Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1469368 times)

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SoCalVal

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4800 on: November 02, 2013, 07:30:37 PM »
Sometimes it's hard to get people past their probationary period due to PD.

Our newest hire (NH) who's on temporary restricted physical duty.  Okay, I modified the schedule so NH wouldn't be physically stressed. NH went on to do a task that involved heavy lifting, bending, pushing, etc., and that was assigned to someone else. All the time muttering about cussing someone out before the day is over.  Manager hears and asks if everything is okay.  NH is upset because of having to do this physical task. Manager asks why NH did it when it was assigned to someone else.  "I wanted it done now," is the response. 

NH then complained about the other staff talking bad about NH in the break room at b o'clock. Later Manager and I are talking about how to handle the other staffers when volunteer comes in and apologizes for monopolizing staff from a o'clock to c o'clock reviewing her recent big trip.  We casually asked if she met NH.  No, she never saw NH and no one even mentioned that NH was on staff. 

So, we have NH stepping in doing someone else's job and complaining about doing it. Then whining about being "bad mouthed" when NH wasn't even mentioned.   

Some are determined to make their lives miserable.

Oddly, it sounds like someone determined to be the center of attention, even negative attention.

My recent PD -- DH told me several months ago this woman (TW) lost her job as church secretary for one of the parishes he attends (they were cutting her job).  Last Thursday, I let DH know we have an ASAP temp opening for another admin and wanted to know if TW still needs a job.  DH contacts her, she does and she tells him she'll contact the temp pool at work (temp pool at my work) and update her resume the next morning.  Early Friday morning, I e-mail TW and let her know the basic requirements for the job and let her know I look forward to hearing from her.  Cue the sound of crickets because it is now Saturday evening, and I still haven't heard from her, not even something as simple as "Thank you for the information; I will send you my resume shortly" to just acknowledge she got the e-mail (DH was part of the thread so I doubt it would've gone to spam).  It may sound like I'm expecting too much but if you are desperate for work and have been given an in for a good position that needs someone immediately, don't you think you should do your best to be quick to maintain contact so that you give a good impression?  At this point, I question her reliability because if she can't even reply to my e-mail in a timely fashion, what makes me think she would be able to handle the responsibilities of the job?  I don't know her but thought I'd try to help someone DH knows.



nutraxfornerves

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4801 on: November 02, 2013, 10:23:34 PM »
Before assuming that TW is being uncooperative, I'd try to contact her by phone. She might be away from internet access due to vacation, death in the family, inability to look at email except by going to the library, etc.

Nutrax
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SoCalVal

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4802 on: November 03, 2013, 01:12:45 AM »
Before assuming that TW is being uncooperative, I'd try to contact her by phone. She might be away from internet access due to vacation, death in the family, inability to look at email except by going to the library, etc.

I understand, but TW told DH she was going to immediately go to the campus the morning I e-mailed her to make sure to update her resume.  I don't know this person; I just thought I'd do her a favor as someone DH mentioned to me who is in need and who he personally knows.  I wouldn't normally do this for an unknown because I don't know what her knowledge is or quality of work is so, yeah, my expectation is high that if someone takes the time out to give you a heads up on a good job opportunity that will go quickly once it's posted and you're in desperate need of a job, then you make sure to quickly reply to the person doing you that favor so the person will do what's possible to advocate for you.  I don't benefit one way or the other by providing my input on who to select; it's my coworker whose going to have to train the person to do her job.

In any case, it might be a blessing in disguise because we had a friend over tonight who also has experience in admin work and currently needs a job.  I let her know also and will send her the link to the temp pool so she can apply when it pops up. 



phred246

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4803 on: November 03, 2013, 04:04:05 AM »
I just remembered a couple, not sure I submitted them already...

    A friend who worked for a big drug company told me that there had been a young guy who had worked there for several years right out of college who got the chance for a promotion/department transfer. The new position required an FBI background check, so he filled out all of the paperwork,  and included a misdemeanor drug arrest he got during college. However, HR noticed that the arrest was not on his original job application. When asked about it, he said that he was afraid he wouldn't be hired if the company knew. HR told him that it wouldn't have mattered back then, but by not listing it, he had submitted a false application, and not only would not be promoted/transferred, but also immediately fired!

     Three weeks after I started with a telecom company (1996), another guy was hired for a different department. He started on Monday, filling out all the new employee paperwork, on Tuesday his Supervisor (who sat next to me) had him configure a couple of brand new database servers, on Wednesday morning, he got his company photo ID, on Wednesday afternoon, he got called into a Corporate Directors office and fired, when he came out, he was escorted off the premises! Supervisor wanted so bad to tell me why, but legally/ethically couldn't, so he let me guess. It wasn't that he failed the drug test, but something on his resume and/or job application didn't verify! Supervisor was ticked off, because he couldn't trust the work done on Tuesday, and he had to spend a day to reconfigure the servers, just in case!

