Please give me your opinion - was I rude?

[mimi_cat]

I'm looking for some honest opinions.  I'm going to copy and paste the (re-formatted for easy reading) email chain. 

Background:  My cousin and I had made plans to do dinner before Christmas, on the 21st.  We agreed to a date and place, but not a specific time.  I assumed 6:30 or so, which is the time we've met for dinner before.  (We've only lived in the same town for less than a year, so there isn't much history in terms of "how we've always done things".)  Another important note is that I had invited her on 12/03 to attend a basketball game with myself and DBF.  She cancelled two days beforehand, because she found out friends were coming into town and she wanted to see them.  These were tickets he got from work, and he got an extra one for her, but it was too late to turn it in for someone else to use, and there was no one else we could ask.  Technically she dumped us for a "better offer", but I understood. 

This email has taken place over the last day.
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Me: "What time are we meeting on Thursday?  I’m doing HH with my co-workers @ NearbyBar at 5:30.  Do you want to meet me there and then we can go on to dinner?   Thursday was the only evening everyone was available. "

Cousin: "I thought we could meet about 6 or so.  I would rather not go to NearbyBar… "

Me: "Can we make it 6:30?  That will give me time for a quick drink w/them and then I can leave there @6:15 and meet you."

Cousin: "I have to leave work @ 5:00, no more overtime allowed…. I really don’t want to hang out for an hour and a half and don’t want to go home either."

Me: "Well, then meet us for happy hour!"

Cousin: "We have had these plans for 4 weeks, time and place agreed to.  Can’t you skip with your co-workers?"

Me: "Place, yes, but you never specified a time.  I assumed 6:30-7 pm, which is a normal after work dinner hour.   I assumed I would have time for a quick drink, because usually happy hour comes before dinner, so I figured I could do both.   Seriously, why can’t you meet us for a drink and then we’ll go on to dinner?"

Cousin: "I just don’t feel like it.  I was looking forward to a nice quiet dinner with you… I don’t want to be gallivanting all over town."

Me: "Well, we can have a nice quiet dinner, at a normal dinner time.  What time were you thinking of eating?  5:30 is way too early.  We aren’t going to be gallivanting all over town.  It’s only Monday, how can you know what you would feel like doing 3 days from now?  You need to get out more, for crying out loud.  It won’t kill you to have a drink with some new people.  Co-workerA and Co-workerB are really nice and you might actually have a good time. "

Cousin: "No, I don’t want to eat at 5:30, but if we met at 6, we didn’t have to sit down right away.  To be honest, I have an interview the next day and I don’t want to be all stuffed up and no feeling well from cigarette smoke in a bar and I don’t want to stay out late, because this one in particular is really important to me and I want to get a good night’s sleep and so I can really put my best face forward."

Me: "OK, where do you see we are staying out late?  I meet you for dinner @ 6:30, dinner is over by 7:30-8:00 at the latest, and you are home by 8:30.  The bar will not be all that smoky at 5:30 on a Thursday.  But fine, I’ll meet you at RestaurantName at 6 pm and just skip the happy hour.  I was just trying to work out both.  Whatever."

Cousin: "Maybe we should just reschedule after the holidays."

Me: "If that’s what you want to do, we can.  I have to be honest and say that I am really disappointed you can’t be flexible here.   Asking to meet you at 6:30 would not be that big of a hardship."

Cousin: "It really has nothing to do with my being flexible.  It’s about manners.  We had plans for a Christmas dinner,  we set almost 4 weeks ago.  You said “it was the only night everyone was available”, well…you really weren’t available.   Was it so difficult for you to say to your co-workers ”I have plans, but let me consult with my cousin and find out the exact time she was thinking about before I commit”.  If you had done that I might have been more amenable to meeting you there.  Instead, you change everything without consulting me.  They were my plans too and a little consideration would have been appreciated. "

