From the blog - Daddy's Little Girl (long)

[Mental Magpie]

It seems like the kiddo has made up her mind who to trust too, at least at the moment.  The dad can be there on milestones as much as he wants, but it doesn't make up for being there more. 

This was my reaction, or close to it. I was surprised at how many of the comments on the main site were complimentary towards Mike for making an effort to be there for special ocassions, even though he lived two states away. For an aunt, uncle, grandparent, or other relative, this might indeed be admirable. Fathers are supposed to be there (with their kids) all the time. Surely the fact that the OP has been more involved in her life than her father has something to do with Sally's feelings toward each and comfort level with each.

Now, that said, I certainly won't disagree with Admin and posters who say that it's not the OP's place to interfere when he is spending time with Sally, or create conflict during that time.

The cake thing? Plenty of people do handle food with their hands. It's probably better if we don't, though. 

Again, I find that judgemental and unnecessary. He could just not be there at all. As for everyone needing a dad, does that mean if the dad was abusive that he hold be there anyway just ecause dads should? You don't know the circumstances (though I doubt Mike is abusive because he's allowed there) so it is unfair to judge.

[NyaChan]

Not everyone who wants to be in their children's' lives gets to do it.  There are any number of reasons why Mike could have to live so far away which have nothing to do with how much or how little he might care for his daughter. 

[WillyNilly]

I see the LW nor the dad coming out clean here.  LW should have backed off and hidden her anger better.  Mike should have not snapped and used a fork.  I do agree with the LW on that, sorry to anyone who uses their fingers to help place other people's food on a plate.

Whenever people make this argument I wonder how they (you) feel about taking communion? In every church I've been to, the wafers are always handed out by hand. Plus communion is usually pretty late in the service, so there wouldn't even have been any recent hand-washing either - at least Mike told the LW he had washed his hands before touching the food.

I get that using a fork would look nicer, but that's about the only reason I can see for it.

Can I ask what on earth this has to do with the topic?  Do you think everyone or even most people go to churches that give communion?  You state this like its some normal everyone does it thing like drinking water or breathing - its not.

As for cake, at parties with lots of random people - office parties, larger parties, etc - I would use a utensil to assist in putting the cake on a  plate, but at a small casual "we're all friends & family" party I might use my finger... although I'd probably also make a point of saying "oh let me just wash up real quick before I serve that" so those around me knew my hands were freshly cleaned.

[djinnidjream]

It seems like the kiddo has made up her mind who to trust too, at least at the moment.  The dad can be there on milestones as much as he wants, but it doesn't make up for being there more. 

This was my reaction, or close to it. I was surprised at how many of the comments on the main site were complimentary towards Mike for making an effort to be there for special ocassions, even though he lived two states away. For an aunt, uncle, grandparent, or other relative, this might indeed be admirable. Fathers are supposed to be there (with their kids) all the time. Surely the fact that the OP has been more involved in her life than her father has something to do with Sally's feelings toward each and comfort level with each.

Now, that said, I certainly won't disagree with Admin and posters who say that it's not the OP's place to interfere when he is spending time with Sally, or create conflict during that time.

The cake thing? Plenty of people do handle food with their hands. It's probably better if we don't, though. 

Again, I find that judgemental and unnecessary. He could just not be there at all. As for everyone needing a dad, does that mean if the dad was abusive that he hold be there anyway just ecause dads should? You don't know the circumstances (though I doubt Mike is abusive because he's allowed there) so it is unfair to judge.

I also find this quite judgemental.  We have no idea why he lives two states away- in this economy, it could be because of a job so he can support said daughter.  Since the grandparents seem to be going out of their way to make Mike feel welcome and involved, that should be a tipoff that the relationship is decent.

[MariaE]

I see the LW nor the dad coming out clean here.  LW should have backed off and hidden her anger better.  Mike should have not snapped and used a fork.  I do agree with the LW on that, sorry to anyone who uses their fingers to help place other people's food on a plate.

Whenever people make this argument I wonder how they (you) feel about taking communion? In every church I've been to, the wafers are always handed out by hand. Plus communion is usually pretty late in the service, so there wouldn't even have been any recent hand-washing either - at least Mike told the LW he had washed his hands before touching the food.

I get that using a fork would look nicer, but that's about the only reason I can see for it.

Can I ask what on earth this has to do with the topic?  Do you think everyone or even most people go to churches that give communion?  You state this like its some normal everyone does it thing like drinking water or breathing - its not.

As for cake, at parties with lots of random people - office parties, larger parties, etc - I would use a utensil to assist in putting the cake on a  plate, but at a small casual "we're all friends & family" party I might use my finger... although I'd probably also make a point of saying "oh let me just wash up real quick before I serve that" so those around me knew my hands were freshly cleaned.

No, I don't think everybody goes to church or goes to a church that does communion - guess I should have added "if they do" to my statement, but I had assumed that was implied. I'm sorry my phrasing was offensive to you. What it has to do with the topic? Like some of the Australians who've commented, I wondered why his using his finger even warranted a comment and tried to find a common situation where people would be handed food with their fingers. That the example happened to be religious in nature is irrelevant. I just used the first example that sprang to mind.

[Jones]

There are a lot of people in my town who travel to places like North Dakota and Wyoming for weeks at a time, living in mancamps, so they can send money home to the family. I'll admit it's an assumption on my part but that was the first thing I thought when I read this.

The letter writer irritated me completely when I first read this, and my reaction to her upon reading it again is the same. I wouldn't want to be friends with her.

