Car Dealership Etiquette

[thebadchemist]

The same thing may be coming into play when house hunting - the agents are "guessing" your income level and probable price range based on what you are wearing instead of what figure you may be giving them.

This is probably the case.  As much as we shouldnt judge people on their appearances, the truth is that, we do, albeit everyone to a different extent.  The (not-so-off-base--if-stereotypical) assumption is that those that dress nicer have more disposable income.  While this does not excuse rude behavior, it is a reasonable assumption (even if you are just running out the door for XXX/dressed casually today/etc) to make. 

Indeed, I understand that we all do and people in the sales industries definitely rely on appearance/impressions a lot more than other jobs. What I really dislike are the salespeople who are obvious about it. I mean, really, how do you know unless you talk to them? BF and I usually see open houses when we're driving around running errands. We're not dressed like slobs, but we are usually in clean jeans and a t-shirt or polo (him) and basic top (me). We'll get totally ignored by some realtors, but others will grin and totally chat with us. The ones who spent a moment greeting and talking to each person who walked in the door, regardless of appearance, were the ones that we asked for contact information for future house-hunting. We refuse to work with and eventually pay commission to someone who is so judgmental that they would refuse to talk to us based on complete surface appearance (the snooty ones will only greet certain people). Throw on a blazer and some jewelry and they'll suddenly be your best friend. The really obvious, fake people just disgust me.

The other hilarious thing is when they actually do talk to you, even the nicest ones, they always ask what we do. This has happened a few times to us.

BF: I work for the transit system
Realtor (neutral smile): Oh, that's nice. And what do you [me] do?
Me: I work for pharmaceutical company.
Realtor (eyes light up, big smile): OH, REALLY?!

Science does not equal money! BF and I almost laugh at that point because A) We make the same amount of money and B) BF is the one with a down payment. Besides, he has way better benefits, life insurance, and a pension! I say he wins with the government job. 

We all make judgments, of course, it's just that the really obvious ones range from insulting to hilarious.

Edited, as always, for grammar.

[Corrina]

What a rude person to not give the price, like if they know what you do for a living or where you live, what kind of price they can get out of you.

We're house hunting and I feel, because of my job and the assumptions that are mostly made about that income where we live, that we are getting jumped on by realty agents for the more expensive houses. I really wanted to buy something simple, not overpriced with 100 acres of land or something. Actually, I just made an offer on a house today that we like.

I wish that most salespeople would go into a sale without judgement based upon jobs. They really have no idea how much money people have saved.

[madmusician]

Gaaaa. I just find it absurd and irritating that he refused to give me the dang price. Sometimes I wonder what goes through these people's heads. BTW, the link someone posted about the guy who went undercover as a dealership salesman...thanks, that was quite informative!

[goblue2539]

This thread has been very helpful.

I'm European, always lived in the middle of a metropolitan area without the need for a car so I never had to go through the hassles of purchasing one. But in a few months I'll be relocating to the US and to suburbia to boot, so one of my first purchases will have to be a car. All the helpful hints and horror stories of car salesmen will definitely make me alert when negotiating the price etc.

Thanks!

If you're moving where I think you're moving, try your best to buy from an American Brand.  Nothing like driving outside Detroit in one of those "rice burners".  And I say that with all the love I had for my Nissan for 3 years. 

[Pixie]

Ah car shopping, my husband loves the game. 

 First he goes online and checks out all the different models we might be interested in.

 Then we go to several car lots to check out the vehicles.   Keep in mind, Hubby is 6'5" and I am 5'3"  so we need something with enough leg-room for him, but which can be adjusted for me.  So we go see what's out there.   He always has to actually sit in the vehicle and get a "feel" for it. 

The next step is back online, when he has narrowed his search to two or 3 different models.  He gets as much info as he can, checks out what really is a fair price, and also checks out comments made by those who already own that particular model vehicle (if possible).

Then and only then, do we begin the actual shopping phase which may take as long as 3 months.  We have never really NEEDED to buy a vehicle, and Hubby loves to torture salespeople (by asking questions we already know the answers to)  and get the best possible price. He also pays close attention to how I am treated, in case he is overseas and I need to take the vehicle in for work to be done.   

