Author Topic: Silence after sending friend an email  (Read 16969 times)

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Aeris

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2010, 06:00:34 PM »
I'm reminded of a request that rather shocked me. Cloud and I have a zipcar account. Dear FlightyFriend asked if we could rent a car on it, and allow her to drive it for a camping trip - she'd pay the costs of course. ::) I nearly gagged when I read the email. But I still responded, kindly in the negative. She didn't think she was out to lunch, she's just doesn't think things through all the way.

I would never have ignored her, crazy as the request was.

Scuba_Dog

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2010, 06:07:18 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?
More like:
"A woman in one of my social groups asked me if she could borrow my mink coat .  They've been around me enough to know that I don't loan this particular coat out. She has let me borrow a wool pullover once.  I've side-stepped the question a number of times in her presence and am always coy when people talk about how great it would look with their favorite dress.  I feel shocked that she would ask, and very put on the spot.  Do I have to respond?"

I would say Nope.  An email - like an invitation - is not a summons.   


That's a great analogy!  I see it the same way.

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BettyDraper

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2010, 06:12:00 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?
More like:
"A woman in one of my social groups asked me if she could borrow my mink coat .  They've been around me enough to know that I don't loan this particular coat out. She has let me borrow a wool pullover once.  I've side-stepped the question a number of times in her presence and am always coy when people talk about how great it would look with their favorite dress.  I feel shocked that she would ask, and very put on the spot.  Do I have to respond?"

I would say Nope.  An email - like an invitation - is not a summons.   


That's a great analogy!  I see it the same way.



I do too.  Sometimes pretending not to see someone's faux pas is the kinder course of action.  It's not as though the OP asked to use a tourniquet and was ignored.

Scuba_Dog

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2010, 06:16:10 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?
More like:
"A woman in one of my social groups asked me if she could borrow my mink coat .  They've been around me enough to know that I don't loan this particular coat out. She has let me borrow a wool pullover once.  I've side-stepped the question a number of times in her presence and am always coy when people talk about how great it would look with their favorite dress.  I feel shocked that she would ask, and very put on the spot.  Do I have to respond?"

I would say Nope.  An email - like an invitation - is not a summons.   


That's a great analogy!  I see it the same way.



I do too.  Sometimes pretending not to see someone's faux pas is the kinder course of action.  It's not as though the OP asked to use a tourniquet and was ignored.

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Two Ravens

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2010, 06:21:43 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?
More like:
"A woman in one of my social groups asked me if she could borrow my mink coat .  They've been around me enough to know that I don't loan this particular coat out. She has let me borrow a wool pullover once.  I've side-stepped the question a number of times in her presence and am always coy when people talk about how great it would look with their favorite dress.  I feel shocked that she would ask, and very put on the spot.  Do I have to respond?"

I would say Nope.  An email - like an invitation - is not a summons.   


That's a great analogy!  I see it the same way.



I do too.  Sometimes pretending not to see someone's faux pas is the kinder course of action.  It's not as though the OP asked to use a tourniquet and was ignored.

How is it kind if a person does not know they commited this faux pas  ???  I am afraid I don't understand this reasoning.

Surianne

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #215 on: January 06, 2010, 06:28:39 PM »
I think, too, I still don't see it as a faux pas.  It was a polite request for a recipe.  I don't think it was completely rude to not reply (I am terrible at replying to all of my emails!  More from memory than anything else) but I think it would be nicer to reply with a quick "Sorry, I actually don't give out that recipe." 

RainhaDoTexugo

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #216 on: January 06, 2010, 06:36:10 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?
More like:
"A woman in one of my social groups asked me if she could borrow my mink coat .  They've been around me enough to know that I don't loan this particular coat out. She has let me borrow a wool pullover once.  I've side-stepped the question a number of times in her presence and am always coy when people talk about how great it would look with their favorite dress.  I feel shocked that she would ask, and very put on the spot.  Do I have to respond?"

I would say Nope.  An email - like an invitation - is not a summons.  


That's a great analogy!  I see it the same way.



I do too.  Sometimes pretending not to see someone's faux pas is the kinder course of action.  It's not as though the OP asked to use a tourniquet and was ignored.

