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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 4288529 times)

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siamesecat2965

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5625 on: May 22, 2014, 09:15:20 AM »
A friend of mine, a newspaper reporter, had to have surgery to remove a benign tumor from his auditory nerve in late 2000 (the timing here is important). To get to the tumor, surgeons had to literally lift up his brain. So although it technically wasn't brain surgery, they had to check his brain function after.

"What's your name?" [Name]
"Do you know where you are?" [Hospital name]
"What day is it?" "Wednesday"
"Who's President?" "I don't know, and neither do you."

The medical team cracked up. It was the disputed period after the Bush-Gore election debacle.

the last one reminds me of my grandmother, when, at age 97, she had to go into a nursing home. They asked her certain questions, to test her mental status. Things such as her name, how old was she, where is she, which she passed with flying colors. Then they got to "who is president?" Her response: "Bill Clinton, but I don't have much use for him, Hillary either" Apparently she cracked up the entire staff!

Free Range Hippy Chick

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5626 on: May 22, 2014, 09:23:52 AM »
This is going to run and run. They had a second test asking for the name of the school for grades 9 through 12. Well, we don't call them grades. We call them forms or years and I don't know if ours are numbered the same way as the American ones. Most of our children leave primary school - you don't call it that, do you? - aged 11 and go to secondary school until they're 16. In some areas they leave primary school at 8 and go to middle school until they're 14. Also, we don't say '9 through 12'. We sat 'from 9 to 12' or 'between 9 and 12'.

They've asked for a seafood kept in big tanks of seawater at the store. We don't call them stores, they're shops, and I have never in my life seen a seawater tank (or a freshwater tank, come to that) in one.

They asked for the person who takes your bags to the car. Oh, I know this one! That's a mugger! Sorry, people, but British shops don't carry things to your car for you.

What do you call the season that comes after fall? We don't have a season called fall.

I think that when the complaint goes to the hospital, I shall be selling tickets. There won't be popcorn because I don't like it, but feel free to bring your own.

wolfie

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5627 on: May 22, 2014, 09:33:07 AM »
This is going to run and run. They had a second test asking for the name of the school for grades 9 through 12. Well, we don't call them grades. We call them forms or years and I don't know if ours are numbered the same way as the American ones. Most of our children leave primary school - you don't call it that, do you? - aged 11 and go to secondary school until they're 16. In some areas they leave primary school at 8 and go to middle school until they're 14. Also, we don't say '9 through 12'. We sat 'from 9 to 12' or 'between 9 and 12'.

They've asked for a seafood kept in big tanks of seawater at the store. We don't call them stores, they're shops, and I have never in my life seen a seawater tank (or a freshwater tank, come to that) in one.

They asked for the person who takes your bags to the car. Oh, I know this one! That's a mugger! Sorry, people, but British shops don't carry things to your car for you.

What do you call the season that comes after fall? We don't have a season called fall.

I think that when the complaint goes to the hospital, I shall be selling tickets. There won't be popcorn because I don't like it, but feel free to bring your own.

it's interesting reading this and trying to figure out the answers. The first one is tough because it also depends on the area. I think the answer they are looking for is High School.  In my area we called it gradeschool, junior high and then High school. I think some places call it elementary instead of grade and I know there is a middleschool but I have no idea what grades it refers to.


Second one has to be lobster - do they not sell live lobster where you are? Or you would have to go to a specialty store for that?

Can the person administering the test answer those questions correctly?

kherbert05

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5628 on: May 22, 2014, 09:48:12 AM »
This is going to run and run. They had a second test asking for the name of the school for grades 9 through 12. Well, we don't call them grades. We call them forms or years and I don't know if ours are numbered the same way as the American ones. Most of our children leave primary school - you don't call it that, do you? - aged 11 and go to secondary school until they're 16. In some areas they leave primary school at 8 and go to middle school until they're 14. Also, we don't say '9 through 12'. We sat 'from 9 to 12' or 'between 9 and 12'.

They've asked for a seafood kept in big tanks of seawater at the store. We don't call them stores, they're shops, and I have never in my life seen a seawater tank (or a freshwater tank, come to that) in one.