Me: "Aha, manners.  Like when you agreed to go to the basketball game and cancelled after Boyfriend already said he’d take the tickets?  I didn’t think anything of that, because I can certainly understand that if friends come into town you want to see them, but if we are playing the whole manners card then perhaps I should have held you to that commitment? 
If I wasn’t meeting my co-workers, I probably wouldn’t have met you until 6:30 anyway, as I don’t usually leave the office until around 6 pm due to traffic.  When I found out where they were going I figured I could meet them for a drink beforehand, since it was in the general direction.  I knew you usually leave at 5 so I thought perhaps you might like to join us and then we could have dinner. 
If I offended you, I do apologize as that wasn’t my intent.  I was merely trying to accommodate all parties, and perhaps get to know my co-workers a little better in the hopes of developing some friendships in a new place.  I thought you might like to join us, as they are fun people and I thought you might like to meet them and vice versa. 
I feel like I’ve tried to be as supportive as I can of you with dealing your parents and brother and your job search, but I can’t ask anything in return?  That’s just wrong."
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Since we didn't agree on a time, was I out of line in letting her know I'd like to do this happy hour?  We didn't set a specific time, and the time that I was proposing was probably when we would meet anyway.  I think her last email - where she said I should have "consulted" her, really made me mad.

Additional background: this cousin and I are the same age.  She recently moved home with her parents for financial reasons, and is always complaining about having to live with them, and dealing with them enabling her alcoholic brother.  She has a fairly decent job now, but claims she can't afford to live on her own.  She's always complaining about being at home with them, so I honestly thought she'd like to get out of the house.  I had no idea about the interview - I knew she had applied for something, but we aren't allowed to ask about her job search. 

I probably didn't handle this the best - but was I being unreasonable in my request?   It's hard to judge sometimes when dealing with her. 

[BurninDinner]

Without knowing y'all and your background and her side, I would have to agree with her.  Email exchanges are difficult because you can't read the other person's body language.

You may want to email her or call her and say something to the effect of, "I am sorry, I was trying to do too much.  You are my priority and I apologize for not making you feel that way.  I'm going to skip happy hour so we can spend time together."

I mean, you work with them, so presumably there will be other happy hours, right?

[Olivia]

I really think that after the first few exchanges when she indicated that she did not want to go to the bar or wait while you went there, you should've dropped it and agreed to go to dinner earlier. 

She was rude to ditch the basketball game when other plans came along, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Shoo]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with your cousin on this one.  She was right when she said that you weren't actually available to make plans with your co-workers - especially since you didn't know exactly what time you'd be meeting up with your cousin.

Also, I think forcing someone else into accepting one's definition of "normal" is always a mistake.  The dinner hour is different for everyone.  I have no problem eating dinner at 5:30 or 6:00 p.m.

Your cousin provided a very good reason for not wanting to extend the evening.  She expressed that she had a job interview the next morning that was very important to her.  That alone should have been reason enough to give up having a quick drink with work buddies (whom I presume you see every day).  Your rigidity in this situation was probably a little bit perplexing to her.

Throwing her past etiquette violation in her face probably wasn't the most tactful thing to do, though I certainly understand how tempting it is to do so.  How did she respond to that?

[dawbs]

short answer...probably.

Your beef w/ her about the basketball game is a legitimate complaint...but it should probably have been addressed closer to when the incident occured, when she cancled.  Bringing it up in context of your own potential etiquette breech is rather underhanded and confrontational.

Once she made it clear what her preferences were, continuing to badger her was uncalled for, and the exchange makes it appear that meeting up with your work friends is more importantant than dinner with her.

[Chocolate Cake]

While she was rude earlier this month for dumping you when a "better offer" came along, I think she is in the right this time around.   Instead of trying to kill two birds with one stone that night, skip the bar to meet her for dinner (if she still wants to go with you) or re-schedule with her for sometime in January and go to the bar with your co-workers.

Suggestion for future:  If it becomes apparent that your suggestions are meeting with resistance, stop arguing.  It only makes it worse.  At that point, honor the preferences of the person with whom you made the original plans and call the other plans a bust.

