From EHell Blog: Bad Company Corrupts Good Morals

[Starchasm]

That's where I'm stuck: what possible musician could the upright, moral, family men like that the OP's swearing, irreverent girlfriend also liked?  Who has concerts at which children are acceptable?  I'm stuck.

That's where I'm stuck too.

Regardless, the guy should have done something to try to distance himself from his girlfriend and friends, even if it was asking for them to be thrown out.

[hyzenthlay]

I'm not sure why "backup dancers" implies that it's necessarily one of them. One might as well say that the fact that it was a concert could invoke visioins of "Madonna, Spears or Lady Gaga".

They are all known for elaborate stage productions. I think Madonna was one of the first to utilize a large number of back up dancers, in part because she was at the forefront of musicians dancing their way through a show.

You don't have to agree, but to me back up dancers sound like an element in an elaborate rock production.

[Twik]

I'm not sure why "backup dancers" implies that it's necessarily one of them. One might as well say that the fact that it was a concert could invoke visioins of "Madonna, Spears or Lady Gaga".

They are all known for elaborate stage productions. I think Madonna was one of the first to utilize a large number of back up dancers, in part because she was at the forefront of musicians dancing their way through a show.

You don't have to agree, but to me back up dancers sound like an element in an elaborate rock production.

I can remember backup dancers WAY before Madonna. They didn't even have to be part of "elaborate stage productions".

[Merry Mrs Martin]

       Am I the only person that thinks this was a total setup by the GF and her friends as vindictive punishment for some perceived sin of the LW? 

[Twik]

       Am I the only person that thinks this was a total setup by the GF and her friends as vindictive punishment for some perceived sin of the LW? 

If it wasn't, I'd hate to see what they'd do if they WANTED to be vindictive! 

[Vegemite Girl]

I have to admit, this story had me scratching my head.

On one hand, the *actions* of the girlfriend and her friends were horribly inappropriate, but I fail to see what was wrong with their mode of dress. I went to a chamber music concert last night and sitting near me was a woman with dreadlocks and multiple facial piercings. Should she have been thrown out, or looked down on, simply for that?

I also think that a company that would fire an employee because of something their friends did outside of the workplace and at an event where (I assume) no-one was officially representing the company is a place to be avoided like the plague. I think the letter writer is better off without the boorish girlfriend *and* the controlling boss.

[DottyG]

This went beyond just "something their friends did outside of the workplace", though.

Shrieking, screaming, spilling food and drink on everyone around them, shouting sexual comments as first the warm-up act and then the main performer take the stage, my girlfriend and her three friends spent the entire event acting as inappropriately as they possibly could without getting kicked out by security.  During the evening one of my girlfriend’s friends struck the owner of the company with his event program and told him to move his “F****** fat basketball head”. Another made a point of leaning forward and shouting in the account manager’s wife’s ear that he really wanted to have sex with the back up dancers on the stage (not in that tame of language).

Unless the LW made it clear that he was not a part of all of this (and was appalled at all of it), it could have very easily appeared that he was supporting what was going on.

The All-Knowing Wise One (aka Mom) always taught me "Birds of a feather, flock together."  If this LW didn't have the sense to appear to be a different bird, I can see how the boss didn't differentiate and thought he was in the middle of it, too.

[Vegemite Girl]

This went beyond just "something their friends did outside of the workplace", though.

Shrieking, screaming, spilling food and drink on everyone around them, shouting sexual comments as first the warm-up act and then the main performer take the stage, my girlfriend and her three friends spent the entire event acting as inappropriately as they possibly could without getting kicked out by security.  During the evening one of my girlfriend’s friends struck the owner of the company with his event program and told him to move his “F****** fat basketball head”. Another made a point of leaning forward and shouting in the account manager’s wife’s ear that he really wanted to have sex with the back up dancers on the stage (not in that tame of language).

Unless the LW made it clear that he was not a part of all of this (and was appalled at all of it), it could have very easily appeared that he was supporting what was going on.

The All-Knowing Wise One (aka Mom) always taught me "Birds of a feather, flock together."  If this LW didn't have the sense to appear to be a different bird, I can see how the boss didn't differentiate and thought he was in the middle of it, too.

Even so, the boss should be judging employees purely on their work performances, not how they spend their free time. Would I be OK to fire someone who protested outside abortion clinics, for example? Just because you may find your employees actions on their private time despicable, you have no right to fire them for it.

[hyzenthlay]

Even so, the boss should be judging employees purely on their work performances, not how they spend their free time. Would I be OK to fire someone who protested outside abortion clinics, for example? Just because you may find your employees actions on their private time despicable, you have no right to fire them for it.

Firstly that line is blurred when the employee accepts the invitation to a social event.

Secondly companies absolutely can and do judge people on their out of work activities, and 'acting in a manner that would reflect badly on the company' has been a fireable offense in most of the professional jobs I have held.

My first employer added it to their manual when an accountant was moon-lighting as an exotic dancer and came face to face with a client.

No one should be judged on a political or religious activity, and firing for those actions is usually a civil suit waiting to happen. But terminating someone for acting like a rear end in public is perfectly legal in at-will states in the US.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

I have to admit, this story had me scratching my head.

