From the Blog: Haka Lacken?

[LadyPekoe]

And Twik is talking about 200 graduates.  In my graduation with my undergraduate degree, it was more like 3,000 graduates.  If it had to be constantly stopped so anyone could do anything it would have been too long.  It was hours long as it was.

Time wise, I understand many cultures feel Westerners move too fast.  But I still think they are rude if they can't adjust for a Western event--even if you feel that arrival times should be fluid, it's rude to show up for my shower 2 hours late.

[artk2002]

Because it only makes sense to say university graduations are not part of Maori culture if you think that it stopped evolving once New Zealand was colonised by Europe in the nineteenth-century. They are part of Maori culture, and important to Maori, just as they are part of New Zealand culture in general.

But if you look at the graduation as being a rite of passage then wouldn't the Maoris have some sort of celebration for that?

No, I look at graduations as celebrating graduation from university. (??)

A 'rite of passage' is a general category, describing any number of events.  Confirmation or Bar/Bat Mitzvah; reaching the age of majority; marriage; graduation; the birth of a child -- these are all rites of passage. Rites that most cultures celebrate in some way or another.  I'm not sure why you make a distinction.  Are you saying that a graduation isn't a rite of passage?

[Vegemite Girl]

Because it only makes sense to say university graduations are not part of Maori culture if you think that it stopped evolving once New Zealand was colonised by Europe in the nineteenth-century. They are part of Maori culture, and important to Maori, just as they are part of New Zealand culture in general.

But if you look at the graduation as being a rite of passage then wouldn't the Maoris have some sort of celebration for that?

No, I look at graduations as celebrating graduation from university. (??)

A 'rite of passage' is a general category, describing any number of events.  Confirmation or Bar/Bat Mitzvah; reaching the age of majority; marriage; graduation; the birth of a child -- these are all rites of passage. Rites that most cultures celebrate in some way or another.  I'm not sure why you make a distinction.  Are you saying that a graduation isn't a rite of passage?

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

[Twik]

What stages in life are universal and have standard celebrations? The most "universal" ones I can think of don't have specific celebrations in our culture.

[Vegemite Girl]

What stages in life are universal and have standard celebrations? The most "universal" ones I can think of don't have specific celebrations in our culture.

I agree, they don't. I never said I felt rites of passage were celebrated in western culture; just that I didn't feel graduation was one of them.

[Hanna]

What stages in life are universal and have standard celebrations? The most "universal" ones I can think of don't have specific celebrations in our culture.

Nevermind "rights of passage", I'm not even sure what is sure what is even meant by "our culture".  Having lived in a number of places just in the US, I would say there is tremendous diversity in western culture even from region to region in the US, nevermind outside of the US.

Maybe that's what you mean though?  Celebrations for any occassion might have some commonality, but really aren't all that standard.

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

What stages in life are universal and have standard celebrations? The most "universal" ones I can think of don't have specific celebrations in our culture.

Nevermind "rights of passage", I'm not even sure what is sure what is even meant by "our culture".  Having lived in a number of places just in the US, I would say there is tremendous diversity in western culture even from region to region in the US, nevermind outside of the US.

Maybe that's what you mean though?  Celebrations for any occassion might have some commonality, but really aren't all that standard.

And therein lies a dilemma.  Is there a thread to discuss celebrations and occasions anywhere hereabouts?  (I recognize that there are for "Holidays" and "Weddings", but is there one for other kinds?)

[artk2002]

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

And the transition from "student" to "productive member of society" isn't a major transition?

[GoldenGemini]

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

And the transition from "student" to "productive member of society" isn't a major transition?

Well, I'd like to think I was already a productive member of society.    I paid taxes, as did my fellow students.  Most of us had part-time jobs.  What is the requirements for being deemed "productive"?

Although, I do agree that graduation from Uni is a major event.

[Vegemite Girl]

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

And the transition from "student" to "productive member of society" isn't a major transition?

Personally I believe that productive members of society don't become so simply through education (speaking as a post grad myself).

I don't think graduation is a major event. It's something someone may chose to do, but it is just a phase... I wouldn't have a celebration with every work promotion, for example.

[artk2002]

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

And the transition from "student" to "productive member of society" isn't a major transition?

Personally I believe that productive members of society don't become so simply through education (speaking as a post grad myself).

I don't think graduation is a major event. It's something someone may chose to do, but it is just a phase... I wouldn't have a celebration with every work promotion, for example.

Sorry... I used "productive member..." as a form of short-hand. I was stuck for an appropriate phrase.  The point being that graduating is a transition from "student" to "not student" and is, for most of us, a very significant transition.  One worth celebrating.

[Hanna]

I can't speak for Lady Vavasour but I don't see it as one - I also wouldn't class marriage or birth as one either, pretty much for the same reason; they're not important to everyone, or even an expected part of life. To me a rite of passage celebrates a movement from one stage to another, and is pretty much universal.

I think birth is a pretty big move from one stage to another! And definitely an expected part of life.

[MegSong22]

People used Air Horns at mine, I founbd that rude, particularly since on of them was a fellow graduate who blew it for all his friends, and was sitting directly behind me. The dance sounds AWESOME!