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Author Topic: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74  (Read 4284653 times)

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NyaChan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3885 on: June 13, 2013, 07:01:49 PM »

I'll go ahead and ask, because it bothers me. Why is "telling everyone about it" bad?
It's bizarre to me that so many think simply using a title that one worked for and legitimately earned is bad etiquette (not to mention the catty PhDs-aren't-that-smart-anyway sniping later in the thread. Really? On an etiquette board?). I've seen this attitude come out just about any time PhDs, among other things, are mentioned. The consensus seems to be that we're* not allowed to even mention our accomplishments because that's "bragging" and people who haven't done the same might feel baaaad about themselves, and I don't understand the thought process behind that.
Telling everyone about it is bad, no matter what 'it' is...because it's bragging. To go around correcting the innocent mistakes of others in a haughty manner is also rude. When someone makes a huge deal about having a Ph.D., or insists on using the title in settings where it is by tradition not used, it conveys the impression of 'I am due greater respect and deference than you, you lowly peon.'
Personally, I agree with the Ph.D.s aren't that smart observation. In my doc program, it wasn't the smartest people who finished, or the stupidest ones who dropped out: it was, as the other poster said, more a matter of determination and persistence (barring family crises). Since then, working in academia, I've met people who had Ph.D.s and who didn't demonstrate much common sense, or quickness of wit.  I've worked with lecturers who would have rated in the top 10% of the smartest people I've known- but who never attended a doc program. So when it comes to just knowing that someone has a Ph.D., that fact alone conveys relatively little information to me about how intelligent or knowledgeable they are. And yes, in my first job, I worked with a former department chair who had told the one and only Ph.D. in the department that he was not to use the title, because it made the chair look bad. (Actually, his actions pretty much conveyed that impression, but I digress).

Suppose a woman was going around correcting everyone that she was MRS. Smith, not Ms. Smith. Would you think, 'Well, marriage is hard work, she deserves to be respected for the work she's done' ? Or would you think that she was less than charming, and implying that single women were somehow inferior? Wouldn't your impression depend upon tone of voice and body posture, and the graciousness of the correction? It's the same for correcting a Mr. or Ms. into Dr.

I would think she was correcting a factual mistake.  Correcting someone who calls you Ms. because you prefer Mrs. is in no way an attempt to imply anyone else is inferior.  If I heard someone saying they thought that someone who asked to be called Mrs. was implying that, I'd think the person pointing something like that out was insecure about being single to infer such a thing from so simple a correction.  Not the same thing at all - I don't see why people can't go by their title of Dr. if they prefer it, but there are ways of doing it that are under the radar and then there is a way of going about it that is more akin to hitting people over the head with it.   

RooRoo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3886 on: June 13, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »
While I've enjoyed most of this discussion about titles, could we please start a separate thread? We're waaaay off topic!

 :-\ Missing my PD
For in the fatness of these pursy times
Virtue itself of vice must pardon beg,
Yea, curb and woo for leave to do him good.
     Hamlet, Act 3, scene 4, lines 144-146
       (Pursy: wheezing)

Winterlight

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3887 on: June 13, 2013, 07:31:27 PM »


A professor who wants to be called, "Dr. Martin" by their students? No problem. 
You rang?  ;D

*g*
If wisdomís ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

Midnight Kitty

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3888 on: June 13, 2013, 07:31:50 PM »
Can we hear more PD stories?  Maybe the etiquette of when it is appropriate to use titles could be spun off into its own thread. :-\

(RooRoo - We posted the same thing at the same time!  Great minds think alike)
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.  The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

Marcus Aurelius

bo

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3889 on: June 13, 2013, 08:20:02 PM »
Back to PD stories....My husband's company is interviewing for Sr. and Jr. developers.

Per company policy, all interviewees take a quick test. It's like 5 questions and the company likes to look at the answers to see their thought process. Pretty standard. This might be SS, but putting it here because  it was more PD.

Interviewee threw a fit! A ranting temper tantrum! Ranting things like "This is beneath me!", "Haven't you read my resume?" "This is below my skill level". They escorted him out.

Nikko-chan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3890 on: June 13, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »
Back to PD stories....My husband's company is interviewing for Sr. and Jr. developers.

