I am going to pull my hair out! Vent

[MadMadge43]

So I told you all about the sales manager that tried to steal my customer and almost lost the account in the process. I was promoted to Director of Sales above him a little after that.

Well he is getting on my ever last nerve. He needs his hand held on everything and takes up more of my time and the other sales managers time asking questions because he doesn't know how to do anything!  And I mean anything!  Today he asked me how to create a reply. Huh? a reply?  yeah you know so it responds, come again, you know of the e-mail, um, do you mean the out of office assistant? Yeah, that's it.  So I show him how to put on out of office assistant because you know at 45 and 20 years in the office experience that's a new fangle gadget.  The list is really endless, on Monday when we're both back in the office, I am going to start a tally sheet of all the questions he asks the two of us and then give it to him at the end of the week when we sit down to discuss this situation. 

Then the next thing that I am trying to curb, is him going to our boss about everything.  Now I realize that he used to be problem child's boss and some things could be a matter of habbit, but this is our conversation today:
PC I noticed that the assoc your apart of has a meeting on Thursday, I realize that you have something else planned, but I need you to start attending these again, I think they're important.  PC say: Well, I go alot and Mitch doesn't really want me going.  Me: well I do so please let me know when the next one is. PC: ok, well I'll talk about it with Big Boss (actual term he used) because it's his budget  Me: no, it's my budget and I want you going ok?  Silence.

First off, he hasn't been to one in months because I've kept track. Secondly, "Big Boss" wants him to go, they're breakfast meetings so he doesn't want to go. And I swear if he tells me one more thing that "Big Boss" said he wanted I'm going to scream. I have told him repeatedly "well, then "big boss" is wrong because this is how it works."  Oh and BB is within earshot of me and never says a word because PC has usually missed the whole point of the message BB tried to convey to him. 

Welcome to management baby!

[ShadesOfGrey]

hey,

I've dealt with workers like these too, and I am so sorry for your frustration.  My boyfriend is in this EXACT situation right now, actually - the main thing to remember is that BB has to back YOU up.  When this guy goes to him, his standard reply should be "what did MadMadge43 say?" Of course, he will already know what you said, and be ok with it, because you talked with him.  When the other guy sees that you and BB are on the same team, he wont have anywhere to go.  Moreover, you need to have a meeting with him and explain that his lack of professionalism is hurting his performance.  Is there a review process for employees? Do you participate in it for this guy? Be SURE to put something in his review about it (or about any meetings you have had to discuss the issue with him) (as an aside, I hate it when there are "problem employees", and review time comes around and nothing is said about the issues-duh, that's what reviews are for!) Anyway, dont stoop to his level.  Rebut his simple questions, with something like - So-and-so can show you that, why dont you ask him/her? Or, Microsoft has some great training modules, why dont you take some time to review those.  There's also a great quick reference help section....

Your best defense is a completely professional I-expect-more-from-you attitude.  I would not suggest telling him that BB is wrong.   You need to present a united fron with him.  Good luck!

[Katharine]

Is there any way "Big Boss" can talk to PC and tell him you are now his boss?

[Clara Bow]

I love tattletales! They make such handy little doorstops! I think I'd talk to the Big Boss and explain that this employee was getting PA with me and ignoring my authority and I needed some backup. There is no reason for you to be going through this. Do you have any kind of disciplinary action, like write-ups that you can do when he skips your meetings? You might need to show this guy that you mean business to get his attention.

[graceh9]

First off, he hasn't been to one in months because I've kept track. Secondly, "Big Boss" wants him to go, they're breakfast meetings so he doesn't want to go. And I swear if he tells me one more thing that "Big Boss" said he wanted I'm going to scream. I have told him repeatedly "well, then "big boss" is wrong because this is how it works."  Oh and BB is within earshot of me and never says a word because PC has usually missed the whole point of the message BB tried to convey to him. 

Welcome to management baby!
[/quote]

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is there some reason he isn't fired?   If I were you I would carefully document the issues of incompetence, and insubordination.  I would carefully put in writing things like your request that he attend these meetings. etc   build a record then start progressive discipline.  Obviously if BB is undercutting you or won't allow this then you have to proceed differently, but it is definitely appropriate to start supervising closely and tightening the screws regardless.

such fun

[Chocolate Cake]

The "Big Boss" has to make it clear that the baton of authority over PC has been passed to you.  As another poster said, Big Boss' first comment when PC approaches him about anything is to say, "Take this to Madge" or "What did Madge say about it" or "What does Madge want you to do" or (flat out) "You need to talk to Madge about it."