On one hand, the *actions* of the girlfriend and her friends were horribly inappropriate, but I fail to see what was wrong with their mode of dress. I went to a chamber music concert last night and sitting near me was a woman with dreadlocks and multiple facial piercings. Should she have been thrown out, or looked down on, simply for that?

I also think that a company that would fire an employee because of something their friends did outside of the workplace and at an event where (I assume) no-one was officially representing the company is a place to be avoided like the plague. I think the letter writer is better off without the boorish girlfriend *and* the controlling boss.

It was a quasi work function, he appears to have asked that his guest respect that. They may not have been  dressed for a concert but they were inappropriately. 

Again he wasn't on his off time, if I go to the company pinic ,retreat or any other event the company pays for and multiple employees are at, it's at least a partial work function.
Company often have blocks of season tickets , they may give a few to employees but the pepeople next to you may be clients.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

This went beyond just "something their friends did outside of the workplace", though.

Shrieking, screaming, spilling food and drink on everyone around them, shouting sexual comments as first the warm-up act and then the main performer take the stage, my girlfriend and her three friends spent the entire event acting as inappropriately as they possibly could without getting kicked out by security.  During the evening one of my girlfriend’s friends struck the owner of the company with his event program and told him to move his “F****** fat basketball head”. Another made a point of leaning forward and shouting in the account manager’s wife’s ear that he really wanted to have sex with the back up dancers on the stage (not in that tame of language).

Unless the LW made it clear that he was not a part of all of this (and was appalled at all of it), it could have very easily appeared that he was supporting what was going on.

The All-Knowing Wise One (aka Mom) always taught me "Birds of a feather, flock together."  If this LW didn't have the sense to appear to be a different bird, I can see how the boss didn't differentiate and thought he was in the middle of it, too.

Even so, the boss should be judging employees purely on their work performances, not how they spend their free time. Would I be OK to fire someone who protested outside abortion clinics, for example? Just because you may find your employees actions on their private time despicable, you have no right to fire them for it.

If you worked for a doctor that sometimes preformed abortions possibly. But that an extreme example.

the main thing is he didn't keep his private life private, his employer didn't find out his friend couldn't behave because they sought out the information he brought it right to them.  I understand the LW didn't plan this. 

[Vegemite Girl]

Even so, the boss should be judging employees purely on their work performances, not how they spend their free time. Would I be OK to fire someone who protested outside abortion clinics, for example? Just because you may find your employees actions on their private time despicable, you have no right to fire them for it.

Firstly that line is blurred when the employee accepts the invitation to a social event.

Secondly companies absolutely can and do judge people on their out of work activities, and 'acting in a manner that would reflect badly on the company' has been a fireable offense in most of the professional jobs I have held.

My first employer added it to their manual when an accountant was moon-lighting as an exotic dancer and came face to face with a client.

No one should be judged on a political or religious activity, and firing for those actions is usually a civil suit waiting to happen. But terminating someone for acting like a rear end in public is perfectly legal in at-will states in the US.

Glad I don't live in the States!

The company 'owns' me 9-5, not my entire life. If they want that, they need to pay for it... and I don't see many 6 figure salaries out there...

[artk2002]

Even so, the boss should be judging employees purely on their work performances, not how they spend their free time. Would I be OK to fire someone who protested outside abortion clinics, for example? Just because you may find your employees actions on their private time despicable, you have no right to fire them for it.

Firstly that line is blurred when the employee accepts the invitation to a social event.

Secondly companies absolutely can and do judge people on their out of work activities, and 'acting in a manner that would reflect badly on the company' has been a fireable offense in most of the professional jobs I have held.

My first employer added it to their manual when an accountant was moon-lighting as an exotic dancer and came face to face with a client.

No one should be judged on a political or religious activity, and firing for those actions is usually a civil suit waiting to happen. But terminating someone for acting like a rear end in public is perfectly legal in at-will states in the US.

I agree.  This is why people can be fired for saying stupid things on FB about their employers.  I would be a complete fool if I thought that I could go out drinking with my boss, vomit on his shoes and have him not think less of me in the future.

One of the reasons that employers will fire people in situations is this: Even though this event happened outside of work, it shows a lack of judgment (in picking friends, at least) that may well show up in the office in other ways.  Why should I, as an employer, risk my business on someone who shows poor judgment?  I've never found a person yet who could be completely let go outside of the office and not have it affect their work.

[artk2002]

Glad I don't live in the States!

The company 'owns' me 9-5, not my entire life. If they want that, they need to pay for it... and I don't see many 6 figure salaries out there...

Let's try an experiment, then.  Go online, on FB or some place else.  Post something really, really nasty about your employer.  Then try to use the "but it was on my own time" when they fire you.  Or, go rob a bank -- that's on your own time, isn't it?  See how long you last at the company, even if you aren't convicted.  Or go sell trade secrets to a competitor -- you're ok as long as you do it on the weekend, right?

Expecting an absolute line between work life and private life is a bit simplistic, I think.

[Drunken Housewife]

Glad I don't live in the States!

The company 'owns' me 9-5, not my entire life. If they want that, they need to pay for it... and I don't see many 6 figure salaries out there...

But here they were "paying for it":  the company bought the tickets for the concert.

In order not to be judged by his companions, the letter writer could have bought the tickets himself and sat in a very different part of the venue. 

I also dislike the judging-people-on-offhours-behavior thing, BUT this wasn't really offhours.  It was a company outing.