Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1328869 times)

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z_squared82

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5025 on: December 05, 2013, 09:22:37 AM »
So, it probably wonít turn into PD, but one can hope.

My friend is a high school teacher. A student assaulted her in class. She was not hurt, but the other students saw it, potentially affecting her authority.

She finds out the student is getting a VERY light punishment for the assault. Friend did not care for that, went to talk to the appropriate person in charge.

Who basically told her that being assaulted was part of her job and she needed to get used to it.

Stunned, my friend said she was fairly certain the teacherís union would disagree. Said person in charge laughed, said no they wouldnít, but she should feel free to talk to them about it.

The teacherís union is not amused, does not think that being assaulted is part of friendís job description, and the complaint is now working its way through the proper channels.

(This will probably not affect the studentís discipline, but now friend is mostly upset at the lack of support she has received from the administration. And on the up side, all the students in the classroom who saw the assault, all of whom think snitching is for female dogs, volunteered to write up what they saw if it would help my friend/their teacher.)

Yeah, that's when you say screw it and file a police report.  Getting hit is not part of my job.

She would have, had that been an option she was given. Last time she was assaulted (again, friend wasn't hurt, but it didn't look good), she was talked out of filing a police report. She regrets that decision. But now she's just so over the student's behavior, she wants the union to go after said administrator who told her to learn to take it.

Goosey

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5026 on: December 05, 2013, 11:07:42 AM »
Ugh, as if teachers don't have enough to deal with.

My aunt is a teacher and one of her students threw a chair at her head. She was convinced not to file charges because it would "cause stress in the classroom."

You know what causes stress in the classroom? Having a fricking chair thrown at your head.

Twik

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5027 on: December 05, 2013, 11:26:17 AM »
it's regrettable so many school administrators take the position that if they just close their eyes, these problems will "sort themselves out".

One day in later life, of course, that student may through a chair at a fellow employee or supervisor, and be honestly shocked, and feel quite ill-done by, that he is both charged and fired.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

darling

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5028 on: December 05, 2013, 12:18:11 PM »
One day in later life, of course, that student may through a chair at a fellow employee or supervisor, and be honestly shocked, and feel quite ill-done by, that he is both charged and fired.

This. How do we expect people to learn appropriate behavior if we don't nip that crap in the bud and show there are commensurate consequences?

Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5029 on: December 05, 2013, 12:24:09 PM »
Lord.  If the school administration isn't prepared to protect its employees, what chance does a bullied student have?

This is nowhere near as serious as assault, but that story reminds me of when I brought a case of Girl Guide cookies into the office and placed them in the common room with an envelope for money.  Someone stole either money or cookies (my numbers didn't add up).  When I mentioned this to the boss, hoping that he'd take some kind of action (even just a "Thou Shalt Not Steal" e-mail), he snorted and said "You deserve it for trusting your co-workers."  'Kay.

I should mention that I was working for IBM at the time.  My co-workers could easily afford a $3 box of cookies.

Midnight Kitty

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5030 on: December 05, 2013, 01:39:50 PM »
... he snorted and said "You deserve it for trusting your co-workers."
My office, a government agency, has a "snack area."  It is stocked with sodas, bottles of water, Cup O Noodles, and everything from tea bags to bags of cookies/chips.  It operates on an honor system.  The prices are based on cost rounded up.  After several years, there was enough money to replace the refrigerator where the cold soda & water is kept.  As far as I know, no one steals from it.  People in other offices (all government) in our building prefer our honor snack area to the vending machine on the ground floor.
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SoCalVal

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5031 on: December 05, 2013, 03:20:53 PM »
it's regrettable so many school administrators take the position that if they just close their eyes, these problems will "sort themselves out".

One day in later life, of course, that student may through a chair at a fellow employee or supervisor, and be honestly shocked, and feel quite ill-done by, that he is both charged and fired.

When I was in 4th grade, my class consisted of locals and students from two schools that were bused in.  My deskmate was one of those bused in.  One day, she saw the underwear band of one of our male classmates peaking out so she turned to me and said something like, "Hey, his underwear is showing; I'm going to go pull it up."  Even at age 9 (1979), I thought that a bizarre thing to do, and I think I even asked her if that were a good idea and said she probably shouldn't do that.  She thought it would be hilarious.  She did it, he was startled and upset and our teacher called her out on it.  She simply could not fathom what she did wrong and got into a verbal fight with the teacher.  The teacher then told her she was going to need to go to the principal's office, which my classmate also fought against.  The last I saw of her was her sitting in a chair next to the classroom door with a very petulant look on her face.  We never saw her again, and I didn't see her at school so I'm assuming they sent her back to her school of origin.  Her school is in a bad area so I'm thinking this kind of behavior might've been acceptable, even funny, at her school?  At my school it was just bizarre and really a bad idea.