   This one is not a PD, but a year or so later, Supervisor (an ex-Marine sharpshooter) put a background program on a UNIX box in his cube that randomly made explosion sounds, from a pistol up to a field gun, at varying volumes. One day, when he was at another site, I was sitting at my desk, working on a preliminary design for a major project that I was in charge of, pencil in one hand, coffee cup in the other, when a very loud noise that sounded like every 16 inch gun on the USS New Jersey had just fired came from his cube! I managed to toss coffee all over that side of my desk, totally destroying the tablet I was writing on, plus a lot of naughty words came out of my mouth! I cleaned up, went to his cube and unplugged the speakers on the system, then copied my work to a new tablet! The next day, I told him what happened and gave him the coffee-scented tablet!

edited to correct a wrong word
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iridaceae

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4804 on: November 03, 2013, 04:56:34 AM »
Yeah at a different job we had a guy terminated because he lied on the application. The sad thing was that the arrest he had omitted was such an apparently grey area in terms of why and for what that had he been honest it would not have kept him from being hired or promoted.

heathert

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4805 on: November 03, 2013, 07:49:29 AM »
Just to give a little perspective on why some people may not want to put anything listed on their arrest record onto a job application, a friend of mine did have a drug charge from 20 years ago on her record. She has since totally changed her life and worked at a job for 15 years after but when that position dissolved, it was a very long and hard road to find another job.  Even though it's been 20 years with no further offenses or even a traffic ticket.  People would flat out tell her that was the reason they wouldn't even interview her when she sent in the applications, if they responded at all.

So while obviously you should never lie about it because that would indicate you have not changed, I can see the other side when people get desperate.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4806 on: November 03, 2013, 11:12:59 AM »
Just to give a little perspective on why some people may not want to put anything listed on their arrest record onto a job application, 
It's a very difficult situation. Some companies will use that to cut down the applicant pool, and omitting it is the only way to get an interview. Zero tolerance rules can eliminate a lot of good people who've learned from a foolish mistake.
In my department, we run into this occasionally with students. Some of the best addictions counselors are former addicts who've gotten clean and sober, so a drug charge years ago may not matter. You may even get a pass if it were an assault charge, for getting into a fight while under the influence. But it has to be WAY in your past...not a couple of years ago. I can understand why students are tempted not to tell us, but we had a student who was a semester away from graduation who had to leave the program because his offenses were too recent and too serious for any internship to be willing to take a chance on him. If he'd told us the truth earlier, we could have routed him into a different program in his junior year.

Margo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4807 on: November 03, 2013, 11:46:13 AM »
Just to give a little perspective on why some people may not want to put anything listed on their arrest record onto a job application, 
It's a very difficult situation. Some companies will use that to cut down the applicant pool, and omitting it is the only way to get an interview. Zero tolerance rules can eliminate a lot of good people who've learned from a foolish mistake.
In my department, we run into this occasionally with students. Some of the best addictions counselors are former addicts who've gotten clean and sober, so a drug charge years ago may not matter. You may even get a pass if it were an assault charge, for getting into a fight while under the influence. But it has to be WAY in your past...not a couple of years ago. I can understand why students are tempted not to tell us, but we had a student who was a semester away from graduation who had to leave the program because his offenses were too recent and too serious for any internship to be willing to take a chance on him. If he'd told us the truth earlier, we could have routed him into a different program in his junior year.

Unless the application form is worded to prevent it, I suppose the way to go would be not to declare it on the form, but to mention it at interview.

(slightly off topic, do convictions ever drop off the record? Here in the UK, some convictions are "spent" after a certain period of time, and don't have to be disclosed for the majority of job applications (there are some kinds of jobs, such as those which involve working with children, healthcare, law, pharmacy and National Security where they still have to be disclosed, and it doesn't apply to all convictions - but it would mean that (for most jobs) it would not be a requirement to disclose a minor conviction that happened  15 years ago)

Library Dragon

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4808 on: November 03, 2013, 04:41:22 PM »
Some arrests are in a grey area to list on applications.  One person I know was arrested at the age of 18 because she and a friend were arrested for the brilliant move of substituting beer in a root beer 6 pack and then going through self-check out. They never made out the door. 

She pled guilty and the judge had placed in youthful offender category.  The DA explained that as long as she was totally clean, not even a parking ticket, for a year it would be removed from her record. She was told that when asked she could say she had never been arrested. 

For a basic background this was fine, but within that year she went through a security clearance check. She was upfront and disclosed the incident. If she had simply followed the DA's instructions it could have been construed as a lie.

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PastryGoddess

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4809 on: November 03, 2013, 05:57:53 PM »
The questions is typically "have you been convicted of a crime?, not have you been arrested. 