When we bought MY truck, the manager all but begged us to finally buy it.  Okay, he did beg, and Hubby got exactly what he wanted.   The car was much easier, as it was just a way for Hubby to get back and forth to work.   Hubby is much fussier about what I drive than he is about what he drives.   

Please note, If at any time during the process, Hubby thinks he is, or I am, being disrespected, we walk out.  It is not rude to expect to be treated as a paying customer when you are one. 

[lmyrs]

I went to buy my first new car 2 years ago. DH (then boyfriend) came with me. I knew what I wanted - a Honda Civic. It was December 2004 so the 2005 model was out. We walked into the dealership and right away a salesman approached us and asked what we were looking for. I said, "Do you have an 2004 Civics?" He scoffed! (I'm not sure if that's the proper word, but he made a rude noise.) Then, extremely condescendingly, "We've been out of 04s for months." Me: "Fine, let's look at the 05s." We sat down so he could show us the options. He wouldn't talk to me. He kept addressing DH. DH said, "This is her car. Sell it to her." He continued to only address DH. I was asking all the questions and DH was getting all the answers. I was sooo mad by this point. But, we took a test drive with him. We came back and he still only spoke to DH. DH told him again that he had to address me, not him. Salesman did not get it.

AND, there was a sale on. But, there weren't any Civics in stock for sale. And he said the Civics weren't coming in until February. Fine I could wait. But the sale was over at the end of December. I explicitly said, "So, I'm here to buy now, and I would buy now, but you can't provide the product until the sale is over. Yet, I will be ineligible for sale price because I'm not buying until the sale is over?" Yep. That's just the way it is. That's when I told him that I would think about it.

We went to Saturn and left with a 2005 Saturn Ion. Which I LOVE. And bought from a salesman who sold ME the car, not DH.

[MadMadge43]

My 73 year old mother used to be a receptionist at a car dealership back in the 50's. She was there the day they installed microphones in the offices and waiting rooms, so they could hear what you talked about when they were out of the office.

To this day she can get the all time best price for a car of anyone, and the poor salesman never saw it coming. (This was of course until I introduced her to Lexus and they don't negotiate, almost took all of the fun out of it for her, but the roses and the service keep her going back).

Things you should know:

1. The inventory slip they show you, that says how much they paid for the invdividual car, is actually discounted by about 10 to 15% for a bulk purchase rate. So if you get the price on the inventory list, then they are still making a decent profit (which is fair, no one works for free).

2. They keep you waiting and keep going to talk to their manager on the principal of "vested interest", the more time you spend at a dealer the more you think you should accomplish something, and this is why it always takes too long. Also, it's less time you can spend looking at another dealer.

3. When they are "looking up your credit" that takes about 2 minutes, (there's this thing called the internet, it has all of your scores and they're already calculated, waiting to be accessed) the other 20 minutes they are shooting the s#$t with another sales person and listening in on your conversations. (See #2)

4. The dealership teaches them all of this and many more underhanded tricks

5. They most definitely make more money if you finance. In fact cash sales these days are considered horrible. Why only make $3,000 profit, when you can make another $5,000 in interest?

6. You should never tell them your budget, unless you've done your homework and know exactly what a car should go for.

Good luck shopping!

[behindbj]

The same thing may be coming into play when house hunting - the agents are "guessing" your income level and probable price range based on what you are wearing instead of what figure you may be giving them.

This is probably the case.  As much as we shouldnt judge people on their appearances, the truth is that, we do, albeit everyone to a different extent.  The (not-so-off-base--if-stereotypical) assumption is that those that dress nicer have more disposable income.  While this does not excuse rude behavior, it is a reasonable assumption (even if you are just running out the door for XXX/dressed casually today/etc) to make. 

Indeed, I understand that we all do and people in the sales industries definitely rely on appearance/impressions a lot more than other jobs. What I really dislike are the salespeople who are obvious about it.

