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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 4003728 times)

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Mustard

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11580 on: January 26, 2018, 07:31:14 AM »

Several beneficiaries of The President's Club charity are reportedly handing back donations, including Great Ormand Street Hospital (GOSH) which is world-renowned for treating sick children.  What say you, eHellions, to handing back the money?

Well, my first thought was that I'm not sure they can return the donations. Charities have specific legal status and their trustees have legal responsibilities, they can't just give away money which has been donated. So ethically, they may not want to keep the donations, but legally they will need to tread very carefully and probably get advice from the Charities Commission  which regulates UK charities before doing anything.

My thinking exactly Margo.   I find it somewhat amusing that many of those attending claim to have left the dinner early; it must have been deserted by 8.30....

Team HoundMom

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11581 on: January 26, 2018, 11:13:46 AM »
Yesterday, 2 (TWO!!) leaders of provincial Conservative parties were forced to resign due to allegations of sexual misconduct.

The one in Ontario is not Professional Darwinism, IMO.  The whole story seems fishy: Two women came forward to a journalist (not the police), anonymously, after 5 & 10 years, a few weeks away from an election where it was very likely the accused would become Premier of Ontario.  He has not been given the chance to defend himself and in this day & age of social media his reputation and career are destroyed. He committed no crime: by their own admissions each woman engaged in the activity and he stopped when they asked him to.  I do not know this man personally but I feel the need to defend him when he is not being treated fairly or as "innocent until proven guilty", which is what everyone deserves, male or female, public figure or not.

atirial

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11582 on: January 26, 2018, 11:36:17 AM »
Well, my first thought was that I'm not sure they can return the donations. Charities have specific legal status and their trustees have legal responsibilities, they can't just give away money which has been donated. So ethically, they may not want to keep the donations, but legally they will need to tread very carefully and probably get advice from the Charities Commission  which regulates UK charities before doing anything.
What I do find amusing is that so many charities have asked to return donations that the Charities Commission have assigned someone to handle those enquiries specifically: just email them with "President's Club" in the subject. They must have been flooded with queries.

lmyrs

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11583 on: January 26, 2018, 12:43:00 PM »
Yesterday, 2 (TWO!!) leaders of provincial Conservative parties were forced to resign due to allegations of sexual misconduct.

The one in Ontario is not Professional Darwinism, IMO.  The whole story seems fishy: Two women came forward to a journalist (not the police), anonymously, after 5 & 10 years, a few weeks away from an election where it was very likely the accused would become Premier of Ontario.  He has not been given the chance to defend himself and in this day & age of social media his reputation and career are destroyed. He committed no crime: by their own admissions each woman engaged in the activity and he stopped when they asked him to.  I do not know this man personally but I feel the need to defend him when he is not being treated fairly or as "innocent until proven guilty", which is what everyone deserves, male or female, public figure or not.

I think you should read the story from CTV that originally broke it. It may or may not be criminal, but it is definitely morally wrong. One of the victims has extensive and contemporaneous social media accounts of what happened. Not to mention that this behaviour was an open secret in Barrie, Ottawa and Queen's Park. The stories of him getting underage (often high school) girls into the bar in Barrie (owned by his friends) and then plying them with alcohol until they were drunk are so common that it would blow your mind. Not to mention the extensive "open secret" whisper network, including several public tweets (many from 2015) to journalists from multiple people suggesting they look into his behaviour at that bar. Several media outlets have been pursuing these stories for months, if not years but CTV was able to get over the final "proof" hurdle that allowed them to publish. I think that when you add that to the fact that the entirety of the party's senior staff resigned (chief of staff, campaign manager, 2 deputy campaign managers, press secretary), rather than stand by him, there's some pretty damning evidence.

The timing wasn't great for him. But, the story has been brewing nationally for at least 2 years and locally for over 10. If you're a serial sexual predator of young girls, then don't run for the highest public office in your province. That wasn't PD a few short years ago. It is now. Too bad for the men who are going to get caught. They should quit now if they don't want this to happen to them. I, for one, am glad to see the back of all them. From every party.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 12:45:41 PM by lmyrs »

JeanFromBNA

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11584 on: January 26, 2018, 01:28:31 PM »

Several beneficiaries of The President's Club charity are reportedly handing back donations, including Great Ormand Street Hospital (GOSH) which is world-renowned for treating sick children.  What say you, eHellions, to handing back the money?

Well, my first thought was that I'm not sure they can return the donations. Charities have specific legal status and their trustees have legal responsibilities, they can't just give away money which has been donated. So ethically, they may not want to keep the donations, but legally they will need to tread very carefully and probably get advice from the Charities Commission  which regulates UK charities before doing anything.
Can they refuse donations, for example, from this event?

