Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 1087177 times)

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CharlieBraun

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3930 on: June 13, 2013, 06:04:23 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."
"We ate the pies."

Nikko-chan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3931 on: June 13, 2013, 06:12:38 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."

As in like, the character from the peanuts gang?

Mel the Redcap

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3932 on: June 13, 2013, 06:16:56 PM »
So does this mean when I complete my MBA in a couple months, it's not okay for me to insist everyone call me Master?

I have a MSc and my official job title is "Master" ;)

No, I'm no kidding. It's supposed to be short for Master Specialist, but it honestly is just "Master".

Considering I have, on occasion, made my children call me "Great Creator" I really can't see why you would pass up the opportunity to be called Master. At least occasionally. For fun. You know you want to... >:D

This is the most awesome thing I've heard in months.  Do you mind if I steal it?  Also, since I have a masters in mathematics, is it okay to insist on being called "Master" as well?  The difference these things could make in my life...

Mistress of Math?  Mistress of Mathematics? 

Or if you are male - Master of Mathematics. 

Get a long black scarf with white numerals and various mathematical signs knitted (or crocheted) into it.  Or printed, if it is fleece.  I've seen something similar with ABCs and 123s for back to school.  I wonder if there is a more academically advanced version?

Mathter.

I knew there was a reason I bookmarked this.  >:D http://notalwayslearning.com/math-exercise-dividers-of-theoden/30451
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CharlieBraun

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3933 on: June 13, 2013, 06:22:26 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."

Not his real name, NyChan.  I didn't want to publicly out/embarrass him (any more than he embarrassed himself.)

And yes, he really was...and yes, he autographed his book for us.  Gratis.  He was a nice guy just.....wow, what an introduction.
"We ate the pies."

DottyG

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3934 on: June 13, 2013, 07:08:39 PM »
Actually, I can see why he'd do that.  He's probably gotten the "HEY!  Did you know you have the same name as that guy that writes the books?! How weird is that?!  Have you ever met him?" so many times that he's found a way to just get over that hump from the get-go.

I mean, if you were Stephen King, I bet you'd finally get tired of having to do the little dance with the name thing and just want to get to the point and get it over with.  Yes, I'm him.  Yes, I'll sign your book.  Yes, it's great to meet you!  I'm glad to be here.  I just want to be a regular person as well as the author sometimes, though, so let's get this out of the way now.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3935 on: June 13, 2013, 07:16:15 PM »
ough? That's what I don't get. How is Dr any different from Mrs or Mr? Why is it fine to introduce myself as Ms. Grancalla, but introducing myself as Dr. Grancalla makes me rude/demanding/SS? It makes no sense to me.

Why? Because it's pretentious. It's insisting on a hierarchy where it isn't relevant. In a casual interaction, say with a clerk, it's extremely inappropriate and speaks volumes about the insecurity of the person insisting on it. Someone needing to have a store clerk acknowledge their academic achievement is in need of some help (and a big dose of humility.)

Ms. Grancalla is a social peer to Miss Demeanor, Mrs. Steak and Mr. Roberts; those titles don't denote much beyond gender and possibly marital status. In a social situation, that's appropriate. With a doctorate, you may be my superior in your field (I lack any advanced degree) but when we are meeting in a social situation, that superiority isn't relevant and shouldn't be insisted upon.

This is it exactly.  It's not that other people will feel bad that they aren't as cool as you, it's that you're telling them you're better than them, not because you have a degree but because they're all going casually by their given names and you're trotting around your earned one like you're something special and of note when they aren't because they're just using their given names. 

All you's general.
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RegionMom

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3936 on: June 13, 2013, 07:49:53 PM »
That's it!

The two that I mentioned, parents of my kids' friends, introduced themselves as parents, in a parental casual setting, not as educated doctorate holders. 

It would be odd to call someone "Dr. Xyz" while they were in a swimsuit while holding a drink with a paper umbrella.

btw, my brother IS a medical doctor, but to me he is still a bratty little brother who happened to marry a very nice girl.  He does not advertise his status in casual conversation because then he gets inundated with "my blank hurts/what otc med do you prefer for y/can I get a referral for Z/etc..."

Honestly, his favorite title is Daddy. 
:)
And he is a very good one!
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Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3937 on: June 13, 2013, 07:52:57 PM »

I'll go ahead and ask, because it bothers me. Why is "telling everyone about it" bad?
It's bizarre to me that so many think simply using a title that one worked for and legitimately earned is bad etiquette (not to mention the catty PhDs-aren't-that-smart-anyway sniping later in the thread. Really? On an etiquette board?). I've seen this attitude come out just about any time PhDs, among other things, are mentioned. The consensus seems to be that we're* not allowed to even mention our accomplishments because that's "bragging" and people who haven't done the same might feel baaaad about themselves, and I don't understand the thought process behind that.
Telling everyone about it is bad, no matter what 'it' is...because it's bragging. To go around correcting the innocent mistakes of others in a haughty manner is also rude. When someone makes a huge deal about having a Ph.D., or insists on using the title in settings where it is by tradition not used, it conveys the impression of 'I am due greater respect and deference than you, you lowly peon.'
Personally, I agree with the Ph.D.s aren't that smart observation. In my doc program, it wasn't the smartest people who finished, or the stupidest ones who dropped out: it was, as the other poster said, more a matter of determination and persistence (barring family crises). Since then, working in academia, I've met people who had Ph.D.s and who didn't demonstrate much common sense, or quickness of wit.  I've worked with lecturers who would have rated in the top 10% of the smartest people I've known- but who never attended a doc program. So when it comes to just knowing that someone has a Ph.D., that fact alone conveys relatively little information to me about how intelligent or knowledgeable they are. And yes, in my first job, I worked with a former department chair who had told the one and only Ph.D. in the department that he was not to use the title, because it made the chair look bad. (Actually, his actions pretty much conveyed that impression, but I digress).

