Author Topic: Workplace etiquette  (Read 36537 times)

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ch1pch0p

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2009, 04:55:38 PM »
I read the entire thread, including post 16.  You haven't altered the OP to reflect that change, so I was uncertain if you were going to make a change.  Please excuse me.

If I understand the book project correctly, Ehelldame simply wants discussion on these topics to see what the general consensus is. The first post is not necessarily what will be in the book. So anyone is free to disagree with PPs or offer their own ideas. No one person's post is "the list."

Nurvingiel

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2009, 05:49:19 PM »
She also said that this forum will not result in a printed book.  While it is handy to have the first post with a list of things to do/not to do, I got the impression that the entire thread on the subject is meant as a guide.

:)
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Lisbeth

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2009, 06:29:16 PM »
The OP has been changed.
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ch1pch0p

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2009, 09:30:08 PM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."

Lisbeth

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2009, 10:17:00 PM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."

And I disagree with that, because there are many workplaces in which it is necessary to avoid these things and dress conservatively.  My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.
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Kaylee

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2009, 10:42:01 PM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."

And I disagree with that, because there are many workplaces in which it is necessary to avoid these things and dress conservatively.  My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.

No, the rules of the workplace include the consequence that you could lose your job if you do not abide by an explicit dress code.  It has nothing to do with manners, or the way in which you seem to want to insist on phrasing that part of your post.  Anyone who tried firing someone on the grounds of "implicit" rules of the workplace would not only be on the wrong side of etiquette but the wrong side of the law.

I get that you don't care for tattoos or piercings.  That has nothing to do, however, with business etiquette.  And the way you have that particular item phrase is still really awfully off-putting and judgmental.


Lisbeth

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2009, 10:45:20 PM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."

And I disagree with that, because there are many workplaces in which it is necessary to avoid these things and dress conservatively.  My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.

No, the rules of the workplace include the consequence that you could lose your job if you do not abide by an explicit dress code.  It has nothing to do with manners, or the way in which you seem to want to insist on phrasing that part of your post.  Anyone who tried firing someone on the grounds of "implicit" rules of the workplace would not only be on the wrong side of etiquette but the wrong side of the law.

I get that you don't care for tattoos or piercings.  That has nothing to do, however, with business etiquette.  And the way you have that particular item phrase is still really awfully off-putting and judgmental.



No one's talking about firing anyone for disobedience of implicit rules.  The etiquette issue is that if the workplace has a dress code that precludes tattoos, piercings, or requires them, or whatever, it should be followed and not blatantly flouted.  To do so would be disrespectful of the other employees and the management.
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RooRoo

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2009, 10:50:53 PM »
Quote
there are many workplaces in which it is necessary to avoid these things and dress conservatively.  My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.

And I agree. In businesses that serve all kinds of people, the receptionist and other customer contact persons need to be someone that won't scare off people or gross them out. I think it will be quite a while before piercings and tattoos are perceived to be as normal as apple pie.

I'm not saying that it is just fine to reject someone with piercings and/or tattoos. I am saying that it is bad business to risk losing customers over that.

And don't expect me to hire that guy who is trying to look like a cat. I don't want to have to look at him. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002441727_catman16.html
"Someday we must write a book of Etiquette for sensible people," said Mrs. Morland, "though apart from a few rules it really boils down to an educated mind and a kind heart." ~ Angela Thirkell, Never Too Late

Kaylee

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2009, 11:09:21 PM »
No one's talking about firing anyone for disobedience of implicit rules. 

Actually, it seems that you are:

My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.

Boldface mine, but it seems pretty clear to me.

The etiquette issue is that if the workplace has a dress code that precludes tattoos, piercings, or requires them, or whatever, it should be followed and not blatantly flouted.  To do so would be disrespectful of the other employees and the management.

No one's arguing about flouting explicit rules.  We're saying that it really doesn't seem necessary to specify these particular things that you happen to object to as 'general' business etiquette rules, when many of us work in places that would not object to them at all.

Nurvingiel

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2009, 03:17:06 AM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."
I pod this all over the place. Not all offices or workplaces follow conservative dress code. Like PP has said, this is not necessarily an etiquette violation.

I think the rule would be less contentious if it was phrased like this:
Quote
1.  Dress appropriately for the job, whether that's a business suit, uniform, or office casual.  Take cues from your superiors, co-workers, and any company regulations as to what you should and should not wear to workthe appropriateness of visible tattoos and body piercings other than earlobes.  When in doubt, dress more conservatively/mainstream.
(Blue added)
I don't have an issue with the dressing conservatively, because it says "when in doubt". This is a good suggestion for when one does not know the dress code. The comment about tattoos and piercings isn't needed because this will be in the dress code (either observed or written).
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penelope2017

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2009, 08:04:08 AM »
And I still disagree with it. I don't think anything needs to be said about tattoos, piercings, or dressing "conservatively."

