Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1252497 times)

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ladymaureen

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3240 on: January 07, 2013, 08:49:03 PM »

Here is the PD part. He took a week off mid-December, returned and worked a few days before our eleven day holiday break and then took the first three days of the new year off. He is an hourly employee and gets three weeks of vacation a year, and has already used two weeks in the last month, plus the time we were closed. Before he came back to work (today), he had already contacted his manager about taking a week off in March and another in May. He has only been here a year, so he has used all the time he has accrued, and will not accrue another week by his March requested time off.

Well ... it's not necessarily PD to ask for time off. He asked for permission, and his manager said yes. So, that's between him and his manager, right? If he runs out of vacation time, then he may have to take unpaid time. Still not PD, in my opinion.

ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3241 on: January 08, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »

Here is the PD part. He took a week off mid-December, returned and worked a few days before our eleven day holiday break and then took the first three days of the new year off. He is an hourly employee and gets three weeks of vacation a year, and has already used two weeks in the last month, plus the time we were closed. Before he came back to work (today), he had already contacted his manager about taking a week off in March and another in May. He has only been here a year, so he has used all the time he has accrued, and will not accrue another week by his March requested time off.

Well ... it's not necessarily PD to ask for time off. He asked for permission, and his manager said yes. So, that's between him and his manager, right? If he runs out of vacation time, then he may have to take unpaid time. Still not PD, in my opinion.

There is no allowance for unpaid time barring family or medical leave. He has been told he can't take any more vacation time until he accrues enough leave. Unfortunately, when he is away, we have to find staff to fill in, to keep the front desk manned and it is becoming a big issue.

MissRose

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3242 on: January 08, 2013, 08:52:13 AM »
I would say the person with the issues with the person taking so much time off in a short time as described could be a candidate for PD.  Yes, we are entitled to use our vacation time at work.  At the same time, if I was a manager, I would not have approved so much off time off in that short period of time for someone who is new.  I know I took very little time off right at the beginning of starting a new job that I have been at for a long time now (first 3 to 6 months) to show my dedication and learning my job duties.

Midnight Kitty

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3243 on: January 08, 2013, 11:57:48 AM »
If I had a new employee who was "on vacation" that much, the next time s/he asked for a week off when s/he had not accrued enough vacation time, I would say s/he could take the vacation requested.  In fact, they could stay on vacation because we had learned how to function without them at work. >:D

Long ago, when I first met DH, I was employed with a prestigious engineering firm.  The position was over my head.  They took a chance with me, but it was clear that I needed a master's degree to do the work.  DH, then my fiance, scored last minute tickets to a ball game.  I called in and asked if I could take vacation that day to attend a ball game.  I knew my notice was coming any day & didn't want to miss the game for a job I knew I couldn't keep anyway.  Still ... when they agreed without hesitation, I knew they didn't need me there.  Time for job hunting ...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 12:01:18 PM by Midnight Kitty »
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snowflake

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3244 on: January 08, 2013, 01:14:48 PM »
I would say the person with the issues with the person taking so much time off in a short time as described could be a candidate for PD.  Yes, we are entitled to use our vacation time at work.  At the same time, if I was a manager, I would not have approved so much off time off in that short period of time for someone who is new.  I know I took very little time off right at the beginning of starting a new job that I have been at for a long time now (first 3 to 6 months) to show my dedication and learning my job duties.

I must agree.  I think one of the basic rules of keeping a job is to not tax the resources of those around them.

I also think that even if you aren't in your career of choice, you are hurting your chances of a real job if you blow off the just-for-now job.  When he applies for a "real job" he's probably going to have his co-workers say, "Well we really couldn't count on him." which is going to hurt.

I know managers who will approve time off because they don't know how to say no.  It's not fair that they aren't giving honest feedback, but it still is up to the employee to show some awareness here. 