A friend of mine, whose income depends heavily on commissions, sells upscale items.  He told me that he has learned over the years that (generally speaking) the ones that come in dressed to the nines in order to have everyone see that they have money are the easiest to upsell and add-sell.  Why? 

They are either:  a.  People with money who like to have everyone know they have money and would therefore be susceptible to being sold things that scream money (not need, desire or enjoyment, or function); or b.  People with not that much money but want people to think they have it, so selling them things that "only rich people can have" makes them want it.

The hardest to upsell and add-sell?  The wealthy who dress like normal people.  They're rich, they know they're rich, and they really don't care if everyone else knows they're rich.  They buy the stuff not to be seen by other people, but to be used and enjoyed either for themselves or for the person to whom it is gifted.

Oddly enough, he says that the "normally" dressed ones are usually wealthier that the "dressed to the nines" - and nicer.

behindbj

[ZipTheWonder]

I actually had a friend that was able to pay for her car in full, in cash, on the spot (ok, so she actually paid with a check).  She negotiated a price with the dealer based on her paying in full, and then she financed the car.  Or maybe it was the other way around... Either way, she negotiated a lower price based on her form of payment, then switched to the other, and paid in full in the first month of owning it...

The last car I bought, I went without my husband.  (He hates it even more than i do!)  I researched the car, then I test-drove it.  After the test-drive, I told the dealer "I have the checkbook in my purse.  I am prepared to pay X for the car.  I am not prepared to negotiate.  Would you like to sell the car for X?"  He said "Well...let me see."  I said "Thank you for your time.  As I said, I am not prepared to negotiate."  I got up to leave, and he said "I think X will be fine."  If, any time, it had turned into a negotiation after I had made it clear I was not willing....I would have left.  He knew I wasn't kidding.  It took me about an hour to buy the car.

My husband has a whole 'nother tactic.  He thinks the price on the car is worth the price of not negotiating.  He'll pay whatever it costs not to have to deal with them.  He's a salesman's dream.(<--- Reason I didn't take him!!!)

[ZipTheWonder]

I don't think a lot of these sales people are guessing the customer's income or trying to do some kind of rational analysis about what they might be.

I think they want to make a sale, the bigger the better.  Unsavory financial types can get too much credit for even the worst risks, so they know that they can finance whoever walks in the door in whatever car they want (to a very great extent.)  So, what they are sizing up is how much they can sell, not how much you can buy.

Seriously, I wish Amazon sold cars.  I love the great service you get with the nameless, faceless, cold-hearted internet.

[Xanthia, Maker of fine Tin-foil hats since 2007]

Please remember this car buying advice from Consumer Reports:

Never discuss how you intend to pay for the vehicle, or how much you are willing to pay, UNTIL you've agreed on a purchase price.    

Really? I've never heard that... May I ask why they suggest that?

well, first you do the whole bargaining thing.  this is the hubster's part of the deal, as he attended the Carnegie sales school for military recruiting duty, and he knows (and uses) all of their tricks.  this bores me to tears, so i spend that time reading the book that i always have at hand.  the saleman negotiating the deal assumes, because most people do, that you will be financing through the dealership, and for approximately 5 years.  that's money in the company's, and ultimately in the dealership's, pocket.

at the end of the wheeling and dealing, when we are asked how long we wish to finance our vehicle, that's when i put down my book, and pull the check from our credit union from my purse for our pre-approved loan at a much lower interest rate than would be offered through the car dealership and their wholely owned finance company.

so if we had told the salesman how we intended to pay for our truck, the price would probably have been higher, as they would have known that the company would not be receiving any benefit through financing.

My parents do this when they buy a car.  When they bought their last car, after the price was settled and he started to talk to them about financing, and my Papa told  him it owuld be cash, the salesperson actually said something like "You should have told me you were paying cash, if I had known that, I would not have given you such a good deal."

See, he gets money for financing the loans as well as selling the cars.

[Xanthia, Maker of fine Tin-foil hats since 2007]

I'm European, always lived in the middle of a metropolitan area without the need for a car so I never had to go through the hassles of purchasing one. But in a few months I'll be relocating to the US and to suburbia to boot, so one of my first purchases will have to be a car. All the helpful hints and horror stories of car salesmen will definitely make me alert when negotiating the price etc.

