Forum Etiquette vs. Real Life Etiquette

[Hanna]

For you personally, what is the difference in etiquette rules for a face-to-face conversation and the ones we have online?

This has been on my mind lately after a few threads, and though we've had this discussion before, I think it's an interesting topic to explore.

In the last week I have both unintentionally offended someone with my opinion and been slightly offended myself.  The opinion was about pre-nuptial agreements and if we had been face-to-face I would have better qualified my statement or not made it at all.  The offense I took (though didn't really post until now) was in the thread about using professional titles, when the OP expressed a judgement about people that use the term "Doctor and Dentist" saying she finds them "gauche" and "ignorant" but would never express that to them directly.

Where are your lines in an online discussion?  How careful should we be not to offend one another here, versus in real life?

[Fluffy Cat]

Personally, I feel that we can say some things online in this forum (especially since our goal here is self-improvement rather than friendship or professional relationships) that definitely should not be said in real life.  That being said, I think it is necessary to exercise some degree of care when expressing those opinions.  Yes, even when we are just describing the thoughts that go through our heads.  Those thoughts are not rude in real life-because they are left unsaid-but in my opinion, they can become rude here because that qualification no longer applies.

I have expressed this viewpoint in threads before, and have generally been responded to with apologies, understanding, and a rewording of the (almost always) unintentionally offensive statement.

[Dandy Andy's Daddy's Love]

My biggest pet peeve about the way some people express themselves on this forum is the use of "that's an interesting assumption". The IA line is meant for times when you are so shocked, you can't formulate a response. The fact that E-hell is not actually a conversation, in the sense that we can all take quite a bit of time to formulate our responses, makes using the IA line rude. You have plenty of time to write a response that corrects the assumption, instead of simply calling someone out on it.

One of the biggest things that's okay on E-hell, but not in real life is calling other people out on their rudeness. None of us should do this in real life, but because we all belong to a forum dedicated to etiquette, it's okay to tell someone when they've been rude.

[Fluffy Cat]

My biggest pet peeve about the way some people express themselves on this forum is the use of "that's an interesting assumption". The IA line is meant for times when you are so shocked, you can't formulate a response. The fact that E-hell is not actually a conversation, in the sense that we can all take quite a bit of time to formulate our responses, makes using the IA line rude. You have plenty of time to write a response that corrects the assumption, instead of simply calling someone out on it.

One of the biggest things that's okay on E-hell, but not in real life is calling other people out on their rudeness. None of us should do this in real life, but because we all belong to a forum dedicated to etiquette, it's okay to tell someone when they've been rude.

I agree with this.  I was more thinking along the lines of subjectively (this does not apply when it is entirely objective) referring to a behavior as gross, gauche, insecure, rude etc. and then saying "but I would never say that"

ETA: particularly after hearing from posters who engage in that behavior.  Again, I am only referring to subjective gray areas, not obvious and clear etiquette/social/professional violations.

[O'Dell]

I've been thinking about this lately too. I've noticed that some people here are quicker to take offense than on other message boards. Now is it that people here are more sensitive and, dare I say, prickly? Or is it because people here are quicker to pick up on subtleties of language and expression? A little of both I think.

Some of the situations that I witnessed here have reminded me of the first message board that I participated in. It was focused on men and men's issues. Boy that was an eye-opener for me...in good ways and bad!    Other women posted on there as well. Occasionally a man would post a rant/vent about women in general...some might even have been considered women bashing. It was a joke among the men there that no matter how much truth there was to the generality, there was sure to be a woman pop in, act all offended, and say that it didn't apply to her. The men complained that women were always saying "I'm not like that!" And honestly, once it was pointed out, I saw that it was true! Soon the men were mocking the women for posting that sort of comment and some of the women posted to say that they weren't like that and didn't post that sort of comment.  And no they weren't being ironic.

I see that a lot here. Someone says they think it's really rude when someone does x and if they don't qualify it and put conditions on it and say in my opinion and "I think" and "maybe", bam...someone jumps in to say that "I'm not like that!" They are the exception, or they've had to do it and feel justified or whatever their reasoning that the rule doesn't apply to them. Honestly I just figure that it's really more to do with their own issues than what's been said, and move on.

I think the difference between that sort of thing in real life v the internet is that people are less likely to pipe up and call attention to their "I'm not like that" status for a variety of reasons. On the internet there is less that holds people back from saying things they would not say in real life where they face more repercussions. And because it has more to do with people's own issues, I don't think there is a way to eliminate it. It's something that they have to wrestle with.

[gollymolly2]

Ways that this is different than real life for me:

1. People are coming on here to discuss what is rude. So whereas, in real life, if somebody told me "I did X,Y,Z today" I would never say "Oh X is totally rude." But that's the very nature of the site, so it leads to people criticizing each other in ways that we wouldn't in real life.

2. People frequently come on here to talk about other people's rudeness. So for me, if you're going to come on here and point the finger at someone else, I'm going to be on the lookout for ways that YOU caused the rudeness, because that is the only thing you can really control.

3. We're here for information. So when people ask, "why do people do/think/say X??" I'm more likely to tell them "I think X because ..." in order to be informative. Sometimes X or my reason is politically incorrect and is not something I would normally share. But I'll share it here because I'm willing to give people more information. But this is an easy way to offend other people.


Thought I'd add ways that I'm more polite on here:
In real life I make a lot of snarky and sarcastic comments. I do my best to leave them out there. I remember another thread a while back where one poster wrote the same thing, like 15 times, every other post. In real life, I would have been like "Yeah, we got your point the fifth time you told us." On here, I keep it to myself.

