Another Christmas etiquette question

[freakyfemme]

Hey all,

This seems to be a ruder-than-normal holiday season....but again, I don't know who was rude, me, my family, or my friend.  For our purposes, let's call my friend "Pedro."  We're close, we've been friends since grade nine, and I get along really well with everyone in his family, and he gets along well with my parents.  But still, we have certain boundaries, or at least, I thought we did.  Anyway, last night, my family was going to decorate our Christmas tree, and we'd just sat down to a pre-decorating dinner of take-out pizza, when Pedro called.  He asked me if I was busy that night, and I said I was, I was having dinner and then decorating the tree with my family, and he then proceeded to ASK IF HE COULD COME OVER TO HELP, since his mother had put up their tree while he was still away at school, and he'd missed out.  Gobsmacked, I stammered out, "Okay," because he sounded so insistent, and I said I'd ask the family and then call back after dinner, figuring I'd relay Pedro's request to my family, and they'd say no.  I said I'd rather he not come, because a) Decorating the tree is a family thing, and b) Pedro is g@y, and my brother is extremely homophobic. 

Anyway......not only did they say they wanted him to come, they also gave me chapter and verse on how rude I was to NOT want him there.  I tried to explain how I felt, but they just kept dismissing and bulldozing over everything I said.  Anyway, I called Pedro back after dinner, and my mom and I had to go get him, since his parents had taken both vehicles (which would be fine under NORMAL circumstances, since he's given me rides many times), and on the way, my mom continued to go on and on about how rude I was, and insisted that I offer Pedro some pizza and ice cream, although he'd told me that he'd JUST eaten (yes, I'd asked).  When I rang Pedro's doorbell, he "gifted" me with yet ANOTHER CD of himself singing (he'd given me one last year as well--different years, different recordings).  Now, as a performance major myself, I find this a bit narcissistic, because the way I see it, audition CD's are audition CD's, not gifts.  But anyway.....more on that later.

When we arrived back home, and Pedro had had pizza and ice cream (which I'm sure he ate just to please my mom), he started going through all our ornaments and *meticulously* placing them on the tree in exactly the places he thought they should go, putting more thought into the whole process than we do ("we" meaning the "regular" members of the Starvingartist clan, lol), and asking about things that I'd really rather have kept private, like the ornaments that my parents had bought when they got married, when they moved into the house when I was two years old, and the random ones my brother and I made in school when we were kids.  As for my brother himself......the whole time this was going on, he just stayed in his room and didn't participate the way he normally would have.  Yes, it meant I didn't have to run interference as the PC Police in case he said something homophobic, but it also kind of felt like Pedro was trying to commandeer a temporary place as my parents' son.  Okay, it's true that Pedro's parents treat me like their own daughter when I visit him, but the way I see it, that's all the more reason why I feel I should respect boundaries, and remember that I'm *not* their daughter, especially at certain times.....like this. 

To top it off, mid-way through the decorating process, Pedro insisted that we play his CD, so we could "give him our opinion."  This may not seem rude, but at the time, we were already listening to other music, and I'd planned to play a (single-song) Christmas CD that one of my friends at school had recorded (let's call her Princess Mezzodiva), that I'd bought partly because of PM, and partly because the proceeds went towards the refugee sponsorship fund, which enables two refugee students per year to attend Bishops, who wouldn't otherwise be able to do so.  But no, Pedro's CD *HAD* to come first......so it did, and PM got squeezed in at the end of the evening, after the impromptu Pedropalooza.  Of course, I was nice to him throughout the whole evening, because he's my friend and all, but SHEESH.  Who does that?  Seriously, who thinks it's okay to invite themselves over to someone else's house to hijack a FAMILY activity, and then turn it into an opportunity to show off?

As if that wasn't enough, my mom gave me *another* dressing-down on the way to work this morning, about how "rude" I'd been about having Pedro over, and then *very* smarmily asked "if I'd had a good time with him."  I hadn't, really.....I found it really trying and weird, but of course, I lied and said "yes," because telling the truth would have resulted in further lecturing.  Oh, and sure enough, my brother had managed to fit in a few real zingers about Pedro's voice, movements, etc. earlier this morning.  I know it sounds weird that I'm defending Pedro after "bashing" him, but the way I see it......it's okay to be g@y, but it's NOT okay to be rude.  My family just doesn't seem to get this.

(Edited to substitute LEGITIMATE, PROPERLY-USED TERM THAT PEDRO IS PERFECTLY OKAY WITH, for cutesy misspelled euphemism)

[NOVA Lady]

This reminds of a post on the old board. I think it was split half and half. However I think some things are just family traditions and while its fun to involve friends in some of them there is really something to be said for family bonding time and growing closer together.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not wanting him there, and I think it was a bit odd of him to ask to join. I have been invited when I was younger to decorate friend's trees (I am jewish so I never got one until this year) but I would not have asked.