Update on a PD I posted about a month ago -- the woman who I e-mailed regarding a job opportunity who never got back to me to even acknowledge receipt of the e-mail.  DH ran into her at church the other day.  She told him she got my e-mail but had gotten the flu and then read my e-mail and found it was above her skill level.  Call me a bad person, but I told DH I didn't buy the story.  Even if she had gotten the flu, that's no excuse for never replying to me to acknowledge she'd gotten my information but that it wouldn't work for her.  Why is this PD?  Last week, one of the local charities posted available jobs.  I took a look at the list and saw one of those jobs was something that is a pretty basic secretarial position not involving things like knowing how/needing to use computers so I realized she probably would be qualified to do it.  However, since she couldn't acknowledge me passing on info before, I certainly wasn't going to do it again.  We live in an area full of government positions that really require a skill-set greater than what she has so a position like this is rare (and the charity isn't well known -- I only know about it because it's food-related).  Had she only shown me the courtesy of responding (like "Hey, thank you for the heads-up, but I'm not qualified for this"), I likely would've passed this on to her.  As a result of her action, she's on her own (and she's still looking for a job, per DH -- he also said he had a feeling she was let go for not being a good employee since, even though she stated she was "laid off" because the church was cutting back on costs, there's a new church secretary).



LazyDaisy

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5032 on: December 05, 2013, 03:47:29 PM »
it's regrettable so many school administrators take the position that if they just close their eyes, these problems will "sort themselves out".

One day in later life, of course, that student may through a chair at a fellow employee or supervisor, and be honestly shocked, and feel quite ill-done by, that he is both charged and fired.

When I was in 4th grade, my class consisted of locals and students from two schools that were bused in.  My deskmate was one of those bused in.  One day, she saw the underwear band of one of our male classmates peaking out so she turned to me and said something like, "Hey, his underwear is showing; I'm going to go pull it up."  Even at age 9 (1979), I thought that a bizarre thing to do, and I think I even asked her if that were a good idea and said she probably shouldn't do that.  She thought it would be hilarious.  She did it, he was startled and upset and our teacher called her out on it.  She simply could not fathom what she did wrong and got into a verbal fight with the teacher.  The teacher then told her she was going to need to go to the principal's office, which my classmate also fought against.  The last I saw of her was her sitting in a chair next to the classroom door with a very petulant look on her face.  We never saw her again, and I didn't see her at school so I'm assuming they sent her back to her school of origin.  Her school is in a bad area so I'm thinking this kind of behavior might've been acceptable, even funny, at her school?  At my school it was just bizarre and really a bad idea.

Update on a PD I posted about a month ago -- the woman who I e-mailed regarding a job opportunity who never got back to me to even acknowledge receipt of the e-mail.  DH ran into her at church the other day.  She told him she got my e-mail but had gotten the flu and then read my e-mail and found it was above her skill level.  Call me a bad person, but I told DH I didn't buy the story.  Even if she had gotten the flu, that's no excuse for never replying to me to acknowledge she'd gotten my information but that it wouldn't work for her.  Why is this PD?  Last week, one of the local charities posted available jobs.  I took a look at the list and saw one of those jobs was something that is a pretty basic secretarial position not involving things like knowing how/needing to use computers so I realized she probably would be qualified to do it.  However, since she couldn't acknowledge me passing on info before, I certainly wasn't going to do it again.  We live in an area full of government positions that really require a skill-set greater than what she has so a position like this is rare (and the charity isn't well known -- I only know about it because it's food-related).  Had she only shown me the courtesy of responding (like "Hey, thank you for the heads-up, but I'm not qualified for this"), I likely would've passed this on to her.  As a result of her action, she's on her own (and she's still looking for a job, per DH -- he also said he had a feeling she was let go for not being a good employee since, even though she stated she was "laid off" because the church was cutting back on costs, there's a new church secretary).
Sounds about right. I bet she was costing the church money by being incompetent and rude. Now they've saved themselves a fortune, and donations may have picked up, by hiring a better secretary.
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Iris

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5033 on: December 05, 2013, 04:22:21 PM »
So, it probably wonít turn into PD, but one can hope.

My friend is a high school teacher. A student assaulted her in class. She was not hurt, but the other students saw it, potentially affecting her authority.

She finds out the student is getting a VERY light punishment for the assault. Friend did not care for that, went to talk to the appropriate person in charge.

Who basically told her that being assaulted was part of her job and she needed to get used to it.

Stunned, my friend said she was fairly certain the teacherís union would disagree. Said person in charge laughed, said no they wouldnít, but she should feel free to talk to them about it.

The teacherís union is not amused, does not think that being assaulted is part of friendís job description, and the complaint is now working its way through the proper channels.

(This will probably not affect the studentís discipline, but now friend is mostly upset at the lack of support she has received from the administration. And on the up side, all the students in the classroom who saw the assault, all of whom think snitching is for female dogs, volunteered to write up what they saw if it would help my friend/their teacher.)