[mimi_cat]

Thanks for the reality check.  

I usually just "go with the flow" with my cousin, since she will change plans all the time & agree to do something and then cancel.  Before we re-located here, I would come down and visit and she'd always talk about how we were going to go out for dinner or sight-seeing...and then I'd end up sitting around at my aunt and uncle's the entire time.   She also committed to a favor to DBF and I when we first moved down here and then backed out at the last minute, which caused a major headache for us.   Her nickname since childhoold has been "Queenie" for a reason.  I'm used to dealing with it, although I'm getting the impression that DBF doesn't quite care for her.  

I'm not sure if there will be other happy hours.  It's not something that happens frequently at my company.  I'm new to this area and haven't made alot of friends yet, and I thought this would be a good opportunity to get to know some new people. Since logisitically it could work, I figured it was worth a shot.  The bar is just a few minutes from where we are meeting for dinner.  

I think what bothered me was when she claimed it was about "manners", but it's something she herself has done, which is why I thought she would be understanding (once again, forgetting who I am dealing with here.)

I think I'm being overly sensitive.  This is my first holiday season away from my friends and immediate family, and I haven't established much of a new network of friends here, yet.  I feel that I've spent most of this year listening to her complain about her parents, and her brother, and her financial situation, and go on about her pseudo-boyfriend and his wife (but he said he might divorce her!), and encouraging her in her job search and starting therapy, etc.  I have learned over the years to never ask her for anything or expect anything.  I would have hoped the understanding would go both ways, but apparently it doesn't.  

I haven't heard anything back from her, so we'll see.

[DottyG]

Was thinking I was going to be alone in my thoughts when I was reading the OP.  Then, I read the replies and found that I'm with the majority after all.

(I'm bulleting these thoughts not to be rude, but because putting them into a paragraph would be too unwieldy.)

* You don't bring up the past in an argument.  It's always rule #1.  Yes, she was rude for cancelling the game.  But, it has NOTHING to do with the situation at hand and is very tacky to bring up now.

*  You weren't available for drinks with your coworkers.  She was right.  You had a committment with her that you chose to disregard in terms of your own "better offer."

*  Telling someone "just try it, you'll like it!" is rude.  She didn't want to be around other people.  She was hoping for a chance to be with one person and unwind.  You may love these coworkers.  But, to force her to love them too is mean on your part.

*  She may have a legitimate reason for not wanting to go to the bar.  And, in fact, she gave you that reason.  She didn't want to be in a bar the night before an important interview and take the chance on getting stuffed up with the smoke.

*  If what you posted is an exact duplicate of what you said, you came across as sounding very overbearing and rude (sorry - but the tone is very harsh).  Maybe you didn't mean to sound that way.  But, I think that, if I were her, I would have cancelled right then and there just from the tone of the emails she was receiving.  Her responses to you weren't rude.  But, yours back were.

Sorry - I know you were expecting everyone to jump on your side here!  But, this one didn't go over well for you.  Just learn something from it for the future in dealing with both her and with emailing people!

[DottyG]

Thanks for the reality check.  

I usually just "go with the flow" with my cousin, since she will change plans all the time & agree to do something and then cancel.  Before we re-located here, I would come down and visit and she'd always talk about how we were going to go out for dinner or sight-seeing...and then I'd end up sitting around at my aunt and uncle's the entire time.   She also committed to a favor to DBF and I when we first moved down here and then backed out at the last minute, which caused a major headache for us.   Her nickname since childhoold has been "Queenie" for a reason.  I'm used to dealing with it, although I'm getting the impression that DBF doesn't quite care for her.  

I'm not sure if there will be other happy hours.  It's not something that happens frequently at my company.  I'm new to this area and haven't made alot of friends yet, and I thought this would be a good opportunity to get to know some new people. Since logisitically it could work, I figured it was worth a shot.  The bar is just a few minutes from where we are meeting for dinner.  

I think what bothered me was when she claimed it was about "manners", but it's something she herself has done, which is why I thought she would be understanding (once again, forgetting who I am dealing with here.)