Per company policy, all interviewees take a quick test. It's like 5 questions and the company likes to look at the answers to see their thought process. Pretty standard. This might be SS, but putting it here because  it was more PD.

Interviewee threw a fit! A ranting temper tantrum! Ranting things like "This is beneath me!", "Haven't you read my resume?" "This is below my skill level". They escorted him out.

Someone needs to write a book filled with stories and title it: How not to get a job. This story should be in there.

NyaChan

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3891 on: June 13, 2013, 08:35:20 PM »
Back to PD stories....My husband's company is interviewing for Sr. and Jr. developers.

Per company policy, all interviewees take a quick test. It's like 5 questions and the company likes to look at the answers to see their thought process. Pretty standard. This might be SS, but putting it here because  it was more PD.

Interviewee threw a fit! A ranting temper tantrum! Ranting things like "This is beneath me!", "Haven't you read my resume?" "This is below my skill level". They escorted him out.

"You are right sir.  We are clearly unworthy of your presence.  Here, let us help you find the door."

cass2591

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3892 on: June 13, 2013, 08:43:30 PM »
Seems to me that Grancalla thinks she/he is better than us. If the OP had been even remotely interested in other opinions I would have pointed out that Miss Manners objects to the practice the OP was so adamant about, but why waste my time?

ET to fix my first sentence that made no sense.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 09:28:33 PM by cass2591 »
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greencat

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3893 on: June 13, 2013, 09:06:26 PM »
My newest coworker may be trying for PD after only a few weeks on a job.  While some of the mistakes he has been making are of the "well, he's new, needs a little more training," variety, some of them are definitely not.

1) We support a couple different "classes" of users.  One group are more or less customers, the other are the other employees of the organization.  The customer group is much, much, much bigger, and their files have a more restricted access level than those of employees.  Sometimes the users need to update certain information on their account using human intervention.  Human resources performs this service for current and former employees.  Another office performs it for current and former customers.  My new coworker has apparently been directing the customers to HR to have this task performed.  I'm not sure if he just doesn't understand what human resources actually does - I don't think he's ever worked somewhere with an HR department before.  He has made a few other "What planet are you from that you thought that was correct?" errors, but that was the most egregious.

2) He has been hanging up on people and otherwise being a bit rude and unprofessional.  We are required to write our outgoing emails in a professional manner and his were riddled with errors and poor grammar and slang.  He has also evidently been handling some incoming "calls" on our chat service by just telling the users to call in by phone and then closing out the chat, instead of helping them with their issue (the chat service is actually really great when you need to consult on things while you're in training, because the user can't hear you talking and expects some delays!) or explaining why we needed to actually speak with the person to provide the help that they wanted.

3) He has completely failed to respond to some messages sent by customers that he indicated that he was handling - we mark incoming messages and pull them into our own inboxes which are still visible to the rest of the reps, and several messages that required a response of some kind never got one. 

I did bring the matter to the attention of the supervisors couched as "He needs more training" because he did, indeed, apparently not get a bit of the training that I was provided, and I hope he shapes up, because we're dragging enough dead weight as it is and my supervisors are sadly unlikely to fire him because they hate the hiring process.

MizA

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3894 on: June 13, 2013, 09:56:20 PM »
I'm currently in a rather intense back-to-work post-injury rehab programme. We're assigned a care team who check up on us regularly to ensure we're actually making an effort to rehabilitate well enough to get back to work. If we are kicked out of the programme, we may not have work to return to.

Well, it was interesting to see one of the fellows get kicked out this week. For pulling out an exercise mat and using it to nap on. On the floor. Of the gym. In front of the entire team of physios, OTs, MDs and kinestheologists.


)'( The world would rather hug you than hurt you )'(

WolfWay

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3895 on: June 13, 2013, 11:44:20 PM »
Back to PD stories....My husband's company is interviewing for Sr. and Jr. developers.

Per company policy, all interviewees take a quick test. It's like 5 questions and the company likes to look at the answers to see their thought process. Pretty standard. This might be SS, but putting it here because  it was more PD.

Interviewee threw a fit! A ranting temper tantrum! Ranting things like "This is beneath me!", "Haven't you read my resume?" "This is below my skill level". They escorted him out.

Someone needs to write a book filled with stories and title it: How not to get a job. This story should be in there.
I was asked to sit in as a technical consultant on an interview for a new developer at my company. The candidate had come from a teaching job. We asked him to draw a certain type of technical diagram that would describe how an ATM machine works (just to see if he can conceptualise processes). He proceeded to not actually draw the diagram of the ATM, but rather to lecture us as to how that particular type of technical diagram should be drawn (in a general sense).

It's like if we had asked him to draw two stick figures passing a ball from one to the other,  and he proceeded to lecture us as to how a circle is used to represent the head and the ball and depending on vertical placement relative to the body how we can tell the difference between the two, and how you use lines for the body and arms, but without at any point drawing us anything involving two stick figures or a ball.
<3

TeamBhakta

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3896 on: June 14, 2013, 08:38:52 AM »
I don't know if this is considered special snowflake or professional darwinism. Either way, if you lie to immigration about your WW II activities, it probably isn't smart to write a Ukrainian-language memoir about it in 1995

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-impact-commander-ss-led-unit-living-us-101016457.html

mbbored

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3897 on: June 14, 2013, 10:01:30 AM »
That's it!

The two that I mentioned, parents of my kids' friends, introduced themselves as parents, in a parental casual setting, not as educated doctorate holders. 

It would be odd to call someone "Dr. Xyz" while they were in a swimsuit while holding a drink with a paper umbrella.

btw, my brother IS a medical doctor, but to me he is still a bratty little brother who happened to marry a very nice girl.  He does not advertise his status in casual conversation because then he gets inundated with "my blank hurts/what otc med do you prefer for y/can I get a referral for Z/etc..."

Honestly, his favorite title is Daddy. 
:)
And he is a very good one!

But I don't think it's bragging in that social situation if somebody asks you what you do and you say "Doctor" or "professor" or "scientist."

Thipu1

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3898 on: June 14, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »
So much depends on context. 

Wearing a swimsuit and holding a drink with a paper umbrella calls for an introduction of 'Jim Smith'.  If the conversation goes further, it's perfectly fine for Jim to mention that he's a gastroenterologist or a Professor at X Universiy. 

In our experience, immediately letting it be known that you're a Doctor or a PhD in a relaxed social setting seems to expect a bit of forelock-tugging from lesser mortals.  It's unnecessary, it's pretentious and it puts a damper on the possible fun of getting to know Jim. 

RegionMom

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Re: Professional Darwinism: Update to OP on p.74
« Reply #3899 on: June 14, 2013, 12:13:23 PM »
Or if we are having a parent meeting at school for organizing a class event, and one parent pops in with, "I cannot do the petting zoo because my doctor hands are too delicate and anyway, I can't do it that day because I have to perform a surgery scheduled for that time!"  instead of, "ok, Jane will take face painting, and Bob will take ball toss.  Now let's talk about snack ideas."

Tossing in a title just for the purpose of what most would read as pompousness is annoying.  I would much rather work a school event with "Christie, John's mom who is making gluten free brownies and likes horses, so much more than working with Doctor Jones who will correct every group rotation that stops by the sack races. 

"Hi, Susie's mom!"
"Actually, it is Dr. Jones."
"oh, can I just take my turn now?"

when I work at a school, in front of the students we call each other Mrs. Brown, Miss Smith, Dr. Jones.  When it is alone in the teacher workroom or after school, we are Janice, Blythe, and Robert. 
If Robert insisted we call him Dr. Jones, we would not be offering to share workroom treats with him so much, because friends tend to call each other by first names, not titles. 

A title is a sign of respect, and keeps a professional distance.  if someone insists on tossing up that barrier, in non-professional settings, so be it.  (pool parties, grocery store, school kid event, walking the dog) But understand that (general) you may be missing out on some great potential friendships and learning opportunities.

Speaking of schools, there may be a newish teacher slowly walking a path of PD--

she comes in late daily, and the other teachers notice.  She tends to leave early, also.  She does not attend special events, even though she has been asked to.  All teachers share space, yet she has demanded that her room be kept empty even after school when co-curricular events and tutoring occur all over campus.  she has had other teachers change their schedules to accommodate her.  her clothing is a bit 'sexy' in nature, at this conservative school.  her workload has been cut a fair bit, but she still appears very stressed.  She was chosen as a darling candidate for this position, so it may still take a while for her PD steps to be fully recognized. 




Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.