Silence after sending friend an email

[BettyDraper]

Just a question for the OP, has she ever refused to share other recipes?

No, I have always been quite happy to share.

And have very gracefully taken no as an answer several times before.  Though the person saying no is usually kind enough to offer a reason.  Mostly the reasons are family secret.  One was because she didn't want it ever to find its way back to her MIL and the only way to be sure was to never give it out.

I don't think you understood the question Marcel was asking.

Sorry.  Not that I know.  I have not asked her for any other recipes and do not know if others have asked her for recipes and been outright refused.

Is she generous in other ways?  Do you like her as a friend for reasons other than her cupcakes?

Dotty, maybe you don't mean it this way, but I found your last question rather snarky.   This thread is about her cupcakes and the lack of response but there is nothing to suggest she liked her for ONLY her cupcakes.  Otherwise she could have phrased it as "this person I know". 

I don't see it as snarky; I was wondering the same thing.  For a "friend," the cupcake maker certainly is being cast in a negative light rather than being given the benefit of the doubt. 

[Aeris]

The implication that someone is not generous because she doesn't wish to dole out the fruits of her own creative labors is somewhat discouraging. 

This is not the case in this situation. She got the recipe from a published book. 

Well, it still took effort on the cupcake-maker's part to locate the recipe, and perhaps she does some creative tweaking.

But even if she buys the cupcakes from local bakeries and transfers them into her own serving dishes it's still rude to put her on the spot when she's clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries.  This is one of those threads where it would be really helpful to hear her side of the story.   

Where in the world are you getting that the friend "clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries". The OP indicated that the friend responded slightly obliquely when a near stranger hinted at the recipe, and then when complimented and hinted at the friend doesn't leap to in full public view and spout the recipe on the spot.

This hardly qualifies as someone clearly signalling that any and all cupcake inquiries, of any sort, and from any friend, no matter how close, are unwelcome. If I heard my best friend fail to volunteer their recipe to a near stranger's hinting around, I would never dream that meant it was obvious that I, their best friend, would be utterly remiss in making a direct request.

It's a massive leap.

And the fact that the friend directly requests recipes of the OP actually weighs on the side of making it seem like the friend would be amenable to a two-way-recipe-sharing relationship.

The OP was in no way rude to ask for the recipe.

[stargazer]

Just a question for the OP, has she ever refused to share other recipes?

No, I have always been quite happy to share.

And have very gracefully taken no as an answer several times before.  Though the person saying no is usually kind enough to offer a reason.  Mostly the reasons are family secret.  One was because she didn't want it ever to find its way back to her MIL and the only way to be sure was to never give it out.

I don't think you understood the question Marcel was asking.

Sorry.  Not that I know.  I have not asked her for any other recipes and do not know if others have asked her for recipes and been outright refused.

Is she generous in other ways?  Do you like her as a friend for reasons other than her cupcakes?

Dotty, maybe you don't mean it this way, but I found your last question rather snarky.   This thread is about her cupcakes and the lack of response but there is nothing to suggest she liked her for ONLY her cupcakes.  Otherwise she could have phrased it as "this person I know". 

I don't see it as snarky; I was wondering the same thing.  For a "friend," the cupcake maker certainly is being cast in a negative light rather than being given the benefit of the doubt. 

The OP has already mentioned she doesn't mean "grinch" as some people took it.  And her emails to her friend have been nothing but polite and friendly (and said "no" is okay!).  Honestly I am not sure what she expected out of that question - a response of "oh you're right I was just using her for cupcakes"?  It just wasn't necessary at all.

[DottyG]

Dotty, maybe you don't mean it this way, but I found your last question rather snarky.   This thread is about her cupcakes and the lack of response but there is nothing to suggest she liked her for ONLY her cupcakes.  Otherwise she could have phrased it as "this person I know".  

Not meant to be snarky at all.  It's a question that was posed earlier in another way by another poster.  What I'm asking is if this friend is generous in ways other than the recipes.  Because, if she's not, then that puts a whole new light on the issue.  If she is, than that changes things in another way.  The response to this question could be, at the core, part of the problem.  And, if so, there are other ways that the OP may need to address the friendship.

