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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 4285128 times)

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Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3825 on: June 12, 2013, 11:23:46 AM »
IOE, people make a point of having a 'degree' are usually very insecure about themselves.  I may mention that I have an MLS but only in the context of a post about library work. There, it may make sense.   

I once worked with someone who always introduced himself as 'Dr. X PhD'.  That is so wrong on many levels.
And guaranteed that other Ph.D.s snickered at him behind his back.
Personally, I go with the royal family of England's rule: introduce yourself by your NAME, and if you're sufficiently important, everyone's going to know the title anyway. If they don't, then you really aren't so important, are you?

Pen^2

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3826 on: June 12, 2013, 11:26:37 AM »
We had exactly the opposite situation with a scholar.  He was extremely well respected in his field. During life, he was  honored with a Festschrift and, after his death, a collection of his important articles was published.  However,  because he had to leave Germany in 1938, he never managed to get a Bachelor's degree let alone a Doctorate.

People would often refer to him as Dr. X.  He would always carefully correct them and say that he
was 'Mr. X'.  He taught at Columbia and NYU so he would allow himself to be referred to as 'Professor X'.

Charles Francis Xavier!??

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3827 on: June 12, 2013, 11:31:03 AM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"
The tradition for Ph.D.s is that you only use the title when you are conducting business related to your degree. Most Ph.D.s are Dr. Soandso at work, or when representing their employer or area of expertise (like in the interview example you gave) or when presenting at a conference...but not when making your airline reservation for travel, or in social situations. If I routinely called someone Dr. Soandso at work, I probably would call them Dr. Soandso away from work...but then, I work in a setting where we refer to each other when speaking to students as Dr., but we only address each other as Dr. when joking around.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3828 on: June 12, 2013, 11:36:28 AM »
Yes... being called your title can be nice and it is reasonable to enforce it if people forget, but you can take it further than this, and that's what I dislike. I knew a teacher who wouldn't respond to a general masculine title like "sir" if a stranger was talking to him. He'd be getting coffee and the cashier would say, "here's your change, sir." He would snarl, "actually, it's doctor, I'll have you know." And refuse to leave until they repeated it with his correction.

I knew another guy who wouldn't answer to "excuse me" unless it had "doctor" stuck to the end. Even from absolute strangers, again, yes. I think this is what taking it too far is.

In many graduate programs, the grad students (particularly doctoral students) are considered 'junior colleagues' so they address the faculty by first names. A friend of mine was taking a class for continuing education, and went to office hours of the professor.  She went into his office and he did not look up or acknowledge her in any way. She called him by name, and without looking up he said, 'That will be DOCTOR X to you, Miss Straley.' She replied, 'Then that will be DOCTOR Straley to YOU, Dr. X.' One of the few times in her life she ever insisted on being called Dr. by anyone.  >:D

NyaChan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3829 on: June 12, 2013, 11:42:13 AM »
Yes... being called your title can be nice and it is reasonable to enforce it if people forget, but you can take it further than this, and that's what I dislike. I knew a teacher who wouldn't respond to a general masculine title like "sir" if a stranger was talking to him. He'd be getting coffee and the cashier would say, "here's your change, sir." He would snarl, "actually, it's doctor, I'll have you know." And refuse to leave until they repeated it with his correction.

I knew another guy who wouldn't answer to "excuse me" unless it had "doctor" stuck to the end. Even from absolute strangers, again, yes. I think this is what taking it too far is.

In many graduate programs, the grad students (particularly doctoral students) are considered 'junior colleagues' so they address the faculty by first names. A friend of mine was taking a class for continuing education, and went to office hours of the professor.  She went into his office and he did not look up or acknowledge her in any way. She called him by name, and without looking up he said, 'That will be DOCTOR X to you, Miss Straley.' She replied, 'Then that will be DOCTOR Straley to YOU, Dr. X.' One of the few times in her life she ever insisted on being called Dr. by anyone.  >:D

Good for her!  I can understand wanting the more formal use of your title in appropriate settings, but there are polite ways of conveying that.  Pretty obvious this guy just wanted to shoot her down in an assertion of his perceived superiority.

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3830 on: June 12, 2013, 11:42:50 AM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"
The tradition for Ph.D.s is that you only use the title when you are conducting business related to your degree. Most Ph.D.s are Dr. Soandso at work, or when representing their employer or area of expertise (like in the interview example you gave) or when presenting at a conference...but not when making your airline reservation for travel, or in social situations. If I routinely called someone Dr. Soandso at work, I probably would call them Dr. Soandso away from work...but then, I work in a setting where we refer to each other when speaking to students as Dr., but we only address each other as Dr. when joking around.

I was also taught that referring to a PhD as "Doctor" was only for professional settings. In social settings or in personal correspondence (including wedding invitations) only M.D.'s should be referred to as "Doctor."

Slartibartfast

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3831 on: June 12, 2013, 12:41:08 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

This primarily ends up being a problem when a person with a PhD dispenses medical advice and goes by "doctor" when they're not actually a medical doctor.  (Dr. Phil, I'm looking at you!)

