Author Topic: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???  (Read 1637218 times)

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Elfmama

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17925 on: December 10, 2013, 02:05:34 PM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."
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Lynn2000

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17926 on: December 10, 2013, 02:09:05 PM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."

LOL! True, I have seen various definitions given for the same name in different places, and even complaints that some languages they allegedly derive from are in some sense made up. Something about how "Old Teutonic" just meant "German," but in certain times and places people really didn't want to acknowledge the vast number of popular names that were German, so they made up this term that sounded more like they came from Beowulf's companions or something. So at least from the US research perspective, if you have a meaning that is deeply important to you, you need to check around to make sure it's firmly attached to that name.
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Elfmama

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17927 on: December 10, 2013, 02:19:13 PM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."

LOL! True, I have seen various definitions given for the same name in different places, and even complaints that some languages they allegedly derive from are in some sense made up. Something about how "Old Teutonic" just meant "German," but in certain times and places people really didn't want to acknowledge the vast number of popular names that were German, so they made up this term that sounded more like they came from Beowulf's companions or something. So at least from the US research perspective, if you have a meaning that is deeply important to you, you need to check around to make sure it's firmly attached to that name.
Yep.  Any name source that uses "Teutonic" or "Celtic" is almost certain to make other stuff up as well. 
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Ereine

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17928 on: December 10, 2013, 02:55:24 PM »
It doesn't talk about perceptions but if you're interested in name statistics, this one is in English and has all the first names that are in the population register (pretty much everyone born since the beginning of 20th century, if I remember correctly). There are lists of the most popular names and you can search for names (which is less useful, if you don't know Finnish names already but here are the statistics for Aarre for example). I really like that site, I find it interesting to see the naming trends, though as they also include middle names it doesn't really show what first names are popular. At the moment old-fashioned names are in, but not really romantic, old-fashioned names but the sort of short practical names that were popular in maybe 1920s (which means Urho, "brave", Jalo, "noble", Helmi, "pearl", Onni, "happiness" and names that don't mean anything in particular like Unto, Vilho, Eino). Nature names have been popular too, like super trendy Lumi (snow), Aamu (morning), Lilja (lily), Valo (light) and I've met one Tuisku (snow storm).

Awesome! Thank you, that's really cool. Another question, for Ereine but also anyone--so if you say the name Aamu means "morning," does that mean, it's the Finnish way to say "morning," like "Nice morning, isn't it?" would contain the word "aamu"? Or do you mean that if you looked the name Aamu up in a name book, it would tell you it derives from an Old Finnish word meaning "morning"?

It's actually the other way around, Aamu is the modern word for morning and for a greeting you would say "hyvää huomenta" where huomen is an old-fashioned word for morning. I think that names with literal meanings are pretty common in Finland, partly I believe because of a nationalistic (in the sense of building a nation) movement in the late 19th century when Finland was a very oppressed part of Russia. Before that it was a part of Sweden for centuries and Finnish language for mostly for servants and crafts people. So people became interested in building a Finnish national identity and part of it was inventing Finnish names (before that I think that the names tended to be Finnish versions of international biblical or other religious names, like my name Katri which shares root with Katherine and its variants). Some of them where pagan names (or meant to sound like them) and some were just Finnish words which symbolized the sort of things they found important (like Taisto, fight/war, Tarmo, vigor) and I think that nature names were popular because nature was seen as a large part of our identity. Some of the names are words that are used in everyday language (like Tuuli, wind, Meri, sea, Satu, fairytale) and some are more old-fashioned or poetic (like Suvi, summer, when kesä is the modern word or Lempi, love and rakkaus is the modern word) but I think that they tend to be mostly words whose meanings people would understand and not derived from some ancient word. 

ladyknight1

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17929 on: December 10, 2013, 03:31:36 PM »
Butler and Landers for boys names. Twins in their late teens.