They asked for the person who takes your bags to the car. Oh, I know this one! That's a mugger! Sorry, people, but British shops don't carry things to your car for you.

What do you call the season that comes after fall? We don't have a season called fall.

I think that when the complaint goes to the hospital, I shall be selling tickets. There won't be popcorn because I don't like it, but feel free to bring your own.

it's interesting reading this and trying to figure out the answers. The first one is tough because it also depends on the area. I think the answer they are looking for is High School.  In my area we called it gradeschool, junior high and then High school. I think some places call it elementary instead of grade and I know there is a middleschool but I have no idea what grades it refers to.


Second one has to be lobster - do they not sell live lobster where you are? Or you would have to go to a specialty store for that?

Can the person administering the test answer those questions correctly?
Junior high is 7-8 here
Middle is 6 th

Some districts have primary k-2
Intermediate  3-5
Middle 6,
Jh 7-8
Hs 9-12

In San Angelo 2feeder
Patterns
Central hs
Elementary k-6
Jh 7-9
Hs 10-12

Lake view
Elem k-5
Jh 6-8
Hs 9-12

When I was student teaching a girl transferred to central feeder pattern her family threw fits about her being demoted back to elementary
Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

Free Range Hippy Chick

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5629 on: May 22, 2014, 09:49:44 AM »

Second one has to be lobster - do they not sell live lobster where you are? Or you would have to go to a specialty store for that?

Can the person administering the test answer those questions correctly?

Live lobster - yes, I could have guessed lobster, but then I haven't had brain surgery - isn't generally available other than at the coast where you could actually buy it at the pierhead. A few years ago there was a very funny article in one of the weekend newspapers about Top Chef recipe books and how the recipes in them aren't something that the average household cook could do, and the starter was lobster ravioli that required a live lobster. The reviewer, living in one of the largest cities in the UK, couldn't find anywhere to sell her a live lobster. I would have no idea of where to go for one. I think that anywhere large enough to have a permanent fish market - London or Birmingham, maybe Manchester - could produce one, but the average supermarket? No.

I gather there was nearly blood spilled over the pronouncement that 'this picture shows men are playing soccer and wearing shorts. What season is it? Must be summer'. Um, no. The football - not soccer - season starts on 1st August and runs until the second week in May, and professional football players wear shorts all through the season - so men in shorts playing football could be any season.

I expect the questioner can answer the questions - as I say, I could answer most of them - but since the point of asking is to establish that the patient's own natural vocabulary is complete and available, the test really is an Epic Fail, and tempers are being lost on a truly awesome scale.

HoneyBee42

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5630 on: May 22, 2014, 09:58:07 AM »
A friend of mine, a newspaper reporter, had to have surgery to remove a benign tumor from his auditory nerve in late 2000 (the timing here is important). To get to the tumor, surgeons had to literally lift up his brain. So although it technically wasn't brain surgery, they had to check his brain function after.

"What's your name?" [Name]
"Do you know where you are?" [Hospital name]
"What day is it?" "Wednesday"
"Who's President?" "I don't know, and neither do you."

The medical team cracked up. It was the disputed period after the Bush-Gore election debacle.

the last one reminds me of my grandmother, when, at age 97, she had to go into a nursing home. They asked her certain questions, to test her mental status. Things such as her name, how old was she, where is she, which she passed with flying colors. Then they got to "who is president?" Her response: "Bill Clinton, but I don't have much use for him, Hillary either" Apparently she cracked up the entire staff!
My mom cracked up the staff--she had had a grand mal seizure and was in the hospital (it was her first, and thanks to her meds, so far her only--she had also had a really unlucky fall/landing in the process that resulted in a lot of blood).  So they're doing the "count backwards from 100 by 7s" and she said "100, 93, eighty--oh, I never was good at math".  (She really isn't bad at math--she passed calculus in college with an A, for crying out loud.)