I'm sorry if you thought it was a snarky question.  It was meant to be a genuine one.

[DottyG]

a response of "oh you're right I was just using her for cupcakes"?

With all due respect, please do not put words - or meanings - into my posts that I did not say.  Thanks!

[BettyDraper]

The implication that someone is not generous because she doesn't wish to dole out the fruits of her own creative labors is somewhat discouraging. 

This is not the case in this situation. She got the recipe from a published book. 

Well, it still took effort on the cupcake-maker's part to locate the recipe, and perhaps she does some creative tweaking.

But even if she buys the cupcakes from local bakeries and transfers them into her own serving dishes it's still rude to put her on the spot when she's clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries.  This is one of those threads where it would be really helpful to hear her side of the story.   

Where in the world are you getting that the friend "clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries". The OP indicated that the friend responded slightly obliquely when a near stranger hinted at the recipe, and then when complimented and hinted at the friend doesn't leap to in full public view and spout the recipe on the spot.

This hardly qualifies as someone clearly signalling that any and all cupcake inquiries, of any sort, and from any friend, no matter how close, are unwelcome. If I heard my best friend fail to volunteer their recipe to a near stranger's hinting around, I would never dream that meant it was obvious that I, their best friend, would be utterly remiss in making a direct request.

It's a massive leap.

And the fact that the friend directly requests recipes of the OP actually weighs on the side of making it seem like the friend would be amenable to a two-way-recipe-sharing rel@tionship.

The OP was in no way rude to ask for the recipe.

The OP herself said the baker has been coy in the past about the recipe requests.  It's not a massive leap.  Perhaps it wasn't rude to ask for the recipe (that word is bandied around quite a bit here) but it was gauche and thoughtless given what the OP already sensed about the recipe in question. 

[stargazer]

a response of "oh you're right I was just using her for cupcakes"?

With all due respect, please do not put words - or meanings - into my posts that I did not say.  Thanks!

Well, honestly, until you explained, I really could not figure out what you expected out of that comment.  It seemed to be baiting.  I thank you for explaining it more above so I know that is not the case.

[Katelyn]

Do you like her as a friend for reasons other than her cupcakes?

I take it from some of your responses to my thread that you are not my newest fan, and that is okay.  I understand that I am new here, but I want to say that this comment feels a little mean.  

I explained that we are in the same social circle and that we saw each other every week.  Without going into details on what sort of social group, it would make sense that we obviously have some things in common.  I mentioned that I thought we were close friends.  Yes, I have many things in common with her and other than this situation, we get along very very well.  

I may have unknowingly stumbled into difficult territory - asking a person who perhaps does not share recipes to do just that - asking a person who maybe has trouble with boundaries - I'm not sure.

Edited because I missed an entire phrase.  Darn typing with little sleep.

[ydpubs]

I actually do think there is something wrong with *asking* other people for their recipes and then refusing to share any of your own.*  To me it just seems selfish and entitled and greedy to expect information to flow one way.  Like asking someone for a favor, full well knowing you would refuse to do them any favors if the situation was reversed, kwim?  If it was one specific recipe the hypothetical person didn't want to share, I wouldn't really have a problem with it - but refusing to share *all* recipes while asking others to share just doesn't feel right to me.

I really do feel for you, CoffeeKat.  I think a lot of times its the not knowing, if you had an answer, its easier to say, "aww that stinks, oh well I guess I should spend some time looking up other cupcake recipes" and move on with your life and forward in the friendship as opposed to the elephant in the room of a non-answer.  I think deliberately ignoring an email request (especially one phrased to allow you an out like "I understand if you don't want to") is rude and hurtful.  It reeks of "you aren't important enough to me to figure out a polite way to decline - so I'll just ignore you".  I understand Friend may have had a bad experience with someone who reacted badly to a polite decline.  But its not fair to take that out on anyone else that asks.  Its also seems a bit unfair to assume that someone not catching onto your hints and directly asking you a question is doing it out of any malice.  Sure, maybe CoffeeKat should have known her friend was secretive about her recipes, but I think its reasonable to think that geographical distance or being closer than just generic people she'd heard once ask might make a difference.  I guess I just don't get this idea that asking for a recipe is so offensive it deserves being ignored.  

