Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1469366 times)

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Syfygeek

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3870 on: June 12, 2013, 10:46:52 AM »
OK, my imagination is running wild... "High tea on the rhino hunt"?

thick unruly hair
Pith helmet
thick glasses
3 piece suit
gold watch
signet ring
canvas overcoat
bushwalking boots in the winter
leather sandals in the summer
cane optional

I had always wondered at what point did Van Pelt from Jumanji turn crazy. Now I know

That's exactly who I pictured!
That's my purse! I don't know you!

RegionMom

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3871 on: June 12, 2013, 11:01:52 AM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search. 

Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.

TeamBhakta

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3872 on: June 12, 2013, 11:50:52 AM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

cwm

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3873 on: June 12, 2013, 11:55:05 AM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green, PhD"

The other situation I can see it coming up is the difference between Dr. Green and Professor Green at a college. We had a few teachers at my college who couldn't care less, so long as you showed up for class and passed them, and we had a few who if you called them by the wrong title got very snippy.

z_squared82

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3874 on: June 12, 2013, 12:02:21 PM »
Finally got through it all!

And another one...

I work for a law firm as an assistant. I assist two lawyers. One of my lawyers was an associate, right out of law school, hadnít even passed the bar yet. Heíd come in at 10, leave at 4 (when the high-producing attorneys usually worked 8-6, or at least our office our of 8:30-5), and on slow days tell me to just go ahead home (which I never did because I knew he didnít actually have that authority. I just told him I had to stay to help cover the phones).

He gets fired for a variety of reasons, one of which Iím told a few months after he left.

Itís not uncommon for us assistants to draft documents. It saves the clients money and lets the lawyers spend more time working on a variety of things (i.e. instead of four hours drafting a complaint, we do it and they spend an hour tweaking it, freeing up those other three hours for something else and letting us only bill the clients for that one hour). Turns out, he would be asked to draft a document. He would then ask me to draft a document. I would send him my draft, which he would promptly send along to whichever partner asked for a draft WITHOUT CHANGING A THING, claiming he had done the whole thing himself. Not only was ďhisĒ writing not on par, but his billable hours were awful.

Pen^2

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3875 on: June 12, 2013, 12:10:56 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green, PhD"

The other situation I can see it coming up is the difference between Dr. Green and Professor Green at a college. We had a few teachers at my college who couldn't care less, so long as you showed up for class and passed them, and we had a few who if you called them by the wrong title got very snippy.

Yes... being called your title can be nice and it is reasonable to enforce it if people forget, but you can take it further than this, and that's what I dislike. I knew a teacher who wouldn't respond to a general masculine title like "sir" if a stranger was talking to him. He'd be getting coffee and the cashier would say, "here's your change, sir." He would snarl, "actually, it's doctor, I'll have you know." And refuse to leave until they repeated it with his correction.

I knew another guy who wouldn't answer to "excuse me" unless it had "doctor" stuck to the end. Even from absolute strangers, again, yes. I think this is what taking it too far is.

Thipu1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3876 on: June 12, 2013, 12:23:22 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything
wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green, PhD"

The other situation I can see it coming up is the difference between Dr. Green and Professor Green
at a college. We had a few teachers at my college who couldn't care less, so long as you showed up for class and passed them, and we had a few who if you called them by the wrong title got very snippy.

We had exactly the opposite situation with a scholar.  He was extremely well respected in his field. During life, he was  honored with a Festschrift and, after his death, a collection of his important articles was published.  However,  because he had to leave Germany in 1938, he never managed to get a Bachelor's degree let alone a Doctorate.

People would often refer to him as Dr. X.  He would always carefully correct them and say that he
was 'Mr. X'.  He taught at Columbia and NYU so he would allow himself to be referred to as 'Professor X'. 

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3877 on: June 12, 2013, 12:23:46 PM »
IOE, people make a point of having a 'degree' are usually very insecure about themselves.  I may mention that I have an MLS but only in the context of a post about library work. There, it may make sense.   

I once worked with someone who always introduced himself as 'Dr. X PhD'.  That is so wrong on many levels.
And guaranteed that other Ph.D.s snickered at him behind his back.
Personally, I go with the royal family of England's rule: introduce yourself by your NAME, and if you're sufficiently important, everyone's going to know the title anyway. If they don't, then you really aren't so important, are you?

Pen^2

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3878 on: June 12, 2013, 12:26:37 PM »
We had exactly the opposite situation with a scholar.  He was extremely well respected in his field. During life, he was  honored with a Festschrift and, after his death, a collection of his important articles was published.  However,  because he had to leave Germany in 1938, he never managed to get a Bachelor's degree let alone a Doctorate.