[WillyNilly]

Sorry if I came across harsh MariaE, its just that lately (as in the last few years) I've been encountering more and more this assumption - and by some people a very aggressive and sometimes with nasty undertone - that of course people* are Christians... and well I'm not.  There is very much a current in the US right now about us being a "Christian country" which as far as I know we are not by any means, and seemingly a lot of Christian strong-arming going on, so when I read that it just came across as yet another "well of course all decent people must experience this" type comment.  Which isn't necessarily what you meant, but more how I read it.  Thank you for clarifying and for your patience in your response.


*In fact its not just people, its that people assume, sometimes aggressively that *I* am Christian.  I have nothing against Christianity I'm simply not one.

[MariaE]

No worries WillyNilly. I forget that it is a more sensitive* subject in the US and that I ought to qualify my statements.

* Meant with absolutely no snark whatsoever, but for the reasons you outlined.

[Mom2PBJ]

In my church the priest would give you the wafer with his hands. I don't remember him washing his hands before he gave it you either. I never could bring myself to drink the wine.

Some churches have gotten better at sanitation recently.  My church and my parents church both have hand sanitizer dispensers hidden just out of sight where the ministers can use them right before handling the hosts & cups.

I note you say "cups" does that mean each person gets their own cup to drink from? It's been years since I have been to church but they used to have the wine in a chalice and whip it with a cloth between each person. But they rarely had the wine available - I guess they decided the best way to make sure not to spread germs was to not have the opportunity.

We have itty bitty cups, smaller than the medicine cups on NyQuil bottles.  Now those are collected back and washed to be used the next time.

[jedikaiti]

I'm going to side with the Aussie contingent here on the fingers - so long as he isn't excessively manhandling the cake, and I have no particular reason to assume he's unusually unhygienic or carrying typhoid or licking his fingers between each piece, using a a couple fingers to avoid making a mess while serving the cake is no big deal to me. It would be nice if he didn't, but LW handled it ALL WRONG. A much nicer way would be to ask if she could get him a fork or spatula to use, so he didn't end up with frosting all over his hands.

[HonorH]

It seems like the kiddo has made up her mind who to trust too, at least at the moment.  The dad can be there on milestones as much as he wants, but it doesn't make up for being there more. 

This was my reaction, or close to it. I was surprised at how many of the comments on the main site were complimentary towards Mike for making an effort to be there for special ocassions, even though he lived two states away. For an aunt, uncle, grandparent, or other relative, this might indeed be admirable. Fathers are supposed to be there (with their kids) all the time. Surely the fact that the OP has been more involved in her life than her father has something to do with Sally's feelings toward each and comfort level with each.

Now, that said, I certainly won't disagree with Admin and posters who say that it's not the OP's place to interfere when he is spending time with Sally, or create conflict during that time.

The cake thing? Plenty of people do handle food with their hands. It's probably better if we don't, though. 

Again, I find that judgemental and unnecessary. He could just not be there at all. As for everyone needing a dad, does that mean if the dad was abusive that he hold be there anyway just ecause dads should? You don't know the circumstances (though I doubt Mike is abusive because he's allowed there) so it is unfair to judge.

I also find this quite judgemental.  We have no idea why he lives two states away- in this economy, it could be because of a job so he can support said daughter.  Since the grandparents seem to be going out of their way to make Mike feel welcome and involved, that should be a tipoff that the relationship is decent.

Yeah. Jobs don't just fall off trees (don't I know that!), and, in some industries, you may not have all that much choice of where to go for work. It could be that Mike would love to live closer to his daughter, but he just can't. He makes a special effort to see her, only to find that she sees him as a stranger. And then, to top it off, there's some smug woman who acts like she's taken his place, and she keeps finding fault with him. No wonder he was bristling.

[Winterlight]

There are a lot of people in my town who travel to places like North Dakota and Wyoming for weeks at a time, living in mancamps, so they can send money home to the family. I'll admit it's an assumption on my part but that was the first thing I thought when I read this.

The letter writer irritated me completely when I first read this, and my reaction to her upon reading it again is the same. I wouldn't want to be friends with her.

I was thinking he might be in the military or something.

And yeah, the LW comes off as sanctimonious to me. And a little too invested in Sally's life.

[AngelicGamer]

Alright - I can see I'm in the minority on the cake thing.  Even with my family, when it is just us, we still use a fork.  We might be a bit strange.  I'm okay with that.    If I ever have cake with you guys, remind me that it is cake and, in the end, it won't really matter because...cake.   

As for what I said about the dad - I don't really see it as judgmental but maybe bringing my own baggage without declaring.  My parents divorced when I was four and one of my mom's friends stepped up to the plate to help her a lot.  Mostly because my dad was dealing with a lot of alcohol abuse and he had to get his ducks in a row first.  After my dad cleaned up, he was allowed, at first, to see me at family functions until mom trusted him more for solo visits.  I was that shy little girl who hid behind my adoptive aunt (and real aunt too!) because I didn't recognize my dad as this calm and collected person.  What my mom's friend did was better than the LW did was she would help my dad reintroduce himself to me so I would come out of my shy shell.  I could see her getting protective if my dad ever got aggressive in little ways that just wouldn't sit right.  So I can see why I went to the conclusion I did while others went to a completely different conclusion. 

I still stick to both not coming out clean but I can see why others think the LW should have dropped it.  I didn't really see it at first and I love this site for getting so many different opinions so I can understand/see the other side of the coin.