Suppose a woman was going around correcting everyone that she was MRS. Smith, not Ms. Smith. Would you think, 'Well, marriage is hard work, she deserves to be respected for the work she's done' ? Or would you think that she was less than charming, and implying that single women were somehow inferior? Wouldn't your impression depend upon tone of voice and body posture, and the graciousness of the correction? It's the same for correcting a Mr. or Ms. into Dr.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3938 on: June 13, 2013, 07:55:38 PM »


A professor who wants to be called, "Dr. Martin" by their students? No problem. 
You rang?  ;D

NyaChan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3939 on: June 13, 2013, 08:01:49 PM »

I'll go ahead and ask, because it bothers me. Why is "telling everyone about it" bad?
It's bizarre to me that so many think simply using a title that one worked for and legitimately earned is bad etiquette (not to mention the catty PhDs-aren't-that-smart-anyway sniping later in the thread. Really? On an etiquette board?). I've seen this attitude come out just about any time PhDs, among other things, are mentioned. The consensus seems to be that we're* not allowed to even mention our accomplishments because that's "bragging" and people who haven't done the same might feel baaaad about themselves, and I don't understand the thought process behind that.
Telling everyone about it is bad, no matter what 'it' is...because it's bragging. To go around correcting the innocent mistakes of others in a haughty manner is also rude. When someone makes a huge deal about having a Ph.D., or insists on using the title in settings where it is by tradition not used, it conveys the impression of 'I am due greater respect and deference than you, you lowly peon.'
Personally, I agree with the Ph.D.s aren't that smart observation. In my doc program, it wasn't the smartest people who finished, or the stupidest ones who dropped out: it was, as the other poster said, more a matter of determination and persistence (barring family crises). Since then, working in academia, I've met people who had Ph.D.s and who didn't demonstrate much common sense, or quickness of wit.  I've worked with lecturers who would have rated in the top 10% of the smartest people I've known- but who never attended a doc program. So when it comes to just knowing that someone has a Ph.D., that fact alone conveys relatively little information to me about how intelligent or knowledgeable they are. And yes, in my first job, I worked with a former department chair who had told the one and only Ph.D. in the department that he was not to use the title, because it made the chair look bad. (Actually, his actions pretty much conveyed that impression, but I digress).

Suppose a woman was going around correcting everyone that she was MRS. Smith, not Ms. Smith. Would you think, 'Well, marriage is hard work, she deserves to be respected for the work she's done' ? Or would you think that she was less than charming, and implying that single women were somehow inferior? Wouldn't your impression depend upon tone of voice and body posture, and the graciousness of the correction? It's the same for correcting a Mr. or Ms. into Dr.

I would think she was correcting a factual mistake.  Correcting someone who calls you Ms. because you prefer Mrs. is in no way an attempt to imply anyone else is inferior.  If I heard someone saying they thought that someone who asked to be called Mrs. was implying that, I'd think the person pointing something like that out was insecure about being single to infer such a thing from so simple a correction.  Not the same thing at all - I don't see why people can't go by their title of Dr. if they prefer it, but there are ways of doing it that are under the radar and then there is a way of going about it that is more akin to hitting people over the head with it.   

Shalamar

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3940 on: June 13, 2013, 08:22:10 PM »
This is reminding me a bit of that recent story about John Malcovich helping an injured man.   The man and his wife, not recognizing him, asked his name - and he said simply "John."   I love that.  Kind of like the anti-Troy MacLure.

RooRoo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3941 on: June 13, 2013, 08:30:36 PM »
While I've enjoyed most of this discussion about titles, could we please start a separate thread? We're waaaay off topic!

 :-\ Missing my PD
"Someday we must write a book of Etiquette for sensible people," said Mrs. Morland, "though apart from a few rules it really boils down to an educated mind and a kind heart." ~ Angela Thirkell, Never Too Late

Winterlight

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3942 on: June 13, 2013, 08:31:27 PM »


A professor who wants to be called, "Dr. Martin" by their students? No problem. 
You rang?  ;D

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Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3943 on: June 13, 2013, 08:31:50 PM »
Can we hear more PD stories?  Maybe the etiquette of when it is appropriate to use titles could be spun off into its own thread. :-\

(RooRoo - We posted the same thing at the same time!  Great minds think alike)
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bo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3944 on: June 13, 2013, 09:20:02 PM »
Back to PD stories....My husband's company is interviewing for Sr. and Jr. developers.

Per company policy, all interviewees take a quick test. It's like 5 questions and the company likes to look at the answers to see their thought process. Pretty standard. This might be SS, but putting it here because  it was more PD.

Interviewee threw a fit! A ranting temper tantrum! Ranting things like "This is beneath me!", "Haven't you read my resume?" "This is below my skill level". They escorted him out.