As long as Big Boss continues to step in front of you where PC is concerned, PC will continue to try to go around you.   

Ultimately, then, your problem is with Big Boss more than with PC on this specific issue.

[Tabris]

Me: no, it's my budget and I want you going ok?

No "okay" at the end of the sentence. It implies that if he isn't okay with it, he doesn't have to do it. Much better is, "No, it's my budget. From now on, you will be going."

I think in his heart of hearts, PC realizes he has too many questions to ask only you or only the big boss, so he divides them up. He may be farming out other questions to other people as well.

[Lisbeth]

Keep being firm and make it clear that BB is not his boss anymore.  Get BB and HR to back you up.

I agree with the advice not to follow up your orders with "okay?"  That suggests to him that he has a choice not to accept them.

[minnaloushe]

I remember what you wrote about before, and maybe it's time for him to get a wake up call.  First discuss the situation with "Big Boss", then if appropriate follow through with a conflict resolution meeting.

Now that you've made it perfectly clear that you want him at these morning meetings, the ball is in his court.  If he misses another, call him into your office for some one-on-one "job coaching” to the point - ask if he's happy in his position, and what he sees himself doing within the company in the future.  Tell him that his missing the meeting was unacceptable and you are putting a written warning in his employee file (you do use them, I trust).  Let him know a second (or third, or whatever the company limit is) will be grounds for termination. Personally I would let him know that you are NOT impressed, and as your employee he works for you alone, not your boss, and if that were his wish, you would be more than happy to accept his resignation to allow him to pursue other opportunities with Big Boss.

What’s the point of having weight if you don’t get to throw it around a little?

[MadMadge43]

To All,

I spoke to Big Boss about this today and he has agreed to refer everything back to me and make it much clearer to PC what the role is.  He also said, the Assoc. meeting was mandatory and never told PC that he didn't want him to go. 

BB has a real aversion to firing people and just wants to keep working with him. It's too soon for me to do this yet, and have to give it a little while until to pull my weight.  Otherwise the production team is going to think I'm horrible.  But once they see I have done everything I could and can convince boss then it will be time to put my foot down.

But who knows maybe he will come around and I can actually help him. And I like the advice about not saying OK. 

[Chocolate Cake]

Otherwise the production team is going to think I'm horrible.

You might be surprised.   Usually, most people want someone fired long before the boss is willing to do it.   If/when it happens, you might all of a sudden have all these people in your office telling you their horror stories with PC and how relieved they are not to have to put up with him any longer.

[MadMadge43]

You might be surprised.   Usually, most people want someone fired long before the boss is willing to do it.   If/when it happens, you might all of a sudden have all these people in your office telling you their horror stories with PC and how relieved they are not to have to put up with him any longer.

Except one of the girls on the production team asked me about it, she said, "I heard Deven was in trouble, what's going on". I know it came from their boss that really likes him. Actually I would only probably get trouble from my counterpart in production.  But she's trouble enough.

[ShadesOfGrey]

 ahh - dont discuss the situation with this woman! It can only lead to bad things!! But I would advise keeping a paper trail of written warnings/log of discussions in his file (and a personal log, if that is not an option) because, for some reason, it can be VERY hard to fire people...

good luck, I hope the situation gets better for you. 

[Tabris]

"I heard Deven was in trouble, what's going on"

MadMadge43: "Really? Where did you hear that?"
Nosy: Uh...I was just wondering if he was in trouble.
MM: Where would you have heard something like that? Are people making up gossip again?
Nosy: So he's not in trouble?
MM: See, this is exactly why office gossip is horrible! Now no matter what I say, you're not going to believe he's either in trouble or he isn't in trouble. Of course it's a matter solely between me and Devin and BigBoss whether he's in trouble, but you're going to have that sneaking suspicion in your mind no matter what happens from now on.
Nosy: Uh, no, I just meant--
MM: And even worse, you're also going to doubt whomever said that to you, and when you go back to whomever it was, he or she is going to assure you he or she was telling the truth, and then you're going to wonder WHO you can trust in this office!
Nosy: I never thought of it that way. I was just worried about Devin.
MM: I know, and it's very sweet of you. I just hate this office gossip garbage. Hey, by the way, diid you get my email about the design proposals? I'm sorry I only gave you three weeks to look them over, but you'll see when you get into them how hard it's going to be to choose the best one. I think they production people outdid themselves this time.

Etc.