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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 4286145 times)

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Nikko-chan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3870 on: June 13, 2013, 04:33:10 PM »
I'll go ahead and ask, because it bothers me. Why is "telling everyone about it" bad?
It's bizarre to me that so many think simply using a title that one worked for and legitimately earned is bad etiquette (not to mention the catty PhDs-aren't-that-smart-anyway sniping later in the thread. Really? On an etiquette board?). I've seen this attitude come out just about any time PhDs, among other things, are mentioned. The consensus seems to be that we're* not allowed to even mention our accomplishments because that's "bragging" and people who haven't done the same might feel baaaad about themselves, and I don't understand the thought process behind that.

*Technically, it's not "we", yet, but I'm working on it.


A professor who wants to be called, "Dr. Martin" by their students? No problem. Mentioning your degree when it's relevent? No problem. Demanding that everyone you meet, including the cashier at the gas station, call you Doctor? Rude, whether you're an MD or a PhD.

That... though I might not call it rude per se... a little... off maybe?

I think it feels a little off to me because if you are at a party or whatever and you say "Hi I'm Doctor Martin" people might look at you funny, but if you say "Hi I'm June." you're fine, because saying "Hi I'm Doctor Martin" kinda elevates you above everyone else, if that makes sense?

*inviteseller

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3871 on: June 13, 2013, 04:34:47 PM »
I saw the video of the woman having the epic meltdown in Dunkin Donuts this morning and my jaw is still on the floor!  The fact that she made the decision to film herself threatening these poor minimum wage employees over a receipt made my brain hurt.  I loveloveloved it when the employees just ignored her and her temper tantrum, even when she got vile and made racist comments.  And she told her attorney?  Did she tell him she was going to attempt to get herself arrested for disorderly conduct?  If I was an employee there I would have called the police ASAP!

artk2002

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3872 on: June 13, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »
ough? That's what I don't get. How is Dr any different from Mrs or Mr? Why is it fine to introduce myself as Ms. Grancalla, but introducing myself as Dr. Grancalla makes me rude/demanding/SS? It makes no sense to me.

Why? Because it's pretentious. It's insisting on a hierarchy where it isn't relevant. In a casual interaction, say with a clerk, it's extremely inappropriate and speaks volumes about the insecurity of the person insisting on it. Someone needing to have a store clerk acknowledge their academic achievement is in need of some help (and a big dose of humility.)

Ms. Grancalla is a social peer to Miss Demeanor, Mrs. Steak and Mr. Roberts; those titles don't denote much beyond gender and possibly marital status. In a social situation, that's appropriate. With a doctorate, you may be my superior in your field (I lack any advanced degree) but when we are meeting in a social situation, that superiority isn't relevant and shouldn't be insisted upon.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Hillia

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3873 on: June 13, 2013, 04:39:45 PM »
I saw the video of the woman having the epic meltdown in Dunkin Donuts this morning and my jaw is still on the floor!  The fact that she made the decision to film herself threatening these poor minimum wage employees over a receipt made my brain hurt.  I loveloveloved it when the employees just ignored her and her temper tantrum, even when she got vile and made racist comments.  And she told her attorney?  Did she tell him she was going to attempt to get herself arrested for disorderly conduct?  If I was an employee there I would have called the police ASAP!
[/quote

I have read that there's a website raising money for the two employees as an apology from the non-racist idiots of the world.

Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3874 on: June 13, 2013, 04:46:25 PM »
So does this mean when I complete my MBA in a couple months, it's not okay for me to insist everyone call me Master?

I have a MSc and my official job title is "Master" ;)

No, I'm no kidding. It's supposed to be short for Master Specialist, but it honestly is just "Master".

Considering I have, on occasion, made my children call me "Great Creator" I really can't see why you would pass up the opportunity to be called Master. At least occasionally. For fun. You know you want to... >:D

This is the most awesome thing I've heard in months.  Do you mind if I steal it?  Also, since I have a masters in mathematics, is it okay to insist on being called "Master" as well?  The difference these things could make in my life...

Mistress of Math?  Mistress of Mathematics? 

Or if you are male - Master of Mathematics. 

Get a long black scarf with white numerals and various mathematical signs knitted (or crocheted) into it.  Or printed, if it is fleece.  I've seen something similar with ABCs and 123s for back to school.  I wonder if there is a more academically advanced version?

Mathter.
Location:
Philadelphia, PA

chigger

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3875 on: June 13, 2013, 04:50:00 PM »
Traska wins for the day! ;D

CharlieBraun

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3876 on: June 13, 2013, 05:04:23 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."
"We ate the pies."

Nikko-chan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3877 on: June 13, 2013, 05:12:38 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."

As in like, the character from the peanuts gang?

Mel the Redcap

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3878 on: June 13, 2013, 05:16:56 PM »
So does this mean when I complete my MBA in a couple months, it's not okay for me to insist everyone call me Master?

I have a MSc and my official job title is "Master" ;)

No, I'm no kidding. It's supposed to be short for Master Specialist, but it honestly is just "Master".

Considering I have, on occasion, made my children call me "Great Creator" I really can't see why you would pass up the opportunity to be called Master. At least occasionally. For fun. You know you want to... >:D

This is the most awesome thing I've heard in months.  Do you mind if I steal it?  Also, since I have a masters in mathematics, is it okay to insist on being called "Master" as well?  The difference these things could make in my life...

Mistress of Math?  Mistress of Mathematics? 

Or if you are male - Master of Mathematics. 

Get a long black scarf with white numerals and various mathematical signs knitted (or crocheted) into it.  Or printed, if it is fleece.  I've seen something similar with ABCs and 123s for back to school.  I wonder if there is a more academically advanced version?

Mathter.

I knew there was a reason I bookmarked this.  >:D http://notalwayslearning.com/math-exercise-dividers-of-theoden/30451
"Set aphasia to stun!"

CharlieBraun

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3879 on: June 13, 2013, 05:22:26 PM »

I don't see why someone who has earned that distinction shouldn't get to use it. I would think "I'm Bob Green, PhD, here to pick up my son Timmy" would be over the top; but I don't see anything wrong with "Hi, I'm Dr Green, pleased to meet you" or "....Thanks for your email. Let's conduct your newspaper interview about my specialty at the local cafe....respectfully, Dr Bob Green"

I had a new neighbor who introduced himself "Hi I'm NY Times best selling author Linus Van Pelt."

Not his real name, NyChan.  I didn't want to publicly out/embarrass him (any more than he embarrassed himself.)

And yes, he really was...and yes, he autographed his book for us.  Gratis.  He was a nice guy just.....wow, what an introduction.
"We ate the pies."

DottyG

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3880 on: June 13, 2013, 06:08:39 PM »
Actually, I can see why he'd do that.  He's probably gotten the "HEY!  Did you know you have the same name as that guy that writes the books?! How weird is that?!  Have you ever met him?" so many times that he's found a way to just get over that hump from the get-go.

I mean, if you were Stephen King, I bet you'd finally get tired of having to do the little dance with the name thing and just want to get to the point and get it over with.  Yes, I'm him.  Yes, I'll sign your book.  Yes, it's great to meet you!  I'm glad to be here.  I just want to be a regular person as well as the author sometimes, though, so let's get this out of the way now.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3881 on: June 13, 2013, 06:16:15 PM »
ough? That's what I don't get. How is Dr any different from Mrs or Mr? Why is it fine to introduce myself as Ms. Grancalla, but introducing myself as Dr. Grancalla makes me rude/demanding/SS? It makes no sense to me.

Why? Because it's pretentious. It's insisting on a hierarchy where it isn't relevant. In a casual interaction, say with a clerk, it's extremely inappropriate and speaks volumes about the insecurity of the person insisting on it. Someone needing to have a store clerk acknowledge their academic achievement is in need of some help (and a big dose of humility.)

Ms. Grancalla is a social peer to Miss Demeanor, Mrs. Steak and Mr. Roberts; those titles don't denote much beyond gender and possibly marital status. In a social situation, that's appropriate. With a doctorate, you may be my superior in your field (I lack any advanced degree) but when we are meeting in a social situation, that superiority isn't relevant and shouldn't be insisted upon.

This is it exactly.  It's not that other people will feel bad that they aren't as cool as you, it's that you're telling them you're better than them, not because you have a degree but because they're all going casually by their given names and you're trotting around your earned one like you're something special and of note when they aren't because they're just using their given names. 

All you's general.

RegionMom

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3882 on: June 13, 2013, 06:49:53 PM »
That's it!

The two that I mentioned, parents of my kids' friends, introduced themselves as parents, in a parental casual setting, not as educated doctorate holders. 

It would be odd to call someone "Dr. Xyz" while they were in a swimsuit while holding a drink with a paper umbrella.

btw, my brother IS a medical doctor, but to me he is still a bratty little brother who happened to marry a very nice girl.  He does not advertise his status in casual conversation because then he gets inundated with "my blank hurts/what otc med do you prefer for y/can I get a referral for Z/etc..."

Honestly, his favorite title is Daddy. 
:)
And he is a very good one!
Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3883 on: June 13, 2013, 06:52:57 PM »

I'll go ahead and ask, because it bothers me. Why is "telling everyone about it" bad?
It's bizarre to me that so many think simply using a title that one worked for and legitimately earned is bad etiquette (not to mention the catty PhDs-aren't-that-smart-anyway sniping later in the thread. Really? On an etiquette board?). I've seen this attitude come out just about any time PhDs, among other things, are mentioned. The consensus seems to be that we're* not allowed to even mention our accomplishments because that's "bragging" and people who haven't done the same might feel baaaad about themselves, and I don't understand the thought process behind that.
Telling everyone about it is bad, no matter what 'it' is...because it's bragging. To go around correcting the innocent mistakes of others in a haughty manner is also rude. When someone makes a huge deal about having a Ph.D., or insists on using the title in settings where it is by tradition not used, it conveys the impression of 'I am due greater respect and deference than you, you lowly peon.'
Personally, I agree with the Ph.D.s aren't that smart observation. In my doc program, it wasn't the smartest people who finished, or the stupidest ones who dropped out: it was, as the other poster said, more a matter of determination and persistence (barring family crises). Since then, working in academia, I've met people who had Ph.D.s and who didn't demonstrate much common sense, or quickness of wit.  I've worked with lecturers who would have rated in the top 10% of the smartest people I've known- but who never attended a doc program. So when it comes to just knowing that someone has a Ph.D., that fact alone conveys relatively little information to me about how intelligent or knowledgeable they are. And yes, in my first job, I worked with a former department chair who had told the one and only Ph.D. in the department that he was not to use the title, because it made the chair look bad. (Actually, his actions pretty much conveyed that impression, but I digress).

Suppose a woman was going around correcting everyone that she was MRS. Smith, not Ms. Smith. Would you think, 'Well, marriage is hard work, she deserves to be respected for the work she's done' ? Or would you think that she was less than charming, and implying that single women were somehow inferior? Wouldn't your impression depend upon tone of voice and body posture, and the graciousness of the correction? It's the same for correcting a Mr. or Ms. into Dr.

Jocelyn

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3884 on: June 13, 2013, 06:55:38 PM »


A professor who wants to be called, "Dr. Martin" by their students? No problem. 
You rang?  ;D