I think I'm being overly sensitive.  This is my first holiday season away from my friends and immediate family, and I haven't established much of a new network of friends here, yet.  I feel that I've spent most of this year listening to her complain about her parents, and her brother, and her financial situation, and go on about her pseudo-boyfriend and his wife (but he said he might divorce her!), and encouraging her in her job search and starting therapy, etc.  I have learned over the years to never ask her for anything or expect anything.  I would have hoped the understanding would go both ways, but apparently it doesn't.  

I haven't heard anything back from her, so we'll see.

You were posting at the same time I was.  But, again, you're bringing far more into this situation than is fair or even polite.  You need to deal with THIS situation only.  Not what she's done in the past or her "boyfriend" or anything else.  None of that matters.

[ShadesOfGrey]

You were posting at the same time I was.  But, again, you're bringing far more into this situation than is fair or even polite.  You need to deal with THIS situation only.  Not what she's done in the past or her "boyfriend" or anything else.  None of that matters.

PO-I mean, I agree.  Perhaps you didnt mean to be, but you were definitely out-of-line IMO.  I have done exactly what you did in this situation (all the time, actually), and I honestly didnt realize it was rude either, until someone called me on the carpet about it.  Since then, my behavior has improved, but sometimes, I still slip up and figure I can do both (more likely, all 12!) things in a day and have people work around my schedule...

[Clara Bow]

To be frank, I think you were both a little rude. There's no need to see just how inflexible you can be. I think that you were wrong to bring up past arguments and I think that she could have been a bit more accomidating, as you could have been.
Sounds like a big communication breakdown to me. Why don't you call her up and apologize and take her out? It will probably smooth things over quite well.

[Chocolate Cake]

since she will change plans all the time & agree to do something and then cancel.

This would have been reason enough for me to decide not schedule anything exclusive with her.  If she is part of a group activity and she cancels at the last minute, no biggie.  But, I wouldn't commit to anything anymore that involves only the two of you doing something.   

[platys]

I have to admit I got a little lost half way through the OP's post, I can say as someone who works downtown, but lives out in the burbs, laterish dinner plans downtown drive me crazy.

I'm a 6:30 eater as well, but being stuck hanging out at work until then when I'm done at 5 is highly annoying.

[freakyfemme]

Well, I think you meant well, at least.  You were trying to please your co-workers, by going to happy hour with them, and also your cousin, by keeping the original dinner plans at what you thought was the "normal" dinner time.  You just didn't want to have to say no to anyone, did you?  I've been in your shoes many times before, and I know it's not easy.

[Buffy2424]

Well, it sounds like you've gotten good replies already, but I quoted a significant turn in the conversation.

I don't think it was rude of you to suggest she join your co-workers at a bar; it's just that people should drop it after one or two polite, failed attempts to change plans. 

I bolded where you came across as aggressive by challenging/insulting her desire to just meet you for a quiet dinner.  And then of course things just went worse from there.

Me: "... Seriously, why can’t you meet us for a drink and then we’ll go on to dinner?"

Cousin: "I just don’t feel like it.  I was looking forward to a nice quiet dinner with you… I don’t want to be gallivanting all over town."

Me: "Well, we can have a nice quiet dinner, at a normal dinner time.  What time were you thinking of eating?  5:30 is way too early.  We aren’t going to be gallivanting all over town.  It’s only Monday, how can you know what you would feel like doing 3 days from now?  You need to get out more, for crying out loud.  It won’t kill you to have a drink with some new people.  Co-workerA and Co-workerB are really nice and you might actually have a good time. "

Cousin: "...To be honest, I have an interview the next day and I don’t want to be all stuffed up and no feeling well from cigarette smoke in a bar and I don’t want to stay out late, because this one in particular is really important to me and I want to get a good night’s sleep and so I can really put my best face forward."

Me: "OK, where do you see we are staying out late?... "

(Hi, I'm feeling like a very organized Buffy today!)