There is one car manufacturer that has a stated price on every vehicle.  No "haggling" involved in that part of the transaction............if you are trading in another vehicle, there may be some room to negotiate..........but DeHubby is the one who does the best at that.  I just want to get the item (car, dress, meal, whatever); get out of the store, dealer showroom, or restaurant; and get on with the rest of my life.........

The name is Saturn - there are lots of locations around the USA.  The vehicles seem to be very well made.  I don't work for them, but I am driving a Saturn mini-van that we bought this summer just before vacationing in Florida (driving a thousand miles or so there, several hundred miles around the state, and another thousand miles home).  It is the second Saturn that we have owned.  We were very happy with the first one as well.

As the sticker on the vehicles says at the dealer "your mileage may vary".

Jellybean and I both own pre-owned Saturns, and these are our 4th saturns.  I love my cars, and when I got mine it had 4,500 miles on it and I got a great price, and jellybeans had less than 20,000.  now 2 years later I just his 10,000 miles on my car and figures at this rate I can drive it for 10 more years easy!

They are pretty set in their prices, but as a hint if you are going for pre-owned from a saturn dealership, ask to see thier "aged" stock, those are the cars that have been sitting on the lot for a while.  My car was aged (because it is a stick shift, all I have ever drive are stick shift) so they reduced the cost of my car by a thousand bucks because in 2 days it was going to have to be shipped elsewhere or something.

[Chocolate Cake]

I haven't read all the replies, but I am not surprised at the salesman's behavior (infuriated on your behalf, but not surprised).  I understand that they don't want to waste their time on looky-loos or people without means to buy and I understand that they don't care so much for cash buyers because it means they won't make as much as if the buyer needed financing.  Still.......what does it cost them (by any means of measure) to just answer your questions about price?  

When my husband and I last purchased our vehicle, we were also cash buyers.  We got this attitude from several different dealers too.  One of them wouldn't discuss price when we were there either because we wouldn't give them the info they needed to run a credit check.  When we found another vehicle elsewhere and wanted to compare the two price-wise before buying, they still wouldn't discuss the price when we called (stating that we had to come in to the office).  Since they had refused to tell us the price when we were there, we told them we weren't playing their game anymore and to stick it. We bought the vehicle from the dealer that treated us better.   About a week later, the salesperson from the first place called and wanted to know if she could still help us.  We bluntly told her that her chance had come and gone and that we'd already purchased a vehicle elsewhere.

I hope when you and your BF do buy your vehicle, you'll take a picture of it with the two of you standing by it and send it to the dealership's general manager with a letter of complaint about how the salesperson treated you and, because of it, lost the sale.

[Chocolate Cake]

Behindbj --

Oddly enough, he says that the "normally" dressed ones are usually wealthier that the "dressed to the nines" - and nicer.

That's exactly what the author of the book The Millionaire Next Door says as well.  Your friend is absolutely right. 

[CreteGirl]

"The name is Saturn - there are lots of locations around the USA.  The vehicles seem to be very well made."

As I was reading all of these posts, I could not wait to waive my hand wildly in the air and say, "I know the answer to all of this!!"

Saturns are great!  I just bought my fifth new Saturn.  There is no haggling, and the service is wonderful.  There are no pressure tactics at all, it is just like going into any retail store and making a purchase.  My last Saturn had 95,000 miles when I traded it in, and never had any major repairs.  I also got a good trade in value, even with the high mileage.

One time when my son was little and in a stroller, I went to a different car dealership looking to purchase a new vehicle.  A saleswoman came up to me and asked if I was all by myself.  I said no, as I had my son right there in the stroller with me, and I count him as a person (most days--he's a teenager now). 

She then proceeded to say, in a babyish singsong tone of voice, "oh, that's good.  I never saw a woman shop for a car all by herself!".  I was speechless that this came from a woman, and quickly left.  I never bought a car from anywhere but Saturn after that.