Yeah, that's when you say screw it and file a police report.  Getting hit is not part of my job.

She would have, had that been an option she was given. Last time she was assaulted (again, friend wasn't hurt, but it didn't look good), she was talked out of filing a police report. She regrets that decision. But now she's just so over the student's behavior, she wants the union to go after said administrator who told her to learn to take it.

I would get written statements from all the students who witnessed the assault and start communicating with the executive via email. Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...
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cwm

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5034 on: December 05, 2013, 04:28:20 PM »
<quote tree snipped>

I would get written statements from all the students who witnessed the assault and start communicating with the executive via email. Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...

And absolutely POD to this. Hopefully it ends up being PD on the case of the administration, but doubtful.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5035 on: December 05, 2013, 05:07:44 PM »
it's regrettable so many school administrators take the position that if they just close their eyes, these problems will "sort themselves out".

One day in later life, of course, that student may through a chair at a fellow employee or supervisor, and be honestly shocked, and feel quite ill-done by, that he is both charged and fired.
Or worse. I worked in a psych hospital, and an outpatient came in and threatened a therapist with a gun. The therapist talked him down and then declined to press charges (this was not the patient's therapist, but a guy he happened to run into first).
About a year later, the patient came into the ER, and opened fire, killing a doctor, a security guard and a person who'd come in for treatment and their driver. Patient knew none of them, he was just there to kill as many as he could.
If he'd been charged a year earlier, he would probably have been committed to a state hospital and received treatment...at the very least, it would be likely he wouldn't be out walking around.
I decided at that time that no one gets an excuse for assaulting me (well, maybe child patients). I've seen too many times when someone was forgiven because they were mentally ill, and later, we didn't have the evidence to be able to commit them before something worse happened.

WolfWay

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5036 on: December 06, 2013, 07:11:59 AM »
Little Miss Whiny is being canned (she's on contract, and they cancelled it).

Mr 16 Years continues.
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o_gal

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5037 on: December 06, 2013, 08:08:43 AM »
it's regrettable so many school administrators take the position that if they just close their eyes, these problems will "sort themselves out".

Yep. DS was bullied by one boy in 3rd grade. The school punished him, and made notes in both kids' files to keep them separated as much as feasibly possible.

In middle school, the 6th graders go to an overnight camp for 4 days/3 nights. Guess who is put in a cabin with DS? When we brought the issue up, they switched the other boy out of the cabin. But their response when we asked why in the world they were put together, knowing their history, was that they don't transfer bullying reports between the schools, to give the kids "a fresh start"  ::)

Twik

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5038 on: December 06, 2013, 09:46:41 AM »
Many years ago, when I was studying as a teacher, I did a practice stint in a local senior high school. Discipline, of course, was always an issue (as one student said, "It's our job to mess with the student teachers!"), but when I did my review, I said I thought I'd done pretty well, except for one student. No matter what I tried, he was surly and inattentive.

"Oh, well," my reviewer said, "I think you did pretty well. Considering he put a teacher in the hospital last semester."

... OK, file that under "I'm not sure whether knowing that fact would have helped me or hurt me."
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

z_squared82

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5039 on: December 06, 2013, 10:39:50 AM »
So, it probably wonít turn into PD, but one can hope.

My friend is a high school teacher. A student assaulted her in class. She was not hurt, but the other students saw it, potentially affecting her authority.

She finds out the student is getting a VERY light punishment for the assault. Friend did not care for that, went to talk to the appropriate person in charge.

Who basically told her that being assaulted was part of her job and she needed to get used to it.

Stunned, my friend said she was fairly certain the teacherís union would disagree. Said person in charge laughed, said no they wouldnít, but she should feel free to talk to them about it.

The teacherís union is not amused, does not think that being assaulted is part of friendís job description, and the complaint is now working its way through the proper channels.

(This will probably not affect the studentís discipline, but now friend is mostly upset at the lack of support she has received from the administration. And on the up side, all the students in the classroom who saw the assault, all of whom think snitching is for female dogs, volunteered to write up what they saw if it would help my friend/their teacher.)

Yeah, that's when you say screw it and file a police report.  Getting hit is not part of my job.

She would have, had that been an option she was given. Last time she was assaulted (again, friend wasn't hurt, but it didn't look good), she was talked out of filing a police report. She regrets that decision. But now she's just so over the student's behavior, she wants the union to go after said administrator who told her to learn to take it.

I would get written statements from all the students who witnessed the assault and start communicating with the executive via email. Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...

Update. Friend filled out correct form with Union. Administrator quietly removed student from friend's class. Although administrator did not follow the proper procedure, all the Union was really going to be able to do was get the student out of her class, so once they hear the student has been removed, they'll drop it.

Friend is still mad as ehell, especially since this administrator is in charge of her review, but they have mostly been avoiding each other. Administrator retires this school year, so friend won't have to deal with it for longer than that.