Winterlight

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3832 on: June 12, 2013, 12:41:40 PM »
My father likes to say that in academia, a PhD is like a nose- it's only noticeable if you don't have one.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

Pen^2

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3833 on: June 12, 2013, 01:01:28 PM »
My father likes to say that in academia, a PhD is like a nose- it's only noticeable if you don't have one.

And yet I am plagued by images of Tycho Brahe  :P

In other news, that's a pretty good saying.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3834 on: June 12, 2013, 01:10:27 PM »
My friend told me about this one and well I don't know if it's PD yet or not because the young woman still seems to be in business but her methods are less than professional.

Okay, bff lives in a small midwest town and takes her dog to the vet to be groomed.  Another groomer opened a business in town and the vet, being rather busy with usual vet business and grooming, recommended quite a few of their patients to this young woman.   Including my friend, who has taken her dog to this groomer at least once and she did a fine job. 

About a week or so ago, friend had an appointment to take her dog to this groomer (who apparently works out of her house) but the woman texted her saying "Sorry, I have a sick child, I can't groom your dog today." That wasn't what bothered my friend.   But when she called to reschedule and found out the groomer was rather booked and wouldn't have an opening for another month, my friend said "Well I'll get him an appointment with the vet then, cause he needs to be groomed for the summer."   

This groomer says "Well I heard their new groomer isn't very good, I wouldn't go to them."  Friend told me, and I rather agree, that it seems rather unprofessional to say something like that when they have sent business to her to help get her grooming business going.  And fwiw, friend asked around and apparently no one she knows has had a complaint about the vets new groomer. 

And apparently she called a few times to get friend's dog in and repeated it again that the vet's new groomer isn't very good. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 05:56:49 PM by Piratelvr1121 »
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ica171

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3835 on: June 12, 2013, 01:29:38 PM »
I knew someone who'd received an honorary doctorate from a university because he'd donated huge flippin' wodges of cash, and he insisted on being called "Doctor".  That was particularly galling, because he'd done nothing to earn it beyond signing a cheque.

My uncle got an honorary doctorate because of his position in the community and he does that, too. Every time I see him addressed as "doctor" somewhere, I can't help but roll my eyes. People say that my grandma must be so proud to have a son who's a doctor, and I just think "she doesn't."

LEMon

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3836 on: June 12, 2013, 03:04:11 PM »
My friend told me about this one and well I don't know if it's PD yet or not because the young woman still seems to be in business but her methods are less than professional.

Okay, bff lives in a small midwest town and takes her dog to the vet to be groomed.  Another groomer opened a business in town and the vet, being rather busy with usual vet business and grooming, recommended quite a few of their patients to this young woman.   Including my friend, who has taken her dog to this groomer at least once and she did a fine job. 

About a week or so ago, friend had an appointment to take her dog to this groomer (who apparently works out of her house) but the woman texted her saying "Sorry, I have a sick child, I can't groom your dog today." That wasn't what bothered my friend.   But when she called to reschedule and found out the groomer was rather booked and wouldn't have an opening for another month, my friend said "Well I'll get him an appointment with the vet then, cause he needs to be groomed for the summer."   

This vet says "Well I heard their new groomer isn't very good, I wouldn't go to them."  Friend told me, and I rather agree, that it seems rather unprofessional to say something like that when they have sent business to her to help get her grooming business going.  And fwiw, friend asked around and apparently no one she knows has had a complaint about the vets new groomer. 

And apparently she called a few times to get friend's dog in and repeated it again that the vet's new groomer isn't very good.
Is the bolded 'vet' supposed to be the new business groomer?

Tea Drinker

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3837 on: June 12, 2013, 03:42:42 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"
The tradition for Ph.D.s is that you only use the title when you are conducting business related to your degree. Most Ph.D.s are Dr. Soandso at work, or when representing their employer or area of expertise (like in the interview example you gave) or when presenting at a conference...but not when making your airline reservation for travel, or in social situations. If I routinely called someone Dr. Soandso at work, I probably would call them Dr. Soandso away from work...but then, I work in a setting where we refer to each other when speaking to students as Dr., but we only address each other as Dr. when joking around.

An amusing and practical exception to that: my aunt L has a doctorate in biology and taught college biology for many years. When my grandmother was quite old and in the hospital, that aunt (rather than my mother or other aunt) was Speaker to the Hospital as much as possible, and she would always introduce herself as "Dr. B" rather than "Ms. B." It got more respect and more detailed medical information. This worked because her degree is in biology (rather than chemistry or ancient history), so she understood the details and could and did ask appropriate questions. (My mother could, in theory, have insisted on being "Dr R" even though she doesn't have a doctorate, but the same information phrased the same way would not have been useful to her.)
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guihong

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3838 on: June 12, 2013, 03:57:09 PM »
I never knew my father even had a doctorate until I was an adult, and never knew he was head of the lab he worked in until his funeral, when so many of his former employees came up to tell me what a good boss he was :(.



jedikaiti

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3839 on: June 12, 2013, 03:59:02 PM »
My father has several honorary doctorates, and NEVER uses the "Dr". Mom & I occasionally tease him by putting 3 in front of his name. :-)
What part of v_e = \sqrt{\frac{2GM}{r}} don't you understand? It's only rocket science!

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