And yes, the whole thing about what kind of school it is--we have a primary center (K-3), a grade school (4-5) middle school (6-8) and high school (9-12).  But some of the schools that lead to the same high school have different patterns.  When I was in school, we had elementary/grade school K-6, jr high 7-8, and high school 9-12.  The same building that was my elementary school is now a primary school only up to 2nd grade.

gramma dishes

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5631 on: May 22, 2014, 10:02:22 AM »

...  So they're doing the "count backwards from 100 by 7s" and she said "100, 93, eighty--oh, I never was good at math".  ...


That's a really mean question to ask most people.  Some are exceptionally good with math and would have absolutely no trouble doing that.  But it has been a known fact for decades that of all the primary numbers to subtract (backwards), seven is by far the most difficult.  That's why they chose it and it really shows nothing about the person's mental capability;  they just might have trouble with the number seven even if they had not been ill or injured!

Outdoor Girl

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5632 on: May 22, 2014, 10:11:23 AM »

...  So they're doing the "count backwards from 100 by 7s" and she said "100, 93, eighty--oh, I never was good at math".  ...


That's a really mean question to ask most people.  Some are exceptionally good with math and would have absolutely no trouble doing that.  But it has been a known fact for decades that of all the primary numbers to subtract (backwards), seven is by far the most difficult.  That's why they chose it and it really shows nothing about the person's mental capability;  they just might have trouble with the number seven even if they had not been ill or injured!

Seriously.  I'm pretty smart, if I do say so myself.  And I could probably count upwards by 7, no problem.  But asking me to count backwards by 7, especially starting with a number not divisible 7, even without a brain injury?  I'd have a heck of a time.
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wolfie

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5633 on: May 22, 2014, 10:15:23 AM »

Second one has to be lobster - do they not sell live lobster where you are? Or you would have to go to a specialty store for that?

Can the person administering the test answer those questions correctly?

Live lobster - yes, I could have guessed lobster, but then I haven't had brain surgery - isn't generally available other than at the coast where you could actually buy it at the pierhead. A few years ago there was a very funny article in one of the weekend newspapers about Top Chef recipe books and how the recipes in them aren't something that the average household cook could do, and the starter was lobster ravioli that required a live lobster. The reviewer, living in one of the largest cities in the UK, couldn't find anywhere to sell her a live lobster. I would have no idea of where to go for one. I think that anywhere large enough to have a permanent fish market - London or Birmingham, maybe Manchester - could produce one, but the average supermarket? No.

I gather there was nearly blood spilled over the pronouncement that 'this picture shows men are playing soccer and wearing shorts. What season is it? Must be summer'. Um, no. The football - not soccer - season starts on 1st August and runs until the second week in May, and professional football players wear shorts all through the season - so men in shorts playing football could be any season.

I expect the questioner can answer the questions - as I say, I could answer most of them - but since the point of asking is to establish that the patient's own natural vocabulary is complete and available, the test really is an Epic Fail, and tempers are being lost on a truly awesome scale.

I guess yes you could answer them, but can you answer them without thinking about it? Because I am assuming that is what is trying to be tested. And if the answer is no then the testers are being really dumb. I hope this gets changed quickly!

Ms_Cellany

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5634 on: May 22, 2014, 10:16:50 AM »

...  So they're doing the "count backwards from 100 by 7s" and she said "100, 93, eighty--oh, I never was good at math".  ...


That's a really mean question to ask most people.  Some are exceptionally good with math and would have absolutely no trouble doing that.  But it has been a known fact for decades that of all the primary numbers to subtract (backwards), seven is by far the most difficult.  That's why they chose it and it really shows nothing about the person's mental capability;  they just might have trouble with the number seven even if they had not been ill or injured!

Seriously.  I'm pretty smart, if I do say so myself.  And I could probably count upwards by 7, no problem.  But asking me to count backwards by 7, especially starting with a number not divisible 7, even without a brain injury?  I'd have a heck of a time.

The only time I've been asked to do that is when I've been given anesthesia. I figured it was because it *is* a difficult mental task, so it keeps your brain distracted while medical things are happening to you.
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Yvaine

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5635 on: May 22, 2014, 10:30:20 AM »
A friend of mine, a newspaper reporter, had to have surgery to remove a benign tumor from his auditory nerve in late 2000 (the timing here is important). To get to the tumor, surgeons had to literally lift up his brain. So although it technically wasn't brain surgery, they had to check his brain function after.