I'm in this grey area.  When I was 23 I was stopped for DUI.  I was given something called a PBJ or probation before judgement for 3 years. After my probation was up, it dropped off my record completely. During those 3 years I had to say that I had been convicted of a crime.  After the 3 years were up, I can now say I've never been convicted.
It was almost PD for me as I had a security clearance at the time.  I was thisclose to losing it and they said the only thing that saved me was that I came to them before they found out about it and was completely upfront and honest about what happened. 
Dumbest thing I've ever done...::)

TeamBhakta

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4810 on: November 03, 2013, 08:03:13 PM »
Quote
Unless the application form is worded to prevent it, I suppose the way to go would be not to declare it on the form, but to mention it at interview.

Where I live, the applications usually say "Have you ever been convicted of a felony? This will not necessarily exclude you from hiring", plus there is sometimes a box below that where you can explain further. From what I've been told, receiving an application with the "yes" or "no" spot conspicuously unanswered = resume into the garbage, because if you won't disclose that then what else are you hiding ?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:04:47 PM by TeamBhakta »

Elfmama

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4811 on: November 03, 2013, 09:40:13 PM »
   This one is not a PD, but a year or so later, Supervisor (an ex-Marine sharpshooter) put a background program on a UNIX box in his cube that randomly made explosion sounds, from a pistol up to a field gun, at varying volumes. One day, when he was at another site, I was sitting at my desk, working on a preliminary design for a major project that I was in charge of, pencil in one hand, coffee cup in the other, when a very loud noise that sounded like every 16 inch gun on the USS New Jersey had just fired came from his cube! I managed to toss coffee all over that side of my desk, totally destroying the tablet I was writing on, plus a lot of naughty words came out of my mouth! I cleaned up, went to his cube and unplugged the speakers on the system, then copied my work to a new tablet! The next day, I told him what happened and gave him the coffee-scented tablet!

edited to correct a wrong word
I do hope you meant a paper tablet and not a computer one...
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Nikko-chan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4812 on: November 04, 2013, 01:29:51 AM »
   This one is not a PD, but a year or so later, Supervisor (an ex-Marine sharpshooter) put a background program on a UNIX box in his cube that randomly made explosion sounds, from a pistol up to a field gun, at varying volumes. One day, when he was at another site, I was sitting at my desk, working on a preliminary design for a major project that I was in charge of, pencil in one hand, coffee cup in the other, when a very loud noise that sounded like every 16 inch gun on the USS New Jersey had just fired came from his cube! I managed to toss coffee all over that side of my desk, totally destroying the tablet I was writing on, plus a lot of naughty words came out of my mouth! I cleaned up, went to his cube and unplugged the speakers on the system, then copied my work to a new tablet! The next day, I told him what happened and gave him the coffee-scented tablet!

edited to correct a wrong word
I do hope you meant a paper tablet and not a computer one...

Did they even have computer tablets back then?

Elfmama

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4813 on: November 04, 2013, 02:02:26 AM »
   This one is not a PD, but a year or so later, Supervisor (an ex-Marine sharpshooter) put a background program on a UNIX box in his cube that randomly made explosion sounds, from a pistol up to a field gun, at varying volumes. One day, when he was at another site, I was sitting at my desk, working on a preliminary design for a major project that I was in charge of, pencil in one hand, coffee cup in the other, when a very loud noise that sounded like every 16 inch gun on the USS New Jersey had just fired came from his cube! I managed to toss coffee all over that side of my desk, totally destroying the tablet I was writing on, plus a lot of naughty words came out of my mouth! I cleaned up, went to his cube and unplugged the speakers on the system, then copied my work to a new tablet! The next day, I told him what happened and gave him the coffee-scented tablet!

edited to correct a wrong word
I do hope you meant a paper tablet and not a computer one...

Did they even have computer tablets back then?
Oops, sorry, missed the date in the preceding paragraph that I cut.  They weren't as common as they are now, but they had been invented. DH won a Palm Pilot in a drawing about that time. And of course, in 1990's dollars they were a lot more expensive, so drowning one in coffee would have been a Very Big Deal.
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siamesecat2965

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #4814 on: November 04, 2013, 11:03:20 AM »
This just happened at my store - we hired a person who wanted a job with us because the hours were flexible and there was growth potential of you worked hard. He had a new family and the job security with us was better than his part time gig.  Well- he calls in one night and tells his department manager "I can't come in tonight, my other job called and I can make double there than I can here".

Manager told him he needed to talk to him next time he came in.  Never came back.

This is similar to some of our customers, who apply to work in my store, thinking it will be all sunshine and roses "oh you get to be around ALL the nice clothes" and so on. I don't know waht they expected, but many don't last very long once they discover that the job (esp when closing) entails emptying the trash, folding every blessed item IN the store, finger space the hangers, sometimes cleaning the bathrooms (no cleaning service) vacuuming the floor, dusting fixtures and so on. 

Many last a few weeks then quit, I suspect, due to the fact its not as "fun" as they thought it would be.