Ceallach

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3245 on: January 08, 2013, 05:31:42 PM »
I'm starting to think one of my staff is heading down the PD route.      She can't seem to prioritize her work correctly.   She works hard, gets lots done, but somehow she manages to ignore the really important things such as when myself or my boss (the CEO) send her important tasks or even simple questions, or where she has unhappy clients etc.   She'll offer to help other staff and take over basic tasks from them even when she has emails from us outstanding or things I've asked her to do that she hasn't done.   So while she's working, she's ignoring the work she *should* be doing!  I've spoken to her so many times about this but it doesn't seem to sink in.   I feel I have to start micromanaging her more and more to get her focused on the right tasks. 


Example of the kind of thing that happens:

1. Something goes wrong over the weekend at one of our jobsites, "Kate" should have followed up Monday to let the client know, but made a mistake and forgot (that's ok, it happens)
2. On Tuesday morning the client emails her asking what happened on Saturday and why she (the client) hadn't been notified about it.   The client cc's our CEO which indicates she thinks it's a Big Deal.
3. Two hours later I notice Kate still hasn't replied or done anything with the email from the client.   I forward it on to her and remind her that it's super urgent, and also clearly note how she should handle it.  No response.
4. In the afternoon I'm in meeting and I call Kate and ask if she's replied yet.  She says no.   I explain that it's crucial she replies to the client by COB, and give her very clear, step-by-step instructions as to what to put in the email (basically just answering the questions the client had asked!).  I confirm she understands, I repeat back.   

Did it happen?   Nope.  I ask why, she says "Oh Nancy emailed <client> because she was working on XYZ".  I look at what Nancy (who works in another department) has emailed to the client - it's not a reply to the client's email, and includes none of what I asked Kate to put in the email.    < face palm >.    These are not difficult instructions by the way.   We're talking about a basic response to questions e.g. "I apologise for not notifying you on Monday, it was an oversight. What happened on Saturday was _________."   Not hard!  And it's the tiny things like that e.g. communicating well that keep a client happy!

This is just one example - and it's one where I was micromanaging the situation (which I hate having to do!) to avoid it happening.  The sad part is that I think it's because she overthinks the big things - she is so concerned about getting them right she leaves them sitting there and mulls them over, instead of just getting them done.   Unfortunately at some point soon I'll have to start performance managing her for this as it's driving our CEO crazy - the other day she emailed a request to Kate saying "Can you please confirm for me what you did about XYZ, please reply by X day as I need to let <important client> know" and gets NO response to that or her follow-ups, even when I was also verbally reminding Kate too that she needed to reply to the CEO's email.      It makes me sad, because Kate is lovely and despite all of the above she is very capable, she just seems to be missing a very important point - doing what your boss and the company want you to do is the most important part of doing your job, not flitting around doing whatever YOU think needs doing!
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starofwinter

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3246 on: January 08, 2013, 09:36:49 PM »
I don't work at the place anymore, but I was just informed that one of my former coworkers (great worker and a coordinator in the store) has been sacked.  Why?  Because he was going to a friend's house and was bringing a bottle of alcohol, and stored it in his locker during his shift.  When a coworker (notoriously immature and a terrible worker, but a favorite of the manager) demanded he give her some - still on the clock - he refused, and she reported him to the manager.   Moral of the story?  Don't bring alcohol to work, and don't tick off the manager's pet.

Midnight Kitty

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3247 on: January 09, 2013, 02:14:27 PM »
I don't work at the place anymore, but I was just informed that one of my former coworkers (great worker and a coordinator in the store) has been sacked.  Why?  Because he was going to a friend's house and was bringing a bottle of alcohol, and stored it in his locker during his shift.  When a coworker (notoriously immature and a terrible worker, but a favorite of the manager) demanded he give her some - still on the clock - he refused, and she reported him to the manager.   Moral of the story?  Don't bring alcohol to work, and don't tick off the manager's pet.
I hate those "zero tolerance" rules.  I work for the government, so "no alcohol at work" is one of those "zero tolerance" rules.  It doesn't matter why the bottle is there.  It isn't necessary that you consume any at work.  Having the bottle there is reason enough for termination. ::)

My DH, who does not drink, was given a 6 pack of beer from one of his fans for the holidays.  My supervisor at the time likes to drink beer.  I asked him if he wanted the 6 pack.  We made the exchange in the street in front of our workplace, not even in the parking lot.  My former supervisor is less than 1 year from retirement and he's not messing that up for a 6 pack of beer. >:D
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Moray

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3248 on: January 10, 2013, 06:01:09 PM »
I would say the person with the issues with the person taking so much time off in a short time as described could be a candidate for PD.  Yes, we are entitled to use our vacation time at work.  At the same time, if I was a manager, I would not have approved so much off time off in that short period of time for someone who is new.  I know I took very little time off right at the beginning of starting a new job that I have been at for a long time now (first 3 to 6 months) to show my dedication and learning my job duties.

