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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 3606229 times)

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mmswm

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3330 on: February 01, 2013, 09:39:20 AM »
That said when I was in uni our plagarism declaration included a sentence about that we had not submitted any portion of that essay for grading before

Ours had the same line, but we could quote ourselves as long as it was properly cited. It was before my time, but if I remember the story correctly, a professor failed a student for the entire class over a paper in which the student had quoted, and properly cited, a previous essay.  The student challenged the professor, and it wound up before the honor council.  The honor council decided that it was not improper to include one's own previous work when the previous work is relevant, quoted and cited.
Some people lift weights.  I lift measures.  It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

sunnygirl

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3331 on: February 01, 2013, 10:37:13 AM »
My university's English department had a rule you weren't allowed to use work from previous papers, or study a specific topic you'd recently studied before (with certain exceptions), on the basis that you should be learning something new every class. So if you studied Hamlet for a class last year, you couldn't choose again Hamlet for a class this year.

One of my best friends is an actress with the RSC, and she went back to university as a mature student. One of her classes was on Shakespeare, and the tutor tried to reject a paper she wrote because she'd mentioned in a casual conversation once that she'd once performed in that play, by invoking the 'don't repeat classes' rule. My friend pointed out that that was a pretty liberal interpretation of the rule, and that as a Shakespearean actress she would have a big problem studying Shakespeare at all with that rule!

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3332 on: February 01, 2013, 11:00:06 AM »
So, I'm the poster who started the student darwinism topic, with my post on two women in the class I'm TAing who handed in identical homeworks.

We also just had a quiz in the course and I handed back those graded papers as well. One of the women came to me and said she felt that she had gotten an answer correct that I had taken points off for. I looked at the paper and what she wrote was flat out wrong. When I told her I couldn't give points for wrong answers, she told me she didn't believe she was wrong. At that point I said "Well, in science it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what research has already been done. Your answer doesn't reflect the information in the lectures, the textbooks or any published research on the topic."

BabylonSister

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3333 on: February 01, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
This one is school-related but it was the teacher who committed potential PD.  Even though it's been many, many years, I will remain rather fuzzy on the details on purpose.


The whole focus of French high school is the baccalauréat, or "bac", a test that we must pass to enter university or any kind of undergraduate school, as well as qualifying for the lowest-ranked government jobs.  For three years, we live, think, breathe bac.  It does not just involve having knowledge but also writing structured essays on a variety of topics.  Every year, the bac questions are chosen regionally by a panel of teachers.  It's an honor to be one of them.  Because of cheating and fraud concerns, the questions are shrouded in secrecy until the day of the test. 


One of my teachers (Mr. Teacher) casually mentioned, during my final year of HS, that he was in that panel.  Somehow I filed that information away and didn't think of it.  During the year, we had a bac practice.  We had to take, either questions from previous bac sessions, or questions made up by the teachers, in every topic, and we passed the test under the same conditions as the official one, but of course the results did not count. 


Near the very end of the school year, as we were only days away from the grueling series of bac tests,  student attendance started going down because some were at home, madly scrambling to catch up.  My friend "Rachel" and I, being the two biggest goody-two-shoes of the school, attended until the very last day.  On that last day, we were the only two students in our class.  We showed up for our class with Mr Teacher, who paused for a minute and then figured out we could always work on reviewing what Rachel and I had produced for the bac practice.  The topic was, let's say, fluffy bunnies.  He pulled out our essays on the topic, which consisted in analyzing various documents of fluffy bunnies, and we discussed what we did right and wrong.


Two or three days later, it was time for our bac test in that subject.  One of the questions was "Analyze those documents about fluffy bunnies."  It was all fresh in our memories.  I think the documents were either the same, or very similar.  We both got a pretty decent grade.


I'm sure Mr. Teacher was not supposed to use for the bac practice the exact question he knew was coming up for the real stuff.  I think maybe, when he saw that Rachel and I bothered coming to school until the very last day, he decided to reward us by giving us a pretty big hand.  We never mentioned it to anyone, and I don't know if he ever got in trouble for it.  It would not have just been professional trouble, but legal as well.  Bac fraud is severely punished.

MariaE

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3334 on: February 01, 2013, 01:31:00 PM »
So, I'm the poster who started the student darwinism topic, with my post on two women in the class I'm TAing who handed in identical homeworks.

We also just had a quiz in the course and I handed back those graded papers as well. One of the women came to me and said she felt that she had gotten an answer correct that I had taken points off for. I looked at the paper and what she wrote was flat out wrong. When I told her I couldn't give points for wrong answers, she told me she didn't believe she was wrong. At that point I said "Well, in science it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what research has already been done. Your answer doesn't reflect the information in the lectures, the textbooks or any published research on the topic."

Curious - if she brought published research that had somehow slipped your notice and which supported her answer, would you have accepted it?

(Not snarky, just curious :) )
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

Elfmama

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3335 on: February 01, 2013, 02:08:05 PM »
So, I'm the poster who started the student darwinism topic, with my post on two women in the class I'm TAing who handed in identical homeworks.

We also just had a quiz in the course and I handed back those graded papers as well. One of the women came to me and said she felt that she had gotten an answer correct that I had taken points off for. I looked at the paper and what she wrote was flat out wrong. When I told her I couldn't give points for wrong answers, she told me she didn't believe she was wrong. At that point I said "Well, in science it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what research has already been done. Your answer doesn't reflect the information in the lectures, the textbooks or any published research on the topic."
But she's ENTITLED to her opinion that the sun revolves around the earth!!!!!  She can prove it -- just  look out any window around sunset!!!!!!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Common sense is not a gift, but a curse.  Because then
you have to deal with all the people who don't have it.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3336 on: February 01, 2013, 05:00:49 PM »
This may not count as PD, because the guy in question has already been fired, but he sure as heck shot himself in the foot for getting future jobs ...