For what its worth, I think you are making the right decision to give yourself some time before you contact her again.  You need some time to lick your wounds and heal before you continue on and thats fine.  It's certainly better than feeling hurt and ignored and bottling it up inside and pretending nothing is wrong until you build up resentment or explode in anger over something petty.  

Oh and good luck with the cupcakes!

*Now, I know that might not be the case in this particular situation, I'm just speaking generally.

PS Out of curiosity, could someone better explain the visceral reaction to the term "Grinch"?  To me it has always just meant someone who puts a crimp in someone's fun - intentionally or not.  I've even heard it applied to bad weather and such.  So calling someone who has caused you disappointment (even if its totally within their right - such as by not giving you a recipe) a grinch isn't really bad or mean - it's more like saying "so-and-so bummed me out".  Clearly some people find it pretty offensive though, even when not used to someones face, and I wonder why?  


ETA: Wow! 10 posts while I typed that!  I'd just like to address this

IMO, the OP has been given the answer to her question.  In fact, she's been given in when the first email she sent was not answered.  Her friend does not want to share her recipe, which is her prerogative.  Simple as that.  Asking a second time doesn't change the answer.

Some people do not like to say 'no' and the fact that the friend beandipped when asked for the recipe before suggests that.  It sends a message loud and clear that she does not plan on giving out her recipe and the OP is choosing not to pay attention.

Personally, I think ending a friendship because a friend wouldn't share a recipe is pretty rough, but then if the friend found out she was being called a Grinch, she may be onto something and doesn't really care to be friends with the OP either.

The OP was actually encouraged by this board to send another email and give her friend the benefit of the doubt of perhaps not receiving it.  Replying to the email and not addressing the question of the recipe *might* be beandip (however I really think that barring extraordinarily rude requests one should acknowledge them and then pass the beandip), but not replying to the email could mean a million things - from "I hate you for even asking and don't respect you enough to acknowledge what I see to be an incredibly rude e-mail" to "email, what email? stupid technology, I never got it!"

POD to the bolded. The OP's friend had not problem asking for and receiving a recipe from the OP and is now ignoring the OP completely. I say the friend is very rude to ignore the request. And what I mean by rude is the not answering two emails at all and straight out saying no, not the fact that the friend does not want to share the recipe.

[Katelyn]

Wow, there were a bunch of other replies while I typed.

[DottyG]

I take it from some of your responses to my thread that you are not my newest fan

I regret that you took that from my posts.  It wasn't meant to be mean at all.  Please read my explanation of that question that I gave above.  It wasn't a mean question.  I'm, seriously, asking you this in order to help you with this friend and where I think you should go from here with the rel@tionship.  Depending on how she is with other things in the friendship, the advice could change.

I do apologize if you're thinking I don't like you.  That's not my intent at all.

ETA (because I missed this when I read your post a minute ago), but I'm not really asking if you get along with her (I already assumed y'all did that).  I'm asking if she's a generous person, in general.  Other than the recipe thing, does she seem to be a generous person?

[Merry Mrs Martin]

Just a question for the OP, has she ever refused to share other recipes?

No, I have always been quite happy to share.

And have very gracefully taken no as an answer several times before.  Though the person saying no is usually kind enough to offer a reason.  Mostly the reasons are family secret.  One was because she didn't want it ever to find its way back to her MIL and the only way to be sure was to never give it out.

I don't think you understood the question Marcel was asking.

Sorry.  Not that I know.  I have not asked her for any other recipes and do not know if others have asked her for recipes and been outright refused.

Is she generous in other ways?  Do you like her as a friend for reasons other than her cupcakes?

Actually I think it's pertinent if OP's friend accepted recipes and gave others in return vs Op's friend accepted recipes and has never to Op knowledge given one out.   It's not abnormal to be annoyed to find out your friend has a "neither a borrower or lender policy " but is willing to bend on the borrower bit.    I also understand " the best cupcakes ever" might be the recipe equivalent of asking to borrowing someone's entire lifesaving.   Feeling a friend does not reciprocate is pretty damaging. ( I'm responding to multiply posts about OP's feeling not just the above quoted )

I also don't think everyone thinks of any "best ever " recipe as something so beyond sharing It's rude to ask.

Was friend rude to not even acknowledge the request I think so.   I personally hate coy "no" but even the coyest response would have been better then nothing.

dotty you made the point that people can pick up on feeling , and that possible OP's friend pick up on OP's feeling she was a little bit entitled to this recipe.  Normally I agree but I do think E-mail can hide those nuances much better then face to face conversation , so
I think it's possible that OP asked is such a way that her friend did not pick up on how OP would feel.

[DottyG]

I think it's possible that OP asked is such a way that her friend did not pick up on how OP would feel.

Quite possible.  And, hopefully so!

[Aeris]

The implication that someone is not generous because she doesn't wish to dole out the fruits of her own creative labors is somewhat discouraging. 

This is not the case in this situation. She got the recipe from a published book. 

Well, it still took effort on the cupcake-maker's part to locate the recipe, and perhaps she does some creative tweaking.

But even if she buys the cupcakes from local bakeries and transfers them into her own serving dishes it's still rude to put her on the spot when she's clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries.  This is one of those threads where it would be really helpful to hear her side of the story.   

Where in the world are you getting that the friend "clearly signaled in the past that she doesn't welcome cupcake inquiries". The OP indicated that the friend responded slightly obliquely when a near stranger hinted at the recipe, and then when complimented and hinted at the friend doesn't leap to in full public view and spout the recipe on the spot.

This hardly qualifies as someone clearly signalling that any and all cupcake inquiries, of any sort, and from any friend, no matter how close, are unwelcome. If I heard my best friend fail to volunteer their recipe to a near stranger's hinting around, I would never dream that meant it was obvious that I, their best friend, would be utterly remiss in making a direct request.

It's a massive leap.

And the fact that the friend directly requests recipes of the OP actually weighs on the side of making it seem like the friend would be amenable to a two-way-recipe-sharing rel@tionship.

The OP was in no way rude to ask for the recipe.

The OP herself said the baker has been coy in the past about the recipe requests.  It's not a massive leap.  Perhaps it wasn't rude to ask for the recipe (that word is bandied around quite a bit here) but it was gauche and thoughtless given what the OP already sensed about the recipe in question. 

How is it 'gauche and thoughtless' to think it may be possible that a person would respond differently to a direct request in private by a close friend than they would to a hinted exchange by a near stranger in public? They're completely different circumstances.

I hear 'less close' friends get requests refused all the time by friends that I know would happily respond in the positive to the same request from me. It's not unreasonable at all for the OP to think it was possible she would get a different response than a near stranger in a public gathering.

If the OP had ever heard the friend say "I just don't give that recipe out", as a direct and universal response, then it would be 'gauche and thoughtless'. I told a friend once that we don't let anyone piggyback on our zipcar account for legal reasons - if anyone else asked, after hearing that, I would consider it possibly thoughtless, as I've responded universally. But if I sidestepped a favor-request from not-so-close-friend Mary, that doesn't at all necessarily mean I won't consider the same favor-request from very-close-friend Amy. I certainly wouldn't consider Amy 'gauche and thoughtless' to ask, just because she happened to be in the same room of 20 people when I vaguely sidestepped Mary. Talk about expecting people to read minds.

[Two Ravens]

The OP herself said the baker has been coy in the past about the recipe requests.  It's not a massive leap.  Perhaps it wasn't rude to ask for the recipe (that word is bandied around quite a bit here) but it was gauche and thoughtless given what the OP already sensed about the recipe in question. 

She was coy when strangers asked.  The OP thought they were on closer terms.  How is it gauche and thoughtless to ask a friend what they have asked you for in the past?  That is extremely harsh.