Did you just tell ladyknight1 she was the PD candidate in your eyes? Or am I misreading your intent?
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ladyknight1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3249 on: January 10, 2013, 08:40:03 PM »
Well, it wouldn't be me that is having to fill in for the receptionist. The team he works for has three people in total, and only one can be gone at any specific time. The problem is, he wants to take time that is already spoken for, and has basically stated that he will be taking the time off whether or not it is approved. He is just going to work his way out of a job.

ladymaureen

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3250 on: January 11, 2013, 08:48:11 PM »
Well, it wouldn't be me that is having to fill in for the receptionist. The team he works for has three people in total, and only one can be gone at any specific time. The problem is, he wants to take time that is already spoken for, and has basically stated that he will be taking the time off whether or not it is approved. He is just going to work his way out of a job.
Okay, with that background, it is definitely Professional Darwinism. I didn't realize he had said he would take the time regardless.

WolfWay

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3251 on: January 15, 2013, 11:31:04 PM »
Slight update to our new coworker who insisted that his way had worked for 16 years and he wasn't going to change it now...

He has handed one of his changes over to another analyst because despite getting access to our code repository (usually a total no-no for analysts, who shouldn't NEED to see the code to make a decision about something) he insisted that he "didn't get access to the code in time", which utterly baffles me because there is no hard set deadline on this change, so I don't know what "in time" he's talking about.

He has also moved desks in the open plan office to avoid myself and the senior analyst who sits near me, and has basically started blanking both me (who is the assigned developer on his big project) and the senior analyst (who holds all the knowledge about the database tables he will be working with). He hasn't said a single word to me or the senior analyst in three weeks, he's had a blow up with the project manager, he barely attends project meetings (and when he does attend, sits through the meeting sullen and silent, looking bored out of his mind, and contributing nothing to the design of the solution he is going to be working on) and is just generally offending most of the project team he is going to be spending the next few months working with.

He's been here three months and has only had one code change go live, and that was only because the senior analyst got the helling and wrote the change herself.

If you're that unhappy here, just leave!  >:(
It's best to love your family as you would a Siberian Tiger - from a distance, preferably separated by bars . -- Pearls Before Swine (16-May-2009)

Iris

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3252 on: January 15, 2013, 11:38:01 PM »
Slight update to our new coworker who insisted that his way had worked for 16 years and he wasn't going to change it now...

He has handed one of his changes over to another analyst because despite getting access to our code repository (usually a total no-no for analysts, who shouldn't NEED to see the code to make a decision about something) he insisted that he "didn't get access to the code in time", which utterly baffles me because there is no hard set deadline on this change, so I don't know what "in time" he's talking about.

He has also moved desks in the open plan office to avoid myself and the senior analyst who sits near me, and has basically started blanking both me (who is the assigned developer on his big project) and the senior analyst (who holds all the knowledge about the database tables he will be working with). He hasn't said a single word to me or the senior analyst in three weeks, he's had a blow up with the project manager, he barely attends project meetings (and when he does attend, sits through the meeting sullen and silent, looking bored out of his mind, and contributing nothing to the design of the solution he is going to be working on) and is just generally offending most of the project team he is going to be spending the next few months working with.

He's been here three months and has only had one code change go live, and that was only because the senior analyst got the helling and wrote the change herself.

If you're that unhappy here, just leave!  >:(

 :o  ???  :o And he's still employed because...
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WolfWay

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3253 on: January 15, 2013, 11:48:27 PM »
Slight update to our new coworker who insisted that his way had worked for 16 years and he wasn't going to change it now...

He has handed one of his changes over to another analyst because despite getting access to our code repository (usually a total no-no for analysts, who shouldn't NEED to see the code to make a decision about something) he insisted that he "didn't get access to the code in time", which utterly baffles me because there is no hard set deadline on this change, so I don't know what "in time" he's talking about.

He has also moved desks in the open plan office to avoid myself and the senior analyst who sits near me, and has basically started blanking both me (who is the assigned developer on his big project) and the senior analyst (who holds all the knowledge about the database tables he will be working with). He hasn't said a single word to me or the senior analyst in three weeks, he's had a blow up with the project manager, he barely attends project meetings (and when he does attend, sits through the meeting sullen and silent, looking bored out of his mind, and contributing nothing to the design of the solution he is going to be working on) and is just generally offending most of the project team he is going to be spending the next few months working with.

He's been here three months and has only had one code change go live, and that was only because the senior analyst got the helling and wrote the change herself.

If you're that unhappy here, just leave!  >:(

 :o  ???  :o And he's still employed because...
I think our boss is reluctant to admit he made a mistake hiring him. Or something, I don't know. He refuses to get rid of deadweight in our dept (there are three of them right now) and insists on doing performance management on them (insisting they upskill themselves etc), so I thinking maybe he's giving them enough rope to hang themselves with, or building up HR documentation or something. I hope.
It's best to love your family as you would a Siberian Tiger - from a distance, preferably separated by bars . -- Pearls Before Swine (16-May-2009)

greencat

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3254 on: January 16, 2013, 02:19:56 AM »
Slight update to our new coworker who insisted that his way had worked for 16 years and he wasn't going to change it now...

He has handed one of his changes over to another analyst because despite getting access to our code repository (usually a total no-no for analysts, who shouldn't NEED to see the code to make a decision about something) he insisted that he "didn't get access to the code in time", which utterly baffles me because there is no hard set deadline on this change, so I don't know what "in time" he's talking about.

He has also moved desks in the open plan office to avoid myself and the senior analyst who sits near me, and has basically started blanking both me (who is the assigned developer on his big project) and the senior analyst (who holds all the knowledge about the database tables he will be working with). He hasn't said a single word to me or the senior analyst in three weeks, he's had a blow up with the project manager, he barely attends project meetings (and when he does attend, sits through the meeting sullen and silent, looking bored out of his mind, and contributing nothing to the design of the solution he is going to be working on) and is just generally offending most of the project team he is going to be spending the next few months working with.

He's been here three months and has only had one code change go live, and that was only because the senior analyst got the helling and wrote the change herself.

If you're that unhappy here, just leave!  >:(

 :o  ???  :o And he's still employed because...
I think our boss is reluctant to admit he made a mistake hiring him. Or something, I don't know. He refuses to get rid of deadweight in our dept (there are three of them right now) and insists on doing performance management on them (insisting they upskill themselves etc), so I thinking maybe he's giving them enough rope to hang themselves with, or building up HR documentation or something. I hope.

At least your PD candidate has a complex job.  At my work, the candidate for PD who is getting managed this way is the dishwasher.  He is beyond lazy - he appears to be actively unwilling to do his work.  The management had the awesome dishwasher who works in the mornings stay for the guy's night shift and "go over the closing procedures" with him again - basically, the good guy ended up having to work a twenty-hour day to do this training.  They don't want to acknowledge that the problem that we've all observed the bad dishwasher having isn't a lack of knowledge of how to do his job, it's that he just refuses to do it until the other staff snaps and starts getting angry at him.  The dishpit looks like a cartoon catastrophe while this guy is "working."  He will sit there with the dishes piled up around him  and the trash can overflowing and play on his phone.  It's not like he finishes it up before he leaves either - he leaves piles and piles of stuff for the next dishwasher to do.  I'm all for giving people chances and retraining employees who aren't "getting it," but this guy is purposefully not working, and they should have fired him before his probationary period ended.  Yes - this guy has been doing this for at least three months, and he's only been there for four.