, leashed, at least 3/4 blind and dumb-about as predatory as the average couch cushion.  And he was at least 6 meters from the fence, as I didn't trust him not to get underfoot since he knew nothing about horses and probably couldn't really see them anyway.
Lynn

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Onyx_TKD

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2011, 03:16:13 AM »
She didn't' say that it wasn't rude; she said that it wasn't *wrong*.

Having lost the amount of livestock I have to people's 'sweet little pups that wouldn't hurt a fly', just laughing at it for getting chased by the goose is about the nicest and most polite response it's likely to get.

I agree.  We grew up far enough out that we had chickens and ducks that were lost to a neighbor's out of control dog.  Even a little dog can wreak havoc.  We also had horses run into (and through) fences by someone's out of control dog.  Laughing when a dog finds out a goose isn't a nice critter it is not rude, IMO.

Of course, I will also admit to (despite the above about horses going through fences) laughing like a complete loon when my little Peke mix scared my mom's horse.  I thought my mom was going to fall over laughing.  The dog was leashed, didn't bark and, based on him having bad eyesight out of the one eye that he did have, probably didn't even really see the horse.  But she took off to the other side of the corral and would not come back over until I took Sidd out of her sight.  It would not have been funny if Sparks got hurt-but she didn't.  She just took off as if Sidd was a 200-pound wolf with horse eating history instead of a 15 pound dust-mop with delusions of Emperor-hood.  And she was, literally, around dogs her entire life-we always had dogs, including little and big ones.  In fact, when she was born (the first horse I ever watched born), there was a little poodle (and a big old barn-cat) in the barn watching with us.

This is, of course, the same horse who was convinced for all of her 30+ years on this planet) that sheep eat big red horses, so we were used to laughing at her fear of non-predatory animals.  Yes-dogs are technically predatory-but Sidd was little, leashed, at least 3/4 blind and dumb-about as predatory as the average couch cushion.  And he was at least 6 meters from the fence, as I didn't trust him not to get underfoot since he knew nothing about horses and probably couldn't really see them anyway.

Well, there's your problem. She knew what to expect from dogs, but how could she know what an animate dustmop might do, if she's never met one before? Once cleaning supplies start moving around on their own, it could be like the Sorcerer's Apprentice all over again!

Larrabee

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2011, 03:16:47 AM »
Ok, then as this is supposed to be an etiquette 'guide' isn't it better to say

"Do not let your dogs loose around livestock unless they are exceptionally well trained and you are 100% sure they won't chase or distress them."

not

"If you do this, I'll laugh at you"

 :-\

Lynnv

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2011, 08:44:27 AM »
Of course, I will also admit to (despite the above about horses going through fences) laughing like a complete loon when my little Peke mix scared my mom's horse.  I thought my mom was going to fall over laughing.  The dog was leashed, didn't bark and, based on him having bad eyesight out of the one eye that he did have, probably didn't even really see the horse.  But she took off to the other side of the corral and would not come back over until I took Sidd out of her sight.  It would not have been funny if Sparks got hurt-but she didn't.  She just took off as if Sidd was a 200-pound wolf with horse eating history instead of a 15 pound dust-mop with delusions of Emperor-hood.  And she was, literally, around dogs her entire life-we always had dogs, including little and big ones.  In fact, when she was born (the first horse I ever watched born), there was a little poodle (and a big old barn-cat) in the barn watching with us.

This is, of course, the same horse who was convinced for all of her 30+ years on this planet) that sheep eat big red horses, so we were used to laughing at her fear of non-predatory animals.  Yes-dogs are technically predatory-but Sidd was little, leashed, at least 3/4 blind and dumb-about as predatory as the average couch cushion.  And he was at least 6 meters from the fence, as I didn't trust him not to get underfoot since he knew nothing about horses and probably couldn't really see them anyway.

Well, there's your problem. She knew what to expect from dogs, but how could she know what an animate dustmop might do, if she's never met one before? Once cleaning supplies start moving around on their own, it could be like the Sorcerer's Apprentice all over again!

 ;D

It wasn't her first dust-mop though.  And Honey (my mom's Peke mix for nearly 10 years after we inherited her) was liable to get right in the stall with Sparks.  That mare was very sweet-but her danger perception filter was seriously off kilter.  :>
Lynn

"Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat."  Robert A. Heinlein

Garden Goblin

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2011, 12:22:58 PM »
Ok, then as this is supposed to be an etiquette 'guide' isn't it better to say

"Do not let your dogs loose around livestock unless they are exceptionally well trained and you are 100% sure they won't chase or distress them."

not

"If you do this, I'll laugh at you"

 :-\

The first should go without saying, though I would correct it to - "Do not let your dogs loose around livestock unless they are exceptionally well trained and you are 100% sure they won't chase or distress them AND you have the livestock/property owner's permission."

You seem particularly defensive on this issue. 

For the record, I will also laugh at you if you deliberately jump in the pool with all your clothes on. ignore the warnings about standing underneath the chicken roost, or roll a natural one six times in a row.

And as I pointed out, the laughter is the nice response.  There is a second warning up, one I have unfortunately had to enforce, that states if your dog/cat/aardvark is terrorizing my livestock, I will shoot it.  That sign isn't rude either, even if it isn't particularly nice.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 12:26:28 PM by Garden Goblin »

Larrabee

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2011, 12:32:20 PM »
Ok, then as this is supposed to be an etiquette 'guide' isn't it better to say

"Do not let your dogs loose around livestock unless they are exceptionally well trained and you are 100% sure they won't chase or distress them."

not

"If you do this, I'll laugh at you"

 :-\

The first should go without saying, though I would correct it to - "Do not let your dogs loose around livestock unless they are exceptionally well trained and you are 100% sure they won't chase or distress them AND you have the livestock/property owner's permission."