Lynn2000

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17930 on: December 10, 2013, 03:32:48 PM »
Thanks, Ereine! That's so neat.
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iridaceae

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17931 on: December 11, 2013, 12:52:08 AM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."

You mean Madison doesn't mean daughter of Maud? *puts hand to forehead,  faints*

It's a bit out of date but Leslie Dunkling's The New American Baby Name book,  which focusses on the UK,  talks about popularity and trends.

starry diadem

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17932 on: December 11, 2013, 02:28:21 AM »


It's a bit out of date but Leslie Dunkling's The New American Baby Name book,  which focusses on the UK,  talks about popularity and trends.

Perhaps she needs to revist her book title to avoid her readers having the moment of confusion I just experenced!
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Nikko-chan

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17933 on: December 11, 2013, 02:58:55 AM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."


Just a small note: If i ever have a child, I am coming to you guys and asking you what the names I have chosen REALLY mean!

iridaceae

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17934 on: December 11, 2013, 03:52:31 AM »


It's a bit out of date but Leslie Dunkling's The New American Baby Name book,  which focusses on the UK,  talks about popularity and trends.

Perhaps she needs to revist her book title to avoid her readers having the moment of confusion I just experenced!
Leslie is a man. So,  Mr Dunkling.

Elfmama

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17935 on: December 11, 2013, 11:23:21 AM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."


Just a small note: If i ever have a child, I am coming to you guys and asking you what the names I have chosen REALLY mean!
So you don't want to name your daughter "Knarrabringa" even though you love the sound of it? (Old Norse, "merchant-ship boobs" i.e. very generously endowed)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I don't go crazy.  I AM crazy.  I sometimes go normal. 
Please make a note of this for future reference.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

lady_disdain

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17936 on: December 11, 2013, 01:51:49 PM »
You have to remember, when reading baby name books or websites, that a lot of names have been sanitized and/or given a completely fictitious meaning.  "Kennedy" for instance, does not mean "armored head." It means "ugly head."  "Hollister" does not mean "from the holly wood"; it means "brothel keeper."


Just a small note: If i ever have a child, I am coming to you guys and asking you what the names I have chosen REALLY mean!
So you don't want to name your daughter "Knarrabringa" even though you love the sound of it? (Old Norse, "merchant-ship boobs" i.e. very generously endowed)

I love that!

jalutaja

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17937 on: December 11, 2013, 02:00:30 PM »
My point is that I'm curious about how it is in other cultures--if names are mostly non-obvious in meaning or literal, how strongly the meaning factors into the choice, etc..

What I find is hard to figure out why in English Dawn is a male name, but in my language the word meaning Dawn is a male name and evening low is the female name (there is even a legend about star-crossed lovers with these names.

Betelnut

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17938 on: December 11, 2013, 02:10:12 PM »
My point is that I'm curious about how it is in other cultures--if names are mostly non-obvious in meaning or literal, how strongly the meaning factors into the choice, etc..

What I find is hard to figure out why in English Dawn is a male name, but in my language the word meaning Dawn is a male name and evening low is the female name (there is even a legend about star-crossed lovers with these names.

Dawn is a girl's name in English.  Don is a boy's name.
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lady_disdain

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Re: Baby Names - You're kidding Right???
« Reply #17939 on: December 11, 2013, 02:11:12 PM »
My point is that I'm curious about how it is in other cultures--if names are mostly non-obvious in meaning or literal, how strongly the meaning factors into the choice, etc..

What I find is hard to figure out why in English Dawn is a male name, but in my language the word meaning Dawn is a male name and evening low is the female name (there is even a legend about star-crossed lovers with these names.

I think Levi-Strauss talks about this in one of his books. What gender things are can vary widely from culture to culture. For example, in German, sun is feminine and moon is masculine. I find this fascinating as all the cultures I am familiar with associate the moon quite strongly with the feminine. Another German example: maiden is neuter while woman is (obviously) feminine.