[Hanna]

My biggest pet peeve about the way some people express themselves on this forum is the use of "that's an interesting assumption". The IA line is meant for times when you are so shocked, you can't formulate a response. The fact that E-hell is not actually a conversation, in the sense that we can all take quite a bit of time to formulate our responses, makes using the IA line rude.

It bothers me too, and this is one of the reasons that I had not quite identified.

[Hanna]

I have to remember that sarcasm and body language don't translate through to online conversations. I know when I'm joking around, but not everyone else does.

I have the same problem with being facetious and ironic.  However, this also happens in real-life for me.  Sigh... I am so misunderstood.

[PeterM]

I have to remember that sarcasm and body language don't translate through to online conversations. I know when I'm joking around, but not everyone else does.

This is the biggest difference/problem I've run into online. When I'm making a joke and I think there's even a slight chance it might be taken seriously I change it to make it so over the top and ridiculous that there's simply no way anyone could ever believe I'm serious.

Except someone always does, of course. Le sigh.

I'm speaking of online interaction in general, for the record, not just this forum.

[Hanna]

One of the biggest things that's okay on E-hell, but not in real life is calling other people out on their rudeness. None of us should do this in real life, but because we all belong to a forum dedicated to etiquette, it's okay to tell someone when they've been rude.

This could be a topic all on it's own.  I hold that it's rude to tell someone they are using the wrong fork or ignoring a rule of decorum, but not always rude to tell someone when they are being rude or inconsiderate to you or another person.

Either way, I agree that if someone comes here asking about a situation, we can tell them what we think.  Still I found myself loathe to tell the OP "Thinking people that use that term are ignorant may not be rude, but you posted it here knowing full-well that some of us are likely to use that phrase ourselves.  You may be polite in person, but online you are rude."

[Fluffy Cat]

This is the biggest difference/problem I've run into online. When I'm making a joke and I think there's even a slight chance it might be taken seriously I change it to make it so over the top and ridiculous that there's simply no way anyone could ever believe I'm serious.

Except someone always does, of course. Le sigh.

I'm speaking of online interaction in general, for the record, not just this forum.

What on earth do you mean by the bolded?  That is incredibly, unreasonably dismissive.  My goodness!

[blarg314]

I agree with this.  I was more thinking along the lines of subjectively (this does not apply when it is entirely objective) referring to a behavior as gross, gauche, insecure, rude etc. and then saying "but I would never say that"

It would be rude to announce to someone that you think that their behaviour is gauche and pretentious, or their decision is stupid.  However, a discussion *about* an issue is different than a comment to someone, on-line or in person.

So if someone introduced themselves as "Dentist Smith" at a party or in a forum, you wouldn't say "Wow, isn't that pretentious!". You'd say "Nice to meet you."  But if someone asked on an etiquette forum or in a general conversation what other people thought about using titles in social settings, then you can say "I find it kind of pretentious and affected". The difference is the type of conversation, not the medium over which it's being conducted.

There is a difference, I think, in a forum where you don't know the people involved rather than a conversation where you know all the people. In the latter, you know people's personalities, and some of their sensitive points or weird prejudices, and will generally adapt to them in how and what you say. In a forum, it's less personal, and tends to be more oriented around discussing a particular topic.

[bbgirl]

This is the biggest difference/problem I've run into online. When I'm making a joke and I think there's even a slight chance it might be taken seriously I change it to make it so over the top and ridiculous that there's simply no way anyone could ever believe I'm serious.

Except someone always does, of course. Le sigh.

I'm speaking of online interaction in general, for the record, not just this forum.

What on earth do you mean by the bolded?  That is incredibly, unreasonably dismissive.  My goodness!

Dismissive of who?  I'm unclear as to whether this is meant in a sarcastic manner and proving PeterM's point, or if you really find his statement about general online interaction offensive? 

[Bijou]

For you personally, what is the difference in etiquette rules for a face-to-face conversation and the ones we have online?

This has been on my mind lately after a few threads, and though we've had this discussion before, I think it's an interesting topic to explore.

In the last week I have both unintentionally offended someone with my opinion and been slightly offended myself.  The opinion was about pre-nuptial agreements and if we had been face-to-face I would have better qualified my statement or not made it at all.  The offense I took (though didn't really post until now) was in the thread about using professional titles, when the OP expressed a judgement about people that use the term "Doctor and Dentist" saying she finds them "gauche" and "ignorant" but would never express that to them directly.

Where are your lines in an online discussion?  How careful should we be not to offend one another here, versus in real life?

People cannot see your expressions, body language nor can they hear the tone of your voice.  They don't really know you.  So, they often don't know how to take what you say.  And they may have formed assumptions about you from past posts that they would never have if they knew you IRL.  And let's face it, what we deal with here for the most part are tricky situations where people have strong opinions which can also create feelings that are not really comfortable.  It just goes with the territory.  

Oh, and all of you who are wiseacre-sassy pants people in real life...me, too.  I have to watch it.  I come from a family where everyone is 'quick on the uptake', as my mom described it, and quips fly like crazy around our house...but, not on the forum.  I have had to learn to guard my sense of humor.
(I hope I didn't just offend anyone.  ) 

[Fluffy Cat]

Dismissive of who?  I'm unclear as to whether this is meant in a sarcastic manner and proving PeterM's point, or if you really find his statement about general online interaction offensive?  

I guess I proved his point too well.  I was being sarcastic.