How is it kind if a person does not know they commited this faux pas  ???  I am afraid I don't understand this reasoning.

I agree.  It's kind to ignore it if someone passes gas, or calls you by the wrong name or something.  Those are things that are clearly, in our culture, things that you're not expected to do.  In fact, the OP was kind enough to do just that with the first email, and assume that it wasn't delivered, and give the friend an out for not answering when she should have, and the friend is STILL answering her with rudeness.  

I really don't see how the OP's request is a faux pas, at all, in any way.  Just because something makes someone uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's rude.  Just because Betty is uncomfortable seeing women in bikinis, doesn't mean that it's rude for Jane to wear a bikini at a place where swimsuits are appropriate.

There's just nothing rude about asking a friend (or even a stranger) for a recipe, unless you've already asked that person and been turned down.  Having seen someone give a coy answer to someone else in very different circumstances just doesn't count.  If a near stranger at a party asks me to borrow $5, and I say no, and BF happens to be in the same room, does that mean BF can never ask to borrow $5?  I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect all of your friends to read your mind and know whether or not you're willing to do something.  It's a perfectly natural assumption to think that if you've shared recipes with someone in the past, they might be willing to share one with you.  

It would have been rude if the OP had sent an email that said "Give me your recipe."  Or if she'd sent a second email saying "Well, you're obviously ignoring me, over a stupid recipe!  You're so selfish!"  But really, if you're sooooooo incredibly sensitive about your supersecret recipes that you can't even bear the idea of sending a polite "no" to someone when asked, perhaps it's time to stop cooking for anyone but yourself and your family.  If someone can't even send a simple no, by email, when given a chance to say no, to a good friend, for a small, normal favor, then honestly, she has some growing up to do.  If she doesn't want to share something that's often shared (and despite insistence to the contrary, mink coats are not often shared), it's on her to learn to say no.  I'm amazed, frankly, at how many people are advocating such a major snub in reaction to a simple, honest, polite request.

And it sounds to me like the friend is pretty good in general about replying to email, so I don't think the "maybe she was busy" excuse cuts it.  Even if she is busy, when I get a second request on something, my reaction is usually something like "Oh crud, I forgot to answer.  How rude of me," and I'll send out a quick line, at least to let the person know that I saw the email and was working on it.

I do agree that the OP should drop it at this point.  Clearly, the friend is more concerned with not having the slightest second of discomfort than with treating the OP with a bit of basic human respect, and I think that shows a LOT about the friendship.

evely28

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2010, 06:38:47 PM »
I'm surprised so many people think it's perfectly acceptable to just ignore the email.

If a poster came here and said "My best friend just emailed me asking if I might be able to pick up her mail while she's on vacation next week. I really don't want to, but don't know how to say it. (And incidentally, my friend has catsit for me while I'm on vacation in the past.) Can I just ignore the email and pretend it never happened?" would you tell this hypothetical poster that they were perfectly polite to do so?

I don't see it as reciprocity in the OP. This is a recipe someone is known for. They may have been coy in the beginning or bean dipped or said they got it from a well known book and didn't add that they changed things. No. I wouldn't tell someone my special recipe unless I gave ALL the things that made it what it is. I wouldn't set them up for disappointment that the recipe did not turn out like mine.

I don't fault the OP for asking and yet I do think the OP should see that the non-reply to her specific request is an answer. Especially since she has said that if her friend does'nt give it to her, she would feel bad. It's not OK in my book to say someone can decline my request, but then I'll be hurt. Isn't this part of friendship, that I may ask a friend for something and yet I really do have to give them room to say no for any reason and respect that.

I think the OP came on here initially with the view point that since she shares recipes, every one should. It's quite an eye opener to see the myriad of reasons as to why some people don't.


DottyG

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2010, 06:40:50 PM »
if you're sooooooo incredibly sensitive about your supersecret recipes that you can't even bear the idea of sending a polite "no" to someone when asked, perhaps it's time to stop cooking for anyone but yourself and your family.

Rain, that kinda comes across as snarky.  Did you mean it to be such?


RainhaDoTexugo

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2010, 06:47:51 PM »
if you're sooooooo incredibly sensitive about your supersecret recipes that you can't even bear the idea of sending a polite "no" to someone when asked, perhaps it's time to stop cooking for anyone but yourself and your family.