And I disagree with that, because there are many workplaces in which it is necessary to avoid these things and dress conservatively.  My point is, if the workplace has a dress code, explicit or implicit, the etiquette of that workplace is that you follow it on pain of consequences that could include losing your job.

No, the rules of the workplace include the consequence that you could lose your job if you do not abide by an explicit dress code.  It has nothing to do with manners, or the way in which you seem to want to insist on phrasing that part of your post.  Anyone who tried firing someone on the grounds of "implicit" rules of the workplace would not only be on the wrong side of etiquette but the wrong side of the law.

I get that you don't care for tattoos or piercings.  That has nothing to do, however, with business etiquette.  And the way you have that particular item phrase is still really awfully off-putting and judgmental.



No one's talking about firing anyone for disobedience of implicit rules.  The etiquette issue is that if the workplace has a dress code that precludes tattoos, piercings, or requires them, or whatever, it should be followed and not blatantly flouted.  To do so would be disrespectful of the other employees and the management.

Again, I think we're making assumptions about everyone's workplace. That's why I said earlier just make it follow your specific workplace's dress code and it seems others agree. If you wanted to list possible dress code violations, you could have a much longer list than just piercings and tattoos and I think people are wondering why just those are singled out.

I don't think any particular personal workplace objections should be included. As I said before, neither tattoos nor piercings are outlawed at my job. These etiquette rules should be generic enough for anyone of any workplace to read them and relate to them. Someone might read that first post and write off the rest of the thread as nonapplicable.

Nannerdoman

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2009, 12:02:51 PM »
Seems to me that the "dressing for etiquette" issue has been thoroughly dealt with now.  Just my opinion.
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Ms_Cellany

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2009, 12:45:09 PM »
Seems to me that the "dressing for etiquette" issue has been thoroughly dealt with now.  Just my opinion.

Ditto. It is impossible to describe a single clothing style that applies to all workplaces. A law firm's senior partner's executive assistant is in a different environment than a night-club bartender.

May I suggest instead: "Dress according to the explicit dress code of your workplace, and if there is none, use common sense in following the prevailing standards of that profession. Should you rebel against those standards, do not make others uncomfortable in your rebellion, and do not be surprised should disciplinary actions result."

I consider it disingenuous when people with tattoos, piercings, etc., act surprised that some people in some workplaces might disapprove of, or even be physically revolted by, body modifications. And I speak as one with multiple tattoos and piercings, which I keep covered at work. (I haven't seen that attitude here, but I've come across it IRL.)

OTOH, it can be great fun to dress ultra-conservatively in a let-it-all-hang-out milieu. I loved wearing my work suit to a meeting of what can be safely described as a group with nontraditional interests. And I was the only person at a Dead Can Dance concert wearing a fuzzy pink cowl-neck angora sweater. I told my date I was the only true rebel there...
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Brentwood

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2009, 01:05:45 PM »

May I suggest instead: "Dress according to the explicit dress code of your workplace, and if there is none, use common sense in following the prevailing standards of that profession. Should you rebel against those standards, do not make others uncomfortable in your rebellion, and do not be surprised should disciplinary actions result."


Several people have suggested several times that the guideline be simply, "Follow the dress code of your workplace." The objection is to singling out tattoos and piercings, because there are any number of other items that could be considered dress code violations at various workplaces.

Visible tattoos and piercings are not inherently impolite, so it is unnecessary to single them out in this particular guideline.

Ms_Cellany

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Re: Workplace etiquette
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2009, 01:15:44 PM »
Visible tattoos and piercings are not inherently impolite, so it is unnecessary to single them out in this particular guideline.

I tried not to, and you're right, I should have given a variety of examples. Very short skirts, too-tight britches, statements on T-shirts, overly casual outfits, and so on, can also bother others if they're not the norm for that workplace. I tried to shape my phrasing to encompass the concept, not specific possible situations:

"Dress according to the explicit dress code of your workplace, and if there is none, use common sense in following the prevailing standards of that profession. Should you rebel against those standards, do not make others uncomfortable in your rebellion, and do not be surprised should disciplinary actions result."

Outside of the actual suggested guideline, I kept with tattoos/piercings because that's where the conversation was (and, admittedly, to let out a pet peeve), but a selection of examples would have been better. Apologies.
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