You seem particularly defensive on this issue. 

For the record, I will also laugh at you if you deliberately jump in the pool with all your clothes on. ignore the warnings about standing underneath the chicken roost, or roll a natural one six times in a row.

And as I pointed out, the laughter is the nice response.  There is a second warning up, one I have unfortunately had to enforce, that states if your dog/cat/aardvark is terrorizing my livestock, I will shoot it.  That sign isn't rude either, even if it isn't particularly nice.

I'm not defensive, not sure what you're implying there, I just feel the tone of your posts isn't in keeping with the aim of this folder at all.

Garden Goblin

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2011, 12:40:47 PM »
I'm not defensive, not sure what you're implying there, I just feel the tone of your posts isn't in keeping with the aim of this folder at all.

I'm not implying anything.

I've done nothing wrong, and done nothing rude, and if we wish to go with 'nice' phrasing, saying 'I reserve the right to laugh' is considerably nicer than the full on truth of, 'I reserve the right to shoot the dog and charge you for any damage done if he starts chasing my birds'.  I am informing someone of the consequences of their actions in the hopes that they will rethink their actions because obviously, common sense and basic polite decency are already beyond their grasp for them to be considering engaging in this action in the first place.  Also recall the safety trumps etiquette clause and remember that the safety, and indeed, LIVES, of my animals are at stake here.

Remember, in this situation, someone has DELIBERATELY loosed their dog and encouraged it to do actual harm to my animals.  That isn't misfortune, that is deliberate action in which karma becomes involved.  We have threads here full of people being amused at similar, such as the Special Snowflakes (in which I included a strong example of why letting your dog loose on other people's livestock ends in tragedy), Professional Darwinism, etc... threads, but you aren't in those threads demanding people correct their 'tone', so I'm curious as to why you have chosen to target my remarks in this thread? 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 12:47:30 PM by Garden Goblin »

Larrabee

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2011, 12:52:02 PM »
I think the right of a livestock owner to shoot dogs that are worrying their animals is a legal issue rather than an etiquette one.

Daffodil

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2011, 12:53:36 PM »
How about "Please obey leash laws at - especially if your dog has a habit of running *at*(not after - at) cars" Yes, I get that in our neighbourhood the culture is that it's okay to let your dog run wild (we don't allow ours to for the reasons that he isn't street smart, neighbours see him and become scared because of his size, and it's just not worth the risk as we had a dog poisoned many years ago)

Just last summer, my neighbour's golden lab ran into the side of my vehicle as I was driving. The dog wasn't hurt, but he got quite a scare. There's a German shepherd on the other side of the road who does the *exact* same thing. 

And if your dog's running in to the side of my vehicle causes damage to it, I *will* expect you to pay for repairs. Rude ? Not at all - but it is rude of a dog owner to let their pet roam free, knowing he's a hazard to drivers.



Garden Goblin

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Re: Pet Etiquette
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2011, 02:03:24 PM »
And if your dog's running in to the side of my vehicle causes damage to it, I *will* expect you to pay for repairs. Rude ? Not at all - but it is rude of a dog owner to let their pet roam free, knowing he's a hazard to drivers.

There are always those folks who think their pwecious little poopsie's 'happiness' trumps everything, regardless of what common sense, neighborhood culture, and the law have to say on the issue.  It's basic special snowflake-ism combined with a hefty dose of old fashioned stupidity.  You can scream all you want that cars should watch out for dogs, but the simple truth of the matter is dog meets car = dog loses, whether the dog had a 'right' to be there or not, so keep the dog under control.

My old mutt sleeps in the sun in the driveway most of the time.  It's my private property, but if I know the neighbors are having their biannually family gathering, I put the dog up because there is always that one idiot cousin (you'd think after ending up in the ditch the year I only plowed half my drive would have taught him something) who misses the neighbor's drive and turns around in mine without paying a dang bit of attention. 

A friend of mine's 'neighbors' are opposing his chicken ownership because a Grade AAA Special Snowflake was letting his dogs run loose all over the place.  After the third time they came in to my friend's yard growling and attacking the chickens, my friend shot the dogs.  And of course, how DARE he shoot the dogs because, 'it's just a couple chickens, I can't believe he killed my pets over a couple chickens'.  Mix this outrage with the group of folks who simply can't conceive of why someone would want to raise chickens and the folks who think anyone raising livestock is some sort of monster, and my friend is probably going to end up losing his beloved birds all because of some entitled jerk who lets his dogs run loose.  Apparently, yard = off-leash dog park no matter who the yard belongs too.
 
I ran into the same issue once with a dog that was regularly going into people's yards to kill cats.  One day the dog just vanished (probably in the same way Hoffa did) and the owner was throwing a fit because he couldn't believe someone would hurt his 'purebred' dog over a bunch of 'mangy cats'.  Because his 'loved pet' was obviously more important than the loved pets of everyone else in the world.

Keep your pets up, and nobody will have a problem.  And yet, that simple concept eludes so many.  I swear, people should have to pass a basic sense test to own a pet.  And when their stupidity gets their pet hurt, injured, or mocked, it's never the fault of the irresponsible owner, no sirree, it's the everyone else's fault for being mean or rude or just hating Fluffykins and Lil' Snookums.