Its the same thing with me and my SO, sometimes we want friends over doing stuff with us. But sometimes (like the time we planned a nice dinner we cooked together) we'd rather have some time to bond together.

[guihong]

1) Is it agreed in your family that tree-trimming is "family only", or is that just your belief?  Maybe your parents don't think the same way, and didn't mind company.  Maybe Pedro's family doesn't have the same boundaries, either.

2) Pedro was technically a guest, so in my home, his CD would have come first, since he was there.  As for the CD, I don't see much difference in that vs. a friend sending me her own songs on files.  I see it as sharing who they are, not showing off.  He probably really did want your opinion, as you're a music person yourself.

I suppose my response is, Pedro might not have done the same thing as I would, but I don't find anything egregious in his behavior, either.  

gui

[freakyfemme]

^^Yeah, that was Foxxy who wrote the previous post about this issue, except I thought I'd ask, because for one thing, it might also be partly my fault for tacitly okaying Pedro's request to come over (although he never should have asked, since I'd already said I was unavailable), and for another, Foxxy's friends didn't bring over a CD of themselves singing and insist she play it in their presence.  Also, Foxxy's friends were a married couple, which eliminates the g@y issue that my brother has with Pedro.....so, the presence of Foxxy's friends didn't prevent any family members from participating in decorating.

[ShadesOfGrey]

I sympathize with your feelings freakyfemme, the best thing to do from now on is to simply say No from the beginning.  Not easy, but definitely not rude.  As uncouth as he sounds, he had no way of knowing he was intruding since you extended the invitation.  As for your relatives thinking that you are rude, well, there's nothing you can do about that except tell them that you regard this as a special time with your family, and you personally would like to keep it that way.  If you are hosting, it's up to you who gets invited and who does not.  Your brother's reaction is his responsibility, not yours.

[Twik]

There seems to be a pretty even split in ideas about holidays like this - some people feel it is "more the merrier" and everyone they can lay their hands on must be brought in as proof of good cheer towards humanity. Other people feel it is a special time just for bonding with immediate family, and the presence of non-family dilutes it. I can't say either one is right or wrong. However it's odd that your mom would tell you to invite Pedro, and then say you were rude to do so the next day. It was also rude of your brother to hide out while he was there; of course, if he felt he just couldn't avoid being nasty otherwise, it was the best solution.

[freakyfemme]

There seems to be a pretty even split in ideas about holidays like this - some people feel it is "more the merrier" and everyone they can lay their hands on must be brought in as proof of good cheer towards humanity. Other people feel it is a special time just for bonding with immediate family, and the presence of non-family dilutes it. I can't say either one is right or wrong. However it's odd that your mom would tell you to invite Pedro, and then say you were rude to do so the next day. It was also rude of your brother to hide out while he was there; of course, if he felt he just couldn't avoid being nasty otherwise, it was the best solution.

No, actually, my mom didn't say I was rude to invite Pedro (or rather, to reluctantly allow him to invite HIMSELF), she said I was rude for *not* wanting him to come over.  Truth be told, I thought she'd want to keep it family-only too, because she always hated it when her older friend, and my uncle and his boyfriend, would come over on Christmas, stay the better part of the day, and expect to be entertained.  So, this year, Christmas Day will be just the four of us, because she's tired of playing hostess, and we're all THRILLED about that.  So, naturally, I assumed that her "Christmas is just for the four of us" attitude extended to decorating the tree as well.  So, I thought that she'd think it was rude if I *did* invite Pedro over.....which I didn't intend or want to do at all.

[DottyG]

I must be missing Pedro's rudeness in your post, FF.

Because all he did was ask if you were available (which is perfectly fine).  You answered.  He asked if you'd mind if he joined you for decorating the tree (which is perfectly fine).  You said yes.  He came over after you gave him the permission to (which is perfectly fine).  He asked you about certain ornaments (which is perfectly fine).  He asked if you minded listening to a CD he'd done (which is perfectly fine).

I'm unclear on where Pedro's the rude one here.

As far as tree-trimming's being a family only thing, it is in my family as well.  It's not "rude" to limit it to family nor is it "rude" to allow others to participate.  It's up to each family to decide what works best for them.  However, it was also not rude of him to ask if he could join you.  If you didn't want him there, you would have said, "no".  You didn't do so, so he came.  Nothing rude on his part about that at all.

[freakyfemme]

I must be missing Pedro's rudeness in your post, FF.

Because all he did was ask if you were available (which is perfectly fine).  You answered.  He asked if you'd mind if he joined you for decorating the tree (which is perfectly fine).  You said yes.  He came over after you gave him the permission to (which is perfectly fine).  He asked you about certain ornaments (which is perfectly fine).  He asked if you minded listening to a CD he'd done (which is perfectly fine).

I'm unclear on where Pedro's the rude one here.

As far as tree-trimming's being a family only thing, it is in my family as well.  It's not "rude" to limit it to family nor is it "rude" to allow others to participate.  It's up to each family to decide what works best for them.  However, it was also not rude of him to ask if he could join you.  If you didn't want him there, you would have said, "no".  You didn't do so, so he came.  Nothing rude on his part about that at all.

Well, he asked if I was busy......I said yes, I was, and he persisted.  Isn't it polite to just accept it when someone says they're doing something else, and possibly make other arrangements, rather than trying to insert themselves into the "something else?"  As for the CD thing, well, I guess I should elaborate.  It's sort of just a basic tenet of "music etiquette" (at least at my school) that recordings of oneself are not to be given as gifts if unsolicited, especially if they're copies of CD's that are meant as audition CD's, as Pedro's was.  There are a few reasons for this, for one thing, it's narcissistic, and for another thing, it assumes that everyone has the same taste in music, which isn't true by any means....and for another, because of the "friend" issue, it sort of forces people to come up with something positive to say on the spot.  Even if one is an outstanding performer (which Pedro admittedly is, which has jacked up his ego a bit), not everyone is going to be crazy about "classical" music.  So, by that standpoint, you can see how I'd never, EVER give out something like that to my friends, and then invite myself into their houses and insist on stopping the music that was ALREADY PLAYING to play my CD, and show off my "skills." 

[DottyG]

Well, he asked if I was busy......I said yes, I was, and he persisted.  Isn't it polite to just accept it when someone says they're doing something else, and possibly make other arrangements, rather than trying to insert themselves into the "something else?" 

According to what you told us you said you were trimming the tree.  He asked if you'd mind if he joined you, as his mother did theirs while he was gone, and he'd missed out.

This was your opportunity to say, "Pedro, we'd really love to see you, but trimming the tree is something that my family does just with us.  We'd love to have you join us afterwards for hot chocolate, so you could enjoy the tree."

But, you didn't do that.  You made the choice to say, "Yes, Pedro.  Come join us."  At which point, he did just that.  This did not make him rude.  It just means that you were too wimpy (with all due respect) to stand up for yourself and utter a two letter word that would have solved your problem.  No.  You decided to not do this and then want to blame it on him.  Sorry - not his problem!

[Gileswench]

I think I have to go with Dotty G's interpretation here. If you and Pedro have been friends for that long, he may consider you a part of his 'family' and not see asking to join in trimming the tree as rude. I know I wouldn't have seen it as rude unless it had already been made clear in advance that this was a purely family activity. It seems you were the only one who felt that way, and as such, it was up to you to tell your friend so without asking everyone else and then being upset with their answers.

As for asking about ornaments...I know I love it when people want to know the history of mine. Some have family stories attached or memories of special trips, even of people long gone who were very important in my life. I love to tell the stories. Someone asking me where they come from or what significance they hold are showing an interest in me and mine. Besides, it's not everyone who has a celuloid elephant hanging on their Christmas tree! I can see why someone might be curious.

It seems that your musical friends have a very different way of handling audition CDs than mine do. My beloved is a musician and in his circle demo CDs are more or less the equivilant of the Annual Christmas Letter: IOW they tell you what your friends have been up to since last you saw them...in a musical sense. Perhaps Pedro is looking at it more in that light. At any rate, it isn't rude to give someone a gift, even if it's not the gift the recipiant would best like, and I would see playing the CD while he's there as no more of a faux pas than opening the bottle of wine someone brought as a gift.

I'm sorry your brother felt the need to absent himself from trimming the tree rather than have to interact socially with your gay friend, but that reflects more on your brother than on you or Pedro. Also, once the invitation was extended, it was up to your brother to find a way to cope without causing more disturbance than necessary. If hiding was the only way he could find to fail to be directly rude to a guest, then perhaps it was for the best.

Mostly it sounds as though your interpretation of what the activity was meant to be failed to correspond to your parent's interpretation or Pedro's. Any etiquette missteps resulting appear to me to be caused by that basic failure to agree on the nature of the event rather than any deliberately rude behavior on the part of anyone involved.

[freakyfemme]

Okay, I concur.....but everybody, please, say "g@y."  It's a legitimate term, and for the record, "gleeful" is spelled with one L, and not two. 

[Gileswench]

I'm sorry your brother felt the need to absent himself from trimming the tree rather than have to interact socially with your unusually gleefull friend,

Okay...that wasn't the term I used. I guess g@y is as close as I'm going to get. I was trying to avoid using a euphemism, but I suppose the filters require it. I'm going to assume it's so we don't get seriously inappropriate banner ads appearing.

[Gileswench]

Okay, I concur.....but everybody, please, say "g@y."  It's a legitimate term, and for the record, "gleeful" is spelled with one L, and not two. 

I think it's sad that the filter doesn't even know how to spell it's own replacement term. In future I will use the @ symbol in the middle. I had no idea the filters would change it to such a ridiculous (and misspelled) term.

[DottyG]

Testing, because y'all have me curious as to what you're talking about.

unusually gleefull

unusually gleefull

ETA:  Ah, ok.  I understand now.