Rain, that kinda comes across as snarky.  Did you mean it to be such?



It might be a bit snarky, but I stand behind it 100%.  If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.  If you can't stand sharing, and can't stand even saying no politely, you shouldn't let yourself become known for a recipe that people are likely going to ask for.  I can respect people not wanting to share recipes, and I don't think that should stop them from sharing the food, but if you can't even bother to say no, it's time to reassess whether cooking for others is a good idea.

Especially since she has said that if her friend does'nt give it to her, she would feel bad. It's not OK in my book to say someone can decline my request, but then I'll be hurt. Isn't this part of friendship, that I may ask a friend for something and yet I really do have to give them room to say no for any reason and respect that.

It's quite possible to respect an answer, and still be disappointed.  I can respect that a particular school didn't hire me, because I didn't fit the job requirements, but still be hurt and disappointed that it happened.  The OP is a human being, with feelings, and sometimes our feelings don't fit the perfect ideal of how we "should" feel.

familyfun

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #220 on: January 06, 2010, 06:50:36 PM »
On a side note, when I ask someone a favor and they don't want to do it, I *very much* appreciate receiving no response at all to a direct "No."  It just doesn't smart as much and I prefer to maintain the polite fiction that they did "hear" me rather than thinking I overstepping a boundary and made them uncomfortable.
Perhaps because I do not personally enjoy telling anyone no about anything.


This may be true for you, but you should consider by some of the responses to this thread, that many other people will be much more insulted by being ignored than by a direct "no."

And isn't the converse true, that some will be more offended by a direct no than being sidestepped?  Again, I don't see the OP's friend as ignoring her, just as sidestepping the cupcake question as she responds and communicates with her on non-cupcake things.  If she were ignoring the OP, she wouldn't be commenting on her FB posts.  Since there's not a universal standard on this, I'd chalk it up to differences in communication style vs. rudeness.  

Personally, I don't quite get the refusal to give out recipes.  I take a request for one of mine as a compliment and I'm more than happy to share.  In fact, I got most of my recipes by asking others or from books, websites or articles.  But for some of the reasons we've read here, some people don't want to share.  I usually request a recipe after sampling a food.  "This is delicious, may I have the recipe?"  The only time I follow up on it is if someone has said sure and I don't receive it.  I would make one contact to "remind" them.  Such as "[insert name of dish] was delicious, can you please send me the recipe when you have a moment."  If I didn't hear back after that, I would drop it.

Getting back to the OP's situation, while I agree a direct no would be better than sidestepping as it would clear up confusion, it's not necessarily rude.  I don't think either the OP or her friend are being rude, they both have very different communciation styles.  Had she ceased ALL communicaton (e.g. not commenting on her posts, etc.), then yes, she would be rude.  Sidestepping is a whole different ball game than the cut direct.  Sidestepping is not the same as ignoring or silence or the cut direct.  

if you're sooooooo incredibly sensitive about your supersecret recipes that you can't even bear the idea of sending a polite "no" to someone when asked, perhaps it's time to stop cooking for anyone but yourself and your family.

Rain, that kinda comes across as snarky.  Did you mean it to be such?



It might be a bit snarky, but I stand behind it 100%.  If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.  If you can't stand sharing, and can't stand even saying no politely, you shouldn't let yourself become known for a recipe that people are likely going to ask for.  I can respect people not wanting to share recipes, and I don't think that should stop them from sharing the food, but if you can't even bother to say no, it's time to reassess whether cooking for others is a good idea.

Especially since she has said that if her friend does'nt give it to her, she would feel bad. It's not OK in my book to say someone can decline my request, but then I'll be hurt. Isn't this part of friendship, that I may ask a friend for something and yet I really do have to give them room to say no for any reason and respect that.

It's quite possible to respect an answer, and still be disappointed.  I can respect that a particular school didn't hire me, because I didn't fit the job requirements, but still be hurt and disappointed that it happened.  The OP is a human being, with feelings, and sometimes our feelings don't fit the perfect ideal of how we "should" feel.