Twik

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11585 on: January 26, 2018, 01:34:13 PM »

Several beneficiaries of The President's Club charity are reportedly handing back donations, including Great Ormand Street Hospital (GOSH) which is world-renowned for treating sick children.  What say you, eHellions, to handing back the money?

Well, my first thought was that I'm not sure they can return the donations. Charities have specific legal status and their trustees have legal responsibilities, they can't just give away money which has been donated. So ethically, they may not want to keep the donations, but legally they will need to tread very carefully and probably get advice from the Charities Commission  which regulates UK charities before doing anything.
Can they refuse donations, for example, from this event?

I'm sure they can refuse to take it in the first place, but returning the money probably does have a lot of problems. Not the least of which is that the club itself is disbanding, so who do they return it to? The original men who donated it?
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cass2591

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11586 on: January 26, 2018, 04:04:57 PM »
The no political discussions applies to governments outside the USA, FYI. Take your discussion to PM if you want to continue debating.
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Margo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11587 on: January 26, 2018, 05:38:25 PM »

Several beneficiaries of The President's Club charity are reportedly handing back donations, including Great Ormand Street Hospital (GOSH) which is world-renowned for treating sick children.  What say you, eHellions, to handing back the money?

Well, my first thought was that I'm not sure they can return the donations. Charities have specific legal status and their trustees have legal responsibilities, they can't just give away money which has been donated. So ethically, they may not want to keep the donations, but legally they will need to tread very carefully and probably get advice from the Charities Commission  which regulates UK charities before doing anything.
Can they refuse donations, for example, from this event?

I'm sure they can refuse to take it in the first place, but returning the money probably does have a lot of problems. Not the least of which is that the club itself is disbanding, so who do they return it to? The original men who donated it?

Turning it down is easier than returning it. Returning has another issue which is that the President's Club itself is a charity, so *also* has issues about the circumstances in which they can turn down or return donations....
IIRC, from my very rusty charity & trust law, if  charity is closed down any finds can normally be passed to another charity with similar aims,  so probably in the end any funds will get passed to another general charitable trust and probably get donated to some of the original recipients but without the 'President's Club' name on them.
Although some of it may, of course, end up going to settle any legal claims which may be brought, and to give redundancy payments to any paid staff it had who will be laid off when it is wound up, and so on.

Octavia

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11588 on: January 27, 2018, 05:09:25 PM »
One of my coworkers physically threatened another one and damaged company property, with several of us as witnesses. Not a smart career move, and he was shown the door.
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jedikaiti

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11589 on: January 27, 2018, 11:48:37 PM »
I should hope he had a police escort and metal bracelets after that one!
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Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11590 on: January 28, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
I used to have a coworker, Wallace, who was extremely vain and lied about his age.    Another coworker, Dale, found out Wallace’s actual age and teased him about it.    Wallace’s reaction was to grab Dale by the throat and slam him against the wall - and yet, somehow, he never got into trouble for it.    Mystifying.

MissRose

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11591 on: January 29, 2018, 10:00:07 AM »
Several people called off today at my friend's office, her suspicions are several of them are due to post weekend hangovers.  Honestly, if you call in sick for a hangover, that should be a write up as that easily avoided by either drinking less or not at all the day before going back to work (or following well known remedies ahead of time) or even better putting on your big boy/girl pants and come to work. 

#borecore

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11592 on: January 29, 2018, 10:54:57 AM »
Several people called off today at my friend's office, her suspicions are several of them are due to post weekend hangovers.  Honestly, if you call in sick for a hangover, that should be a write up as that easily avoided by either drinking less or not at all the day before going back to work (or following well known remedies ahead of time) or even better putting on your big boy/girl pants and come to work.

My sick days are mine to use, and while I've never personally used one for a hangover, I've used one when I felt bad but not bad enough to be literally incapable of any work, and felt fine doing so. Hangovers can be that bad. Grown adults should be allowed to use their sick time (and their weekends/time off) at their own discretion. I certainly hope it doesn't result in them losing their jobs!
And your friend doesn't come off looking great speculating about her colleagues in a judgmental way.

Morticia

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11593 on: January 29, 2018, 11:05:33 AM »
Now our mom says she's changed her mind about the devil's brood, they may be evil so she thinks, but at least they're never rude...
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GardenGal

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #11594 on: January 29, 2018, 11:19:58 AM »
I used to have a coworker, Wallace, who was extremely vain and lied about his age.    Another coworker, Dale, found out Wallace’s actual age and teased him about it.    Wallace’s reaction was to grab Dale by the throat and slam him against the wall - and yet, somehow, he never got into trouble for it.    Mystifying.

I had an aunt who lied about her age because she thought it would help her get a job at a bank.  She got the job and worked there for a number of years.  When she was 65 she was ready to retire, but because the bank thought she was only 55 or 60 (I forget which) there was a major issue with her collecting retirement funds.  This was about 50 years ago, and I don't remember the details, unfortunately, of how it was resolved.
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