"What's your name?" [Name]
"Do you know where you are?" [Hospital name]
"What day is it?" "Wednesday"
"Who's President?" "I don't know, and neither do you."

The medical team cracked up. It was the disputed period after the Bush-Gore election debacle.

 ;D ;D ;D


Carotte

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5637 on: May 22, 2014, 10:46:42 AM »

...  So they're doing the "count backwards from 100 by 7s" and she said "100, 93, eighty--oh, I never was good at math".  ...


That's a really mean question to ask most people.  Some are exceptionally good with math and would have absolutely no trouble doing that.  But it has been a known fact for decades that of all the primary numbers to subtract (backwards), seven is by far the most difficult.  That's why they chose it and it really shows nothing about the person's mental capability;  they just might have trouble with the number seven even if they had not been ill or injured!

Seriously.  I'm pretty smart, if I do say so myself.  And I could probably count upwards by 7, no problem.  But asking me to count backwards by 7, especially starting with a number not divisible 7, even without a brain injury?  I'd have a heck of a time.

I don't know if it's actually used in the real world, but TV portrays cops asking drivers to recite the alphabet backward to see if they're drunk or not  :o. I might have more chance to do it with alcohol in my system since I'm pretty sure I could never do it sober.

Here they use Breathalyzer, you know, an impartial and scientific way to measure alcohol levels..

jedikaiti

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5638 on: May 22, 2014, 10:49:01 AM »
Junior high is 7-8 here
Middle is 6 th

Some districts have primary k-2
Intermediate  3-5
Middle 6,
Jh 7-8
Hs 9-12

In San Angelo 2feeder
Patterns
Central hs
Elementary k-6
Jh 7-9
Hs 10-12

Lake view
Elem k-5
Jh 6-8
Hs 9-12

When I was student teaching a girl transferred to central feeder pattern her family threw fits about her being demoted back to elementary

See, in my experience, grade/elementary school was grades K-6. Then I moved to the midwest, went to a junior high for one year (grades 7-9). Then they rearranged things, made the junior high a middle school (grades 7 & 8) and moved 9th grade in with the ("senior") high school (now grades 9-12). I've only ever seen one school where 6th was not part of elementary school, and that was a private school that a family friend's kid went to. The local public schools, I believe, still did K-6 as elementary, then on to junior high/middle school, etc.

Wide variations all over the place!
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nutraxfornerves

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #5639 on: May 22, 2014, 11:08:04 AM »
Mr. Nutrax had a couple of strokes and I sat with him several times during similar assessments. The "subtract by 7s" is not a test of math, but rather a test of attention span and ability to concentrate. Math accuracy is not as important as how the patient focuses on the task. Spelling a simple word backwards is another version.

Back to PD. I don't think I posted this one before. A friend worked for a major government agency, that bought vehicles by the hundreds each year. Vehicles were delivered to a central garage where inspectors checked each one before delivery to the office that needed it. My friend went to the garage and picked up a new pick up  truck. About 20 miles down the road the engine suddenly died. The repair place discovered that the truck had no oil in it. The engine was ruined. Several other trucks scheduled for my friend's office were found to be in the same condition, fortunately before being driven.

A check showed that Inspector "Smith" had signed off on the paperwork for those trucks, certifying that all was well. Someone decided to look into more of Smith's inspections. Among other things, Smith had approved vehicles that did not meet the specification of the purchase order--for example, an X-size engine instead of a 2X engine. The auditors interviewed other offices that had picked up cars that Smith approved and discovered more problems, such as no windshield wiper fluid or a missing door handle.

Turned out that Smith did most of his inspections by sitting in his office with a pile of forms. He did wander around looking at vehicles every so often, so his co-workers didn't notice that he really wasn't doing much. Although civil service rules in that agency made it really hard to fire someone, in Smith's case it wasn't at all difficult.

Nutrax
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