Some people have a really hard time hearing no & get quite persistent about it.  While I drop a recipe request once the person doesn't say sure or yes to my request, some people will hound the cook after her or she has clearly said no.  And they can get quite obnoxious about badgering the person, particularly if they are from, the "I'm willing to share, so should everyone else be" school.  She may very well have had some bad experiences with saying a direct no and may prefer to sidestep as a result for all we know.

And great, participating in this thread means my New Year's Resolution is going to be doing direct battle with the proximity of my office to a Crumbs cupcake shop!  Guess which one is going to win!  Cupcakes here I come!  :D

« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:59:00 PM by familyfun »

CluelessBride

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #221 on: January 06, 2010, 06:55:22 PM »

I don't fault the OP for asking and yet I do think the OP should see that the non-reply to her specific request is an answer. Especially since she has said that if her friend does'nt give it to her, she would feel bad. It's not OK in my book to say someone can decline my request, but then I'll be hurt. Isn't this part of friendship, that I may ask a friend for something and yet I really do have to give them room to say no for any reason and respect that.

I think the OP came on here initially with the view point that since she shares recipes, every one should. It's quite an eye opener to see the myriad of reasons as to why some people don't.


The OP has said she would feel sad if she didn't get the recipe.  Not that she would be angry with her friend or feel like it was unfair, she would feel sad.  As long as she doesn't pout or let her friend know that she is disappointed, thats fine.

Let's say I really want a soda, but I don't have any change from the vending machine.  I ask Sue if I can borrow a dollar.  Sue says no.  I politely say, ok no problem.  And move on.  I'm sad I didn't get my soda (and thirsty!), but that doesn't make me rude.  And it doesn't mean I can't ask for something if a negative answer would make me sad.  I just need to be aware not to express that negativity to the person I'm asking.  We are allowed to have feelings, its how we express them to others that etiquette controls.



marcel

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #222 on: January 06, 2010, 07:00:16 PM »
Off course, there is still the posibility that she really wants to give the OP the recipe.

Writing down recipes takes time. In this case, it requires a lot of explaining about cooking/baking, because, as I said in earlier posts, If the methods and materials used are not correct, it very likely will not work. Maybe she is trying to write the recipe, and doesn't succeed.
This means that she doesn't want to say no, but if she never succeeds in writing the recipe down, she will never send the OP a reply.
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jimithing

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #223 on: January 06, 2010, 07:08:45 PM »
if you're sooooooo incredibly sensitive about your supersecret recipes that you can't even bear the idea of sending a polite "no" to someone when asked, perhaps it's time to stop cooking for anyone but yourself and your family.

Rain, that kinda comes across as snarky.  Did you mean it to be such?



It might be a bit snarky, but I stand behind it 100%.  If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.  If you can't stand sharing, and can't stand even saying no politely, you shouldn't let yourself become known for a recipe that people are likely going to ask for.  I can respect people not wanting to share recipes, and I don't think that should stop them from sharing the food, but if you can't even bother to say no, it's time to reassess whether cooking for others is a good idea.

Especially since she has said that if her friend does'nt give it to her, she would feel bad. It's not OK in my book to say someone can decline my request, but then I'll be hurt. Isn't this part of friendship, that I may ask a friend for something and yet I really do have to give them room to say no for any reason and respect that.

It's quite possible to respect an answer, and still be disappointed.  I can respect that a particular school didn't hire me, because I didn't fit the job requirements, but still be hurt and disappointed that it happened.  The OP is a human being, with feelings, and sometimes our feelings don't fit the perfect ideal of how we "should" feel.

I do agree with this. I know that if I make a dish for people there is a chance I may be asked for the recipe. Of course, I don't have to share it, but if I'm so at a loss to figure out how eo even provide the simplest response then I probably shouldn't be sharing my homecooked food with people.

Hanna

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Re: Silence after sending friend an email
« Reply #224 on: January 06, 2010, 07:09:53 PM »
Off course, there is still the posibility that she really wants to give the OP the recipe.

Writing down recipes takes time. In this case, it requires a lot of explaining about cooking/baking, because, as I said in earlier posts, If the methods and materials used are not correct, it very likely will not work. Maybe she is trying to write the recipe, and doesn't succeed.
This means that she doesn't want to say no, but if she never succeeds in writing the recipe down, she will never send the OP a reply.
Excellent point!