This guy, let's call him Jim, was let go from the company I worked for.  I don't know why, but I'm assuming the supervisor had good reasons.  Jim did not take it well and sent her an e-mail that basically said "I'll make you sorry.  I know where you live, and I know where your children go to school."   :o

Right.  Threatening violence on someone and her small children - in print - was reallly smart.  And yet he seemed surprised when the cops showed up at his door.

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3337 on: February 01, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »
So, I'm the poster who started the student darwinism topic, with my post on two women in the class I'm TAing who handed in identical homeworks.

We also just had a quiz in the course and I handed back those graded papers as well. One of the women came to me and said she felt that she had gotten an answer correct that I had taken points off for. I looked at the paper and what she wrote was flat out wrong. When I told her I couldn't give points for wrong answers, she told me she didn't believe she was wrong. At that point I said "Well, in science it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what research has already been done. Your answer doesn't reflect the information in the lectures, the textbooks or any published research on the topic."

Curious - if she brought published research that had somehow slipped your notice and which supported her answer, would you have accepted it?

(Not snarky, just curious :) )

If it was from a reputable source and fairly recent I'd pass it on to the professor for consideration. If she pulled out a study from the 1930s that says smoking cures asthma, not so much.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3338 on: February 01, 2013, 10:24:09 PM »
Does TurnItIn still automatically keep the text from all the papers submitted and add them to its database?  That's the part I have a problem with  :-\  I can definitely see how it would help catch plagiarists, though!
They do...and it's very nice for detecting when your students from last semester have passed/sold their papers to someone in your class this semester.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3339 on: February 01, 2013, 10:27:04 PM »
Does TurnItIn still automatically keep the text from all the papers submitted and add them to its database?  That's the part I have a problem with  :-\  I can definitely see how it would help catch plagiarists, though!

I think it does!  A friend of mine got 'dinged' for plagarism recently, when she was quoting HER OWN PAPER that she had written in a previous class!
You still have to cite yourself, even if it's an unpublished manuscript.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3340 on: February 01, 2013, 10:33:30 PM »
Also many students will run their own work through it first, to check they haven't accidentally got too close - then if the teacher also does it, well turnitin has seen 100% of this paper before
THat's why I have the students submit their own work...they can run it through and get the benefits of the grammar checking, revise, and resubmit- and it shows up as drafts of the same paper, rather than as separate papers.
If you get a 100% hit to the student himself, then that's pretty obvious what happened. If, as I did, you get a 99% hit for 40 different sources, then that's pretty obvious, too.

doodlemor

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3341 on: February 01, 2013, 11:10:34 PM »
The hydroponic thread reminded me of some criminals who Darwined themselves out of employment in a nearby Mayberry-like village.

They rented a closed up factory building, and filled it full of marijuana plants growing under many, many plant lights.  They had so many lights lit up 24/7 that the weed growing business was using more electricity than the rest of the town!  Small town people sometimes are especially curious about new neighbors, and someone noticed the huge amount of electricity being used.

The hydroponic weed business was ended with a pre-dawn raid by federal, state, and local law enforcement.  The locals had an exciting topic of conversation for quite a while.




MariaE

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3342 on: February 02, 2013, 01:53:08 AM »
So, I'm the poster who started the student darwinism topic, with my post on two women in the class I'm TAing who handed in identical homeworks.

We also just had a quiz in the course and I handed back those graded papers as well. One of the women came to me and said she felt that she had gotten an answer correct that I had taken points off for. I looked at the paper and what she wrote was flat out wrong. When I told her I couldn't give points for wrong answers, she told me she didn't believe she was wrong. At that point I said "Well, in science it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what research has already been done. Your answer doesn't reflect the information in the lectures, the textbooks or any published research on the topic."

Curious - if she brought published research that had somehow slipped your notice and which supported her answer, would you have accepted it?

(Not snarky, just curious :) )

If it was from a reputable source and fairly recent I'd pass it on to the professor for consideration. If she pulled out a study from the 1930s that says smoking cures asthma, not so much.

Hehe - fair enough  ;)
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3343 on: February 02, 2013, 10:03:38 AM »
The hydroponic thread reminded me of some criminals who Darwined themselves out of employment in a nearby Mayberry-like village.
That's why I lost interest in Tom Clancy novels. I'd always assumed he knew what he was talking about, until one of his novels involved some bad guys creating a secret compound in Western Kansas. One thing I know as a Kansan, there is NO way someone can buy up land, and put in a secret compound, and the neighbors will be so totally disinterested that no one goes out poking around. It isn't like there's just huge tracts of land and no one can get near your land- there's county roads all over the place. I figured if he'd written that without researching, he probably wrote a lot of his stuff without researching.
That, and I was tired of reading about how often the bad guys 'destroyed their night vision' by lighting cigarettes. Apparently bad guys are really stupid, or they don't read Tom Clancy books.  >:D

GSNW

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3344 on: February 02, 2013, 10:59:33 AM »
Update on SS teacher!  The ELA classes have been doing lessons on advertising and propaganda.  Students engaged in lessons which required them to analyze ads and create some of their own.  Instead of letting the kids goose their own ads and topics, he assigned them.  Okay.  Class periods were given themes, like cars, clothes... and, uh, on class period focused exclusively on booze.

In the 7th grade.

Parents and admin were not amused.