People would often refer to him as Dr. X.  He would always carefully correct them and say that he
was 'Mr. X'.  He taught at Columbia and NYU so he would allow himself to be referred to as 'Professor X'.

Charles Francis Xavier!??

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3879 on: June 12, 2013, 12:31:03 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"
The tradition for Ph.D.s is that you only use the title when you are conducting business related to your degree. Most Ph.D.s are Dr. Soandso at work, or when representing their employer or area of expertise (like in the interview example you gave) or when presenting at a conference...but not when making your airline reservation for travel, or in social situations. If I routinely called someone Dr. Soandso at work, I probably would call them Dr. Soandso away from work...but then, I work in a setting where we refer to each other when speaking to students as Dr., but we only address each other as Dr. when joking around.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3880 on: June 12, 2013, 12:36:28 PM »
Yes... being called your title can be nice and it is reasonable to enforce it if people forget, but you can take it further than this, and that's what I dislike. I knew a teacher who wouldn't respond to a general masculine title like "sir" if a stranger was talking to him. He'd be getting coffee and the cashier would say, "here's your change, sir." He would snarl, "actually, it's doctor, I'll have you know." And refuse to leave until they repeated it with his correction.

I knew another guy who wouldn't answer to "excuse me" unless it had "doctor" stuck to the end. Even from absolute strangers, again, yes. I think this is what taking it too far is.

In many graduate programs, the grad students (particularly doctoral students) are considered 'junior colleagues' so they address the faculty by first names. A friend of mine was taking a class for continuing education, and went to office hours of the professor.  She went into his office and he did not look up or acknowledge her in any way. She called him by name, and without looking up he said, 'That will be DOCTOR X to you, Miss Straley.' She replied, 'Then that will be DOCTOR Straley to YOU, Dr. X.' One of the few times in her life she ever insisted on being called Dr. by anyone.  >:D

NyaChan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3881 on: June 12, 2013, 12:42:13 PM »
Yes... being called your title can be nice and it is reasonable to enforce it if people forget, but you can take it further than this, and that's what I dislike. I knew a teacher who wouldn't respond to a general masculine title like "sir" if a stranger was talking to him. He'd be getting coffee and the cashier would say, "here's your change, sir." He would snarl, "actually, it's doctor, I'll have you know." And refuse to leave until they repeated it with his correction.

I knew another guy who wouldn't answer to "excuse me" unless it had "doctor" stuck to the end. Even from absolute strangers, again, yes. I think this is what taking it too far is.

In many graduate programs, the grad students (particularly doctoral students) are considered 'junior colleagues' so they address the faculty by first names. A friend of mine was taking a class for continuing education, and went to office hours of the professor.  She went into his office and he did not look up or acknowledge her in any way. She called him by name, and without looking up he said, 'That will be DOCTOR X to you, Miss Straley.' She replied, 'Then that will be DOCTOR Straley to YOU, Dr. X.' One of the few times in her life she ever insisted on being called Dr. by anyone.  >:D

Good for her!  I can understand wanting the more formal use of your title in appropriate settings, but there are polite ways of conveying that.  Pretty obvious this guy just wanted to shoot her down in an assertion of his perceived superiority.

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3882 on: June 12, 2013, 12:42:50 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"
The tradition for Ph.D.s is that you only use the title when you are conducting business related to your degree. Most Ph.D.s are Dr. Soandso at work, or when representing their employer or area of expertise (like in the interview example you gave) or when presenting at a conference...but not when making your airline reservation for travel, or in social situations. If I routinely called someone Dr. Soandso at work, I probably would call them Dr. Soandso away from work...but then, I work in a setting where we refer to each other when speaking to students as Dr., but we only address each other as Dr. when joking around.

I was also taught that referring to a PhD as "Doctor" was only for professional settings. In social settings or in personal correspondence (including wedding invitations) only M.D.'s should be referred to as "Doctor."

Slartibartfast

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3883 on: June 12, 2013, 01:41:08 PM »
The people that insist on being called 'doctor' and correct you, and these are not medical doctors, make me really appreciate the fact that two people that I met through their kids being friends with my kids actually have doctorates, and do not advertise it!

One I found out via a closing sig on e-mail, and another from his wife mentioning his job search.

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

This primarily ends up being a problem when a person with a PhD dispenses medical advice and goes by "doctor" when they're not actually a medical doctor.  (Dr. Phil, I'm looking at you!)

Winterlight

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3884 on: June 12, 2013, 01:41:40 PM »
My father likes to say that in academia, a PhD is like a nose- it's only noticeable if you don't have one.
If wisdomís ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls