Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1471410 times)

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Twik

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4395 on: September 03, 2013, 09:34:51 AM »
Have to keep the details a bit vague, but someone I know had to fire the same guy twice, two different jobs, two different companies, same problem.  The guy in question liked to "self medicate" (yeah, those were his words) with a bottle....a lot.

He had been through rehab several times. Swore up & down that he was sober. He was sent on an overseas business trip with a coworker.  Coworker called back to the U.S. about 48 hours into the trip that this guy had picked up a bottle when they changed planes at major airport, got sloshed on the flight, crawled into his hotel room and kept drinking.  He did not show up at all for work the next day.  Coworker had to finish business meetings solo. Company had to hire a doctor to fly back home with this guy to keep him sober on the plane.  Fired when he got back.

Second time the same guy would keep a bottle stashed behind the dumpster & go out for a swig regularly.  He also had a bad habit of taking crucial equipment home, then when he didn't show up for work the other folks were unable to do their jobs because they did not have critical equipment.  Fired second time.

How drunk was he, that he needed medical attention on the plane?  :o
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snowfire

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4396 on: September 03, 2013, 12:24:52 PM »
I'm sure he still had a pretty high blood alcohol level when they got him on the plane, but I think the doctor was a precaution decreed by the legal eagles at his company.

The same guy also got picked up for one DUI, and before he went to court on that one, was picked up for another DUI...and took a swing at the cop who pulled him over.  More Darwin in action.

Sad part of it is, he was an incredibly bright man who just had some really big problems and dealt with them in a very self destructive way. 

VorFemme

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4397 on: September 03, 2013, 06:48:34 PM »
Something tells me that the company (and possibly the airline) were afraid he'd go into the DTs while detoxing on the trip home - so medical care was provided to prevent problems from cropping up on the trip.  Whether with a doctor to say that he cannot have the alcohol - or to keep it to a rate of drinking that would let him gradually go through detoxing/withdrawal without delirium tremens.

Or they could have just been afraid of being sued.....
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nutraxfornerves

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4398 on: September 03, 2013, 06:50:03 PM »
Quote
How drunk was he, that he needed medical attention on the plane?
If he was coming off a huge bender, and being required to be sober for a 15-hour or more trans-Pacific trip, he could go into DTs. DTs is a medial emergency--it can be fatal. Details about that are beyond the scope of this board, but you can look it up.

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blueyzca01

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4399 on: September 03, 2013, 07:21:59 PM »
I can believe it.  When I worked at a construction company one guy showed up for an interview so stoned that he fell out of his chair.  Also, the head mechanic got canned for doing lines of coke on the breakroom table....

*facepalm*

Really people, you do your lines of coke in the bathroom stall...NOT on the breakroom table

What an amateur
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Slartibartfast

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4400 on: September 03, 2013, 09:47:40 PM »
I'm a (volunteer) staff member at a major science fiction convention which I won't name here but I've not exactly been quiet about elsewhere on this site  :P  This convention *finally* put in place a harassment policy this year, outlining what they consider harassment (other than "Don't be a d1ck"), what the consequences are, and what to do if there's an issue.

One of my fellow volunteers had the dubious honor of being the first person removed from convention staff under the new harassment policy - two days before the convention actually started  ::)  A second staffer - a good friend of his - then walked off, leaving us shorthanded.  Worse, this second staffer was actually in charge of one of the volunteer departments, so we had to find someone at the last minute to cover.  In an interesting ironic twist, the female staffer who reported the harassment in the first place was the one to step up and take over.  In a much sadder twist, the amount of gossip and victim-blaming she got from other people (who should not have known the details about the incident in the first place) caused her to leave our volunteer staff for good mid-convention also, once again leaving that department short-staffed  :-\  I don't blame her - victims of sexual harassment / sexual assault react with all sorts of emotions and they're all valid reactions - but it did make the whole thing harder.

Not-PD-but-should-be: it really bothered me how many of my fellow volunteers thought the new policy was a huge joke.  "Ha ha ha, we can't sexually harass anyone anymore?  Does that mean I can't be me?"  Unfortunately, most of the guys who felt like this policy was going to crimp their style were, in fact, the ones I wanted to tell "YES YOU @#$@#$@ YOU ARE THE REASON WE HAVE THIS POLICY IN THE FIRST PLACE AND YOUR STUPID OFFENSIVE "JOKES" AREN'T FUNNY ANYWAY."  But I wasn't in a position to actually say that  :-\

AngelicGamer

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4401 on: September 03, 2013, 11:07:23 PM »
Slartibartfast - and that is the reason that I will not be attending that con until they show themselves to have really changed, no matter how much I want to go.  Shame on those who victim-blamed your female co-worker.  They should be the ones to be kicked out instead of her feeling that the only thing to do was to leave.




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ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4402 on: September 04, 2013, 09:25:45 AM »
Something tells me that the company (and possibly the airline) were afraid he'd go into the DTs while detoxing on the trip home - so medical care was provided to prevent problems from cropping up on the trip.  Whether with a doctor to say that he cannot have the alcohol - or to keep it to a rate of drinking that would let him gradually go through detoxing/withdrawal without delirium tremens.

Or they could have just been afraid of being sued.....

The same reason why stumbling drunk cruise ship passengers are taken to sick bay, instead of their cabins. In case of an accident, the company doesn't want to be held responsible. While the railings are fairly high on all the decks, it is easy to go over.

Firecat

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4403 on: September 04, 2013, 09:39:37 AM »
I'm a (volunteer) staff member at a major science fiction convention which I won't name here but I've not exactly been quiet about elsewhere on this site  :P  This convention *finally* put in place a harassment policy this year, outlining what they consider harassment (other than "Don't be a d1ck"), what the consequences are, and what to do if there's an issue.

One of my fellow volunteers had the dubious honor of being the first person removed from convention staff under the new harassment policy - two days before the convention actually started  ::)  A second staffer - a good friend of his - then walked off, leaving us shorthanded.  Worse, this second staffer was actually in charge of one of the volunteer departments, so we had to find someone at the last minute to cover.  In an interesting ironic twist, the female staffer who reported the harassment in the first place was the one to step up and take over.  In a much sadder twist, the amount of gossip and victim-blaming she got from other people (who should not have known the details about the incident in the first place) caused her to leave our volunteer staff for good mid-convention also, once again leaving that department short-staffed  :-\  I don't blame her - victims of sexual harassment / sexual assault react with all sorts of emotions and they're all valid reactions - but it did make the whole thing harder.

Not-PD-but-should-be: it really bothered me how many of my fellow volunteers thought the new policy was a huge joke.  "Ha ha ha, we can't sexually harass anyone anymore?  Does that mean I can't be me?"  Unfortunately, most of the guys who felt like this policy was going to crimp their style were, in fact, the ones I wanted to tell "YES YOU @#$@#$@ YOU ARE THE REASON WE HAVE THIS POLICY IN THE FIRST PLACE AND YOUR STUPID OFFENSIVE "JOKES" AREN'T FUNNY ANYWAY."  But I wasn't in a position to actually say that  :-\

Ain't no drama like convention drama...I'm on the convention committee for a local-to-me convention, too. We've had a harassment policy for awhile, but in recent years, we've started publicizing it more with signs around the convention and such. And yes, a few people (though no concom members that I know of) have been banned due to violations of the policy.

But what we get is the "Oh, NOES, guys will be afraid to flirt or talk to anyone. Oh, NOES!!!" And that's not the point, at all. The point is, "Don't be a creeper." And if your social skills aren't quite up to snuff, then that's something you need to work on, not something that's every woman's responsibility (or not every woman you find attractive's responsibility) to educate you about.

::ahem:: Not that I feel strongly about this, or anything...

I'm sorry that people had to behave so badly over this. But good for the convention for being willing to enforce the policy, even if it did mean losing a few volunteers. And shame on the victim-blaming jerks; I hope they got (and are getting) called out on their behavior, too, because it's not ok.

cwm

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4404 on: September 04, 2013, 10:36:21 AM »
I'm a (volunteer) staff member at a major science fiction convention which I won't name here but I've not exactly been quiet about elsewhere on this site  :P  This convention *finally* put in place a harassment policy this year, outlining what they consider harassment (other than "Don't be a d1ck"), what the consequences are, and what to do if there's an issue.

One of my fellow volunteers had the dubious honor of being the first person removed from convention staff under the new harassment policy - two days before the convention actually started  ::)  A second staffer - a good friend of his - then walked off, leaving us shorthanded.  Worse, this second staffer was actually in charge of one of the volunteer departments, so we had to find someone at the last minute to cover.  In an interesting ironic twist, the female staffer who reported the harassment in the first place was the one to step up and take over.  In a much sadder twist, the amount of gossip and victim-blaming she got from other people (who should not have known the details about the incident in the first place) caused her to leave our volunteer staff for good mid-convention also, once again leaving that department short-staffed  :-\  I don't blame her - victims of sexual harassment / sexual assault react with all sorts of emotions and they're all valid reactions - but it did make the whole thing harder.

Not-PD-but-should-be: it really bothered me how many of my fellow volunteers thought the new policy was a huge joke.  "Ha ha ha, we can't sexually harass anyone anymore?  Does that mean I can't be me?"  Unfortunately, most of the guys who felt like this policy was going to crimp their style were, in fact, the ones I wanted to tell "YES YOU @#$@#$@ YOU ARE THE REASON WE HAVE THIS POLICY IN THE FIRST PLACE AND YOUR STUPID OFFENSIVE "JOKES" AREN'T FUNNY ANYWAY."  But I wasn't in a position to actually say that  :-\

Ain't no drama like convention drama...I'm on the convention committee for a local-to-me convention, too. We've had a harassment policy for awhile, but in recent years, we've started publicizing it more with signs around the convention and such. And yes, a few people (though no concom members that I know of) have been banned due to violations of the policy.

But what we get is the "Oh, NOES, guys will be afraid to flirt or talk to anyone. Oh, NOES!!!" And that's not the point, at all. The point is, "Don't be a creeper." And if your social skills aren't quite up to snuff, then that's something you need to work on, not something that's every woman's responsibility (or not every woman you find attractive's responsibility) to educate you about.

::ahem:: Not that I feel strongly about this, or anything...

I'm sorry that people had to behave so badly over this. But good for the convention for being willing to enforce the policy, even if it did mean losing a few volunteers. And shame on the victim-blaming jerks; I hope they got (and are getting) called out on their behavior, too, because it's not ok.

I know a bunch of people who run a local con. I've been to it for the past few years, and have never personally had any experiences, but this year my friends are pressuring me to pressure my boyfriend into accepting a job as a director and pressuring me into volunteering. Thing is, due to my friendships, I've heard exactly what kind of things go on behind the scenes. I don't want to be associated with that, and BF isn't sure he has the experience to run what they want him to run. He's never even been to the convention in question. But most of their staff is starting to jump ship over the past few years due to various reasons. I have a feeling that within the next five years it's going to be combined with another local con that both do pretty much the same business.

Firecat

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4405 on: September 04, 2013, 10:54:20 AM »
I'm a (volunteer) staff member at a major science fiction convention which I won't name here but I've not exactly been quiet about elsewhere on this site  :P  This convention *finally* put in place a harassment policy this year, outlining what they consider harassment (other than "Don't be a d1ck"), what the consequences are, and what to do if there's an issue.

One of my fellow volunteers had the dubious honor of being the first person removed from convention staff under the new harassment policy - two days before the convention actually started  ::)  A second staffer - a good friend of his - then walked off, leaving us shorthanded.  Worse, this second staffer was actually in charge of one of the volunteer departments, so we had to find someone at the last minute to cover.  In an interesting ironic twist, the female staffer who reported the harassment in the first place was the one to step up and take over.  In a much sadder twist, the amount of gossip and victim-blaming she got from other people (who should not have known the details about the incident in the first place) caused her to leave our volunteer staff for good mid-convention also, once again leaving that department short-staffed  :-\  I don't blame her - victims of sexual harassment / sexual assault react with all sorts of emotions and they're all valid reactions - but it did make the whole thing harder.

Not-PD-but-should-be: it really bothered me how many of my fellow volunteers thought the new policy was a huge joke.  "Ha ha ha, we can't sexually harass anyone anymore?  Does that mean I can't be me?"  Unfortunately, most of the guys who felt like this policy was going to crimp their style were, in fact, the ones I wanted to tell "YES YOU @#$@#$@ YOU ARE THE REASON WE HAVE THIS POLICY IN THE FIRST PLACE AND YOUR STUPID OFFENSIVE "JOKES" AREN'T FUNNY ANYWAY."  But I wasn't in a position to actually say that  :-\

Ain't no drama like convention drama...I'm on the convention committee for a local-to-me convention, too. We've had a harassment policy for awhile, but in recent years, we've started publicizing it more with signs around the convention and such. And yes, a few people (though no concom members that I know of) have been banned due to violations of the policy.

But what we get is the "Oh, NOES, guys will be afraid to flirt or talk to anyone. Oh, NOES!!!" And that's not the point, at all. The point is, "Don't be a creeper." And if your social skills aren't quite up to snuff, then that's something you need to work on, not something that's every woman's responsibility (or not every woman you find attractive's responsibility) to educate you about.

::ahem:: Not that I feel strongly about this, or anything...

I'm sorry that people had to behave so badly over this. But good for the convention for being willing to enforce the policy, even if it did mean losing a few volunteers. And shame on the victim-blaming jerks; I hope they got (and are getting) called out on their behavior, too, because it's not ok.

I know a bunch of people who run a local con. I've been to it for the past few years, and have never personally had any experiences, but this year my friends are pressuring me to pressure my boyfriend into accepting a job as a director and pressuring me into volunteering. Thing is, due to my friendships, I've heard exactly what kind of things go on behind the scenes. I don't want to be associated with that, and BF isn't sure he has the experience to run what they want him to run. He's never even been to the convention in question. But most of their staff is starting to jump ship over the past few years due to various reasons. I have a feeling that within the next five years it's going to be combined with another local con that both do pretty much the same business.

He's never been to the convention, and they want him to be a director? And are pressuring you to pressure him into it? Ok, that's two HUGE red flags right there, so far as I'm concerned. Sounds like a great time for "I'm sorry, that won't be possible" to me, and I'm big on volunteering at least a few hours if you attend the convention and enjoy it. (If it's a volunteer-run convention, that is.)

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4406 on: September 04, 2013, 11:01:42 AM »
Ain't no drama like convention drama...I'm on the convention committee for a local-to-me convention, too. We've had a harassment policy for awhile, but in recent years, we've started publicizing it more with signs around the convention and such. And yes, a few people (though no concom members that I know of) have been banned due to violations of the policy.

But what we get is the "Oh, NOES, guys will be afraid to flirt or talk to anyone. Oh, NOES!!!" And that's not the point, at all. The point is, "Don't be a creeper." And if your social skills aren't quite up to snuff, then that's something you need to work on, not something that's every woman's responsibility (or not every woman you find attractive's responsibility) to educate you about.

::ahem:: Not that I feel strongly about this, or anything...

I'm sorry that people had to behave so badly over this. But good for the convention for being willing to enforce the policy, even if it did mean losing a few volunteers. And shame on the victim-blaming jerks; I hope they got (and are getting) called out on their behavior, too, because it's not ok.

POD to the bolded! I'm not a convention go-er, but I am a scientist and I am so tired of the attitude of "Well, he/she doesn't have good social skills, so just be nice to him/her!" It's not my fault that a person doesn't have good social skills and pretending that inappropriate behavior or conversation is funny certainly isn't going to encourage them to develop those social skills.

suzieQ

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4407 on: September 04, 2013, 11:02:09 AM »
When my cousin's husband was in the ICU, his mother tried to pull that stunt because she has a PhD. In education. Which I fully respect but when your son is in the ICU & none of the very smart MDs at a major research hospital known for their skill at fixing people can figure out what is wrong with him that is not the time to insist all the doctors & nurses call you Dr. X. There are more important things to worry about.

That reminds me of when DS was in Children's after being diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. I worked at a nursery (babies) at the time and we all wore scrubs. I kept having to tell the nurses - no, I'm not a nurse! These are just my comfortable clothes from work. :)
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siamesecat2965

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4408 on: September 04, 2013, 12:30:46 PM »
Something tells me that the company (and possibly the airline) were afraid he'd go into the DTs while detoxing on the trip home - so medical care was provided to prevent problems from cropping up on the trip.  Whether with a doctor to say that he cannot have the alcohol - or to keep it to a rate of drinking that would let him gradually go through detoxing/withdrawal without delirium tremens.

Or they could have just been afraid of being sued.....

The same reason why stumbling drunk cruise ship passengers are taken to sick bay, instead of their cabins. In case of an accident, the company doesn't want to be held responsible. While the railings are fairly high on all the decks, it is easy to go over.

Makes sense to me. Slightly OT but on my last cruise, my friend and I spent the evening at the nightclub bar. Me, drinking fancy martinis, but you could still taste teh booze, so after 4 or so, I quit. My friend, not really a drinker, was having some fruity blue punch-like drinks. When we closed it down, I had to lead her back to the cabin.  I was drunk but functional, she, not so much, so she walked behind me, with her hand on my shoulder. I then learned that at 3-4am on the ship, they have security stationed around, I'm guessing to make sure a. passengers can go back to their cabins, and b. they make it back. We had a very nice guard shadow us back.  I'm guessing had we not been coherent enough to be trusted in our cabin, we would have been taken elsewhere.
 

ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4409 on: September 04, 2013, 02:22:44 PM »
Yes, and on Royal Caribbean, we have only seen one stumbling drunk person and staff zeroed in on her within two minutes. I